I'm confused. Matthew 1:24-25

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It does not matter to me whether Mary remained a virgin or not. What is important is to heed the apostles’ exhortations to, “continue in the faith” (Acts 14:22) – that “ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3).
Yes, hold to what the Apostles teach “by word of mouth or by letter”… Tradition tells us she remained a virgin and this does not contradict scripture. Just looking at the words on the page 2,000 years after the fact will lead to much confusion. As we now see in the Protestant world.
 
Are you saying the scriptures tell us everything God told Mary and Joseph?
The failure of sola scriptura. The most thoroughly disproven and yet most clung-to doctrine in world history - other than “government assistance” that is…
 
The word “until” means “up to that time, before a specified time.” It does not imply relations after the birth of Jesus. Greek phrase “not until” (heos hou) is a saying or phrase that only describes past events, not future events. It has nothing to do with Joseph’s relationship with Mary after she bore her Son. The word “until” is only what is done focusing on that time, without any regard to the future.
 
Matthew is trying to establish that there’s no way that Joseph was Jesus’ natural father, so he’s pointing out that there was no physical intercourse between Mary and Joseph prior to Jesus’ birth.

Moreover, the word in the original Greek implies only that “up until” that time there was no intercourse; the usage of that preposition doesn’t imply anything at all about what happened after (which we, as Catholics, assert that there continued to be no physical intercourse between Mary and Joseph).
So basically what your saying is that Joseph was just Joseph until Jesus was born, then he became his father right?
 
Matthew is trying to establish that there’s no way that Joseph was Jesus’ natural father, so he’s pointing out that there was no physical intercourse between Mary and Joseph prior to Jesus’ birth.

Moreover, the word in the original Greek implies only that “up until” that time there was no intercourse; the usage of that preposition doesn’t imply anything at all about what happened after (which we, as Catholics, assert that there continued to be no physical intercourse between Mary and Joseph).
So what you are saying is that Joseph was just Joseph until he named Jesus, THEN he was his father right?
 
What possible difference could it make if Mary and Joseph–married in the eyes of God and their families–lived as husband and wife and had a normal physical relationship? (I was going to say, "What conceivable difference could it make, but…🙂
 
What possible difference could it make if Mary and Joseph–married in the eyes of God and their families–lived as husband and wife and had a normal physical relationship? (I was going to say, "What conceivable difference could it make, but…🙂
First, if you believe anything - anything at all - that the Catholic Church holds as revealed truth, you must also give assent to this teaching. I will not cave to pressure from the disobedient to veer off the path of revealed truth.

What has happened to protestantism in the past 400 years? It was born believing in Mary’s perpetual virginity. Then, a spirit influenced it to lower her status in some eyes to that of a randomly chosen woman of no other import. We know from John 1:1-3 that all created things came into being through Jesus Christ. This includes the very mother that was first conceived of in the mind of God, then brought to flesh for the singular purpose of ensuring that the throne of David would be passed to the divine and eternal descendant of David - God’s only begotten Son.

The purpose of the attack on the mother that Jesus chose for Himself may be demonic in origin, or may exist simply to serve one’s ego in being anti-Catholic. Frankly, I see little difference between the two.
 
The word “until” means “up to that time, before a specified time.” It does not imply relations after the birth of Jesus. Greek phrase “not until” (heos hou) is a saying or phrase that only describes past events, not future events. It has nothing to do with Joseph’s relationship with Mary after she bore her Son. The word “until” is only what is done focusing on that time, without any regard to the future.
I have proof that Jesus will not be with us in eternity - nor we with Him. It’s in the bible, so it must be true:

Matthew 28:20
King James Version (KJV)
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I think this is entirely clear. He is only with us now, and will not be after the end of the world.
 
First, if you believe anything - anything at all - that the Catholic Church holds as revealed truth, you must also give assent to this teaching. I will not cave to pressure from the disobedient to veer off the path of revealed truth.
I believe many of the things the Catholic Church teaches. If someone is trying to pressure you from the path of truth, I am hopeful that your deep faith will protect you from the Screwtapes and Wormwoods of the world.

With that said, I have found the topic of Mary’s post-birth virginity to be less than important in my relationship with Jesus, and my understanding of God. Others feel differently.
 
I believe many of the things the Catholic Church teaches. If someone is trying to pressure you from the path of truth, I am hopeful that your deep faith will protect you from the Screwtapes and Wormwoods of the world.

With that said, I have found the topic of Mary’s post-birth virginity to be less than important in my relationship with Jesus, and my understanding of God. Others feel differently.
Truth is a seamless garment. Tear one bit and it will all unravel. Just saying…
 
Thank you for your concern. Peace to you on the Feast of St. Bridget.
 
I find it almost impossible to care about this particular topic, and I find it remarkable that anyone spends time thinking about it, John Calvin included. 🤷
 
I have proof that Jesus will not be with us in eternity - nor we with Him. It’s in the bible, so it must be true:

Matthew 28:20
King James Version (KJV)
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I think this is entirely clear. He is only with us now, and will not be after the end of the world.
Again, the word “until” can confuse some people. Here is another example in Matthew 28:20. When Jesus says He will be with us “until” the end of the world, “until” refers to the past only; it doesn’t mean Jesus won’t be with us after the end of the world.
 
I find it almost impossible to care about this particular topic, and I find it remarkable that anyone spends time thinking about it, John Calvin included. 🤷
Since you call yourself Catholic, and I have no doubt that physically you are a member of the Church, please consider that the Church considers it part of God’s revealed truth. It has been declared definitively. I do not blame you for having difficulty with it - I did for years. But, I would not dismiss a portion of revealed truth casually.

After believing the God created all that exists from nothing; after believing that Jesus was born with no earthly father, this should be a piece of cake. That a demon has lead an attack on this teaching should have no effect on your credulity whatsoever.

Do you have a catechism, or Catholicism for Dummies? Excellent reading for all Catholics, no matter their age of faithfulness.
 
Again, the word “until” can confuse some people. Here is another example in Matthew 28:20. When Jesus says He will be with us “until” the end of the world, “until” refers to the past only; it doesn’t mean Jesus won’t be with us after the end of the world.
I’m still looking for that “tongue-in-cheek” smiley.
 
Since you call yourself Catholic, and I have no doubt that physically you are a member of the Church, please consider that the Church considers it part of God’s revealed truth. It has been declared definitively. I do not blame you for having difficulty with it - I did for years. But, I would not dismiss a portion of revealed truth casually.

After believing the God created all that exists from nothing; after believing that Jesus was born with no earthly father, this should be a piece of cake. That a demon has lead an attack on this teaching should have no effect on your credulity whatsoever.

Do you have a catechism, or Catholicism for Dummies? Excellent reading for all Catholics, no matter their age of faithfulness.
Thank you, again, for your concern. I have indeed read Catholicism for Dummies, as well as the Catechism and about 100 other books about the Catholic faith. There are parts of our Catholic faith that speak to the depths of my soul. There are other parts that are not quite so compelling. Mary’s perpetual virginity is of the later category, I’m afraid. So be it.

Peace.
 
I find it almost impossible to care about this particular topic, and I find it remarkable that anyone spends time thinking about it, John Calvin included. 🤷
OK, so why are you in this thread then? Certainly not to attack the teaching, or to lead others away from their beliefs?

Following is a private revelation that erased my last objections to Mary’s perpetual virginity. A little language and culture study helps, and this was revealed to me at a Catholic bible study. In those days, a woman relied on her husband for support. When he died, the children then supported her. If she was childless, she was in dire straights, because she had no one to rely on for support. Even worse, society considered her to be cursed by God, who gave her no children. Such women were shunned, and suffered greatly, reduced to begging for subsistence.

Jesus had great love for widows. This was evidenced by the “widow’s mite” story in both Luke 21:1-4 and Mark 13:41-44. Christ was so impressed at the widow in the temple that he made a point of teaching His disciples about her selflessness, for the sake of God. Again, Jesus showed His great love for the widow in Luke 7:11. When He and his entourage met the funeral party leaving the gates of the city of Nain, He took Heavenly pity upon the now childless widow who was enroute to bury her only son. He, as God in Christ, raised her only son to life and presented him to her. God raising an only Son to life. See any similarity?

Then, in John 19:26-27, Jesus’ last physical act on earth was to give Mary to John, telling him, “This is your mother” and saying to Mary, “This is your son”. Why did He do this at all, and why as He was dying on the cross? If Mary had any other children, they would have supported her for the remainder of her life - especially James, “the brother of the Lord” IF he was the second son of Mary. For Jesus to do this would have been a great insult and disrespect to Mary’s other children, IF SHE HAD ANY. There’s the rub! She had no other children to support her, as John “took her into his home from that hour”

As well, Jesus said “I will not leave you orphans” and neither would He leave His mother a widow without support. Does not the same principle that applies to the Apostles also apply to His own chosen mother?

Again, in the Aramaic, there was no word for “cousin”. So, “brother” and “sister” were used to describe various relatives. Remember that in some cultures, to this day, brother and sister can be used to address even those from the same town or village.

I do not expect this to sway you in your thinking, but it erased my doubt.
 
OK, so why are you in this thread then? Certainly not to attack the teaching, or to lead others away from their beliefs?
That’s an excellent question. I have no idea. I find the topic so silly I chimed in, which was an error. I will leave you know. Be well.
 
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