I'm getting tired of hearing from Protestants that we worship Mary and the saints!

[RobGentner]

**So for Catholics, what is the purpose of the Holy Spirit?**B]
Your answer is mostly gibberish.

**Spoken like a very intelligent:shrug: member of a extremely primitive culture **

I merely asked you what’s the purpose of the Holy Ghost for catholics. Well, now I know He serves no purpose to you. NO wonder you cannot reach God.

**
Now how did you "determine that “fact”? I asked you very nicely if you really wanted me to give you a dissertation on the Holy Spirit? I told you I could. But I asked how about I just say ~ He provides us with gifts?

YOU CALL GIFTS FROM THE HOLY SPIRIRT GIBBERISH?Or did I misunderstand you?
additionally I also said as the Third person of the Trinity ~ He is GOD
Because He is God, we can pray to Him, as we do the Father and Son.
We can Worship Him as we do the father and the Son

We don’t have to go through Jesus or The Holy Spirit to pray to GOD the Father . Each of the persons is Fully GOD."

NOW TFJ Please tell me EXACTLY Which part of that was gibberish? The parts you didn’t understand?Oh wait! :doh2: you said it was “mostly gibberish”. How sad! I will type it slower for you. :bounce:

So you really did want me to give you a dissertation on the Holy Spirit. All you had to do was ask, not insult me! :extrahappy:

Read s l o w l y

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit
by Rob Gentner

There are seven Gifts provided to each of us by the Holy Spirit. These gifts enable us to live holy, and christian life if we accept them.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are:

Wisdom - The desire for the things of God, and to direct our whole life and all our actions to His honor and glory
Understanding - This enables us to know more clearly the mysteries of faith
Counsel - We are warn about the deceits of the devil, and of the dangers to salvation
Fortitude - Provides us the strength to do the will of God in all things
Knowledge - This enables us to discover the will of God in all things
Piety - Provides us the desire to love God as a Father, and obey Him because we love Him
Fear of the Lord - Instills a dread of sin and fear of offending God

TFL Well time for a name change: You don’t tell the TRUTH ~ You don’t Explain your FAITH ~ and you darn sure do not display ~LOVE
My evil speaking child I think you should be ashamed of typing this:

Well, now I know He serves no purpose to you. NO wonder you cannot reach God.

---

There is no apology needed. As a Christian, I forgave you even as you type it and before I even read what the devil had put in your mind. God Bless you! ****

John 14:26 But the Counselor, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

** RobGentner says:
“You know well enough that our Lord does not look so much at the greatness of our actions, nor even at their difficulty, but at the love with which we do them.” – St. Therese of Lisieux ****

 

[Cinette]

The Catholic Belief in the Holy Spirit.

“All believers have access to the Father through Christ in the one Spirit” Eph 2:18.

Through Him the Father gives life to men who are dead from sin till at last he revives in Christ even their mortal bodies. (Rom 8:10-110

The Spirit dwells in the Church and in the hearts of the faithfull as in a temple. 1 Cor 3:16, 6:19. In us he prays and bears witness to the fact that we are adopted sons (Gal 4:6). The Spirit guides the Church into the fullness of truth (Jn16:13). By the power of the Gospel the Spirit makes the Church grow, perpetually renews her and leads her to perfect union with her Spouse (the Church). The Church shines forth as “a people made one with the unity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.”

How does He dwell in us Catholics? Our Church teaches that a person becomes a Christian and first receives the Holy Spirit through Faith and Baptism. Faith is essential for a mature Christian to receive the Spirit.

The Church also baptised babies even though they do not have Faith. For instance in the Bible Lydia was converted and baptised with ALL her household (Acts 13:15) which included children and also servants. “Repent and be baptised everyone of you. This promise is for you and your children…”(Acts 2:38-39)

We cannot function without the Holy Spirit. The H Spirit is our “operating system”. See what happens to your computer if your operating system goes bust!:yup:

 

[Cinette]

By the way…

The Charismatic Renewal in the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church has revived a dynamic renewal in the Spirit in millions worldwide - more than in any other Christian church, The gifts of prophesy, healing, praying in tongues and other gifts have come about as an explosion in the Church - just like in the early Church. WE ARE INDEED LIVING IN A NEW PENTECOST

The last several Popes have enthusiastically encouraged the movement.

VENI SANTE SPIRITU! :extrahappy: :harp:

 

[RNRobert]

Whether catholics are worshipping mary and the saints is another matter. But they are already openly violating COMMANDMENT 2.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

NO EXCUSES.

So, was God contradicting himself when he then told the Israelites to make the Ark of the Covenant with the cherubim on top, or to make a bronze serpent and have people who had been bitten by snakes look at it for healing?

 

[Truthfaithlove]

So, was God contradicting himself when he then told the Israelites to make the Ark of the Covenant with the cherubim on top, or to make a bronze serpent and have people who had been bitten by snakes look at it for healing?

ARE YOU GOD ?

 

[onenow1]

Here are four applicable verses from “The Magnificat”, the Canticle of Mary, from Luke 1:46-55…

Quote= onenow1, its really very simple, when you obey the word of God ! And these below are the words of God !

And Mary said,
“My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and Holy is His name.” Luke 1:46-49

Mary is the only person in the entire Bible to say “All generations will call me blessed”.

Now check your dictionary:
“Behold”, means to perceive visually and mentally, to comprehend, to understand what follows.
“Henceforth”, means from the time she said it until the end of time in an unbroken continuity. It does not mean, “some indefinite time in the future”, as I have been told.
“All generations”, means just that, all generations, yours, mine, and every generation for the last 2000 years and all of those future generations as well. Not one person is exempted.
“Will”, denotes a command and not a suggestion.
“Call me blessed”.
So far we have seen that Mary was called “Blessed” by the Father in Luke 1:28, and she was twice called “Blessed” by Elizabeth, being filled with the Holy Spirit, in Luke 1:42 and 45. Two persons of the Holy Trinity had already called Mary “Blessed”, and we are commanded to do likewise in Luke 1:48. When GOD called Mary “Blessed”, He venerated her. Since Holy Scripture was inspired by GOD, then aren’t Mary’s words here also inspired by GOD?
Would any one of us dare to do less?
As you can readily see, the Blessed Virgin Mary is closely intertwined with all three persons of the Holy Trinity. She is the daughter of the Father. She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit, and she is the mother of the Second Person, Jesus Christ.

Peace, onenow1

 

[RobHom]

**2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.**

And thus man did this…a prophecy came true…it happened in the 1500’s when the Reformation occurred. Look at all the “itching ears” that have listened to the false teachers and as a result separated from the Church Christ established!!

Yet when you speak to them the truth, they cannot hear. They have ears but cannot listen, have eyes but cannot see.

Very astute of you to say so… You being one who is deaf to truth, and blind to it as well.

.

 

[RobGentner]

By the way…

The Charismatic Renewal in the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church has revived a dynamic renewal in the Spirit in millions worldwide - more than in any other Christian church, The gifts of prophesy, healing, praying in tongues and other gifts have come about as an explosion in the Church - just like in the early Church. WE ARE INDEED LIVING IN A NEW PENTECOST

The last several Popes have enthusiastically encouraged the movement.

VENI SANTE SPIRITU! :extrahappy: :harp:

**
Cinette,

Hi,

I was “born again” in the Spirit in 1976.When I say that I have been accused of being “Protestant” . At that time, I had a religious experience and accepted Jesus as my personal lord and savior. It changed my life.The gifts of prophesy, healing, praying in tongues and other gifts people chaimed by others have eluded me. As I say they are gifts.I think I was given the gift of spotting hypocrites - just like in the early Church.

God Bless! **

 

[RobGentner]

ARE YOU GOD ?

**
Just because you “Shout” doesn’t make dumb questions seem smarter. :tsktsk: It is a good idea to keep your post short. :aok: No one can comment on your spelling or grammar. :extrahappy: WATCHING you!! :jrbirdman: **
TRY TO BE NICE!

 

[Cinette]

**
Just because you “Shout” doesn’t make dumb questions seem smarter. :tsktsk: It is a good idea to keep your post short. :aok: No one can comment on your spelling or grammar. :extrahappy: WATCHING you!! :jrbirdman: **
TRY TO BE NICE!

When I saw that posting my first reaction was to respond strongly but something stopped me…Why bother:shrug: and I just moved on.

When people lack respect and manners you just ignore them.

 

[justasking4]

Worship is above veneration and honour - worship is praise, adoration, homage, something that is reserved for God alone.

You might have another slant on this and if so, perhaps you would share it.

Since all these things are elements of worship when a person says they are devoted or venerate a saint or Mary they are in reality worshipping.

 

[Cinette]

Since all these things are elements of worship when a person says they are devoted or venerate a saint or Mary they are in reality worshipping.

I love my husband and I honour him but I do not worship him.

I love Mary, the prayers to her are prayers of intercession ie I ask her to pray for me, to use her influence with Jesus - I do NOT ask her for anything else because I know that she cannot do for me or give me things that only God can give.

I honour the Saints and I also offer intercessory prayers asking them to pray for me.

I ask my friends to pray for me too.

I only worship God.

Now STOP telling me that I worship anyone else but God because I know who I love, who I honour and who I worship!

Please!:tsktsk: :doh2:

 

[Usagi]

This work goes far beyond this. Its actually endorsed by officals in the church. For example at the beginning of this work we see this:

 

[justasking4]

justasking4;4288870:

The Nihil obstat

and Imprimatur are important, yes, but they are hardly infallible.

Per this Nihil obstat (“Nothing stands in the way”), the Rev. Scanlan (presumably a scholar or theologian who was assigned to read and approve books on the Faith) finds nothing against Catholic faith or morals in the work.

Following Fr. Scanlan’s granting of the Nihil obstat, the local bishop (in this case, Cardinal Archbishop Hayes of New York) granted the Imprimatur (“Let it be printed”), an instruction that the book ought to be printed and made available to the faithful.

The following disclaimer is sometimes included along with the Nihil obstat and Imprimatur. It may not have been in that edition of Liguori’s book, but it is important data nevertheless:

“The Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur are official declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the Nihil Obstat and the Imprimatur agree with the content, opinions or statements expressed.”

Thus, as far as these two men understand, reading Liguori’s work is no danger to the faith or morality of the reader, though they may not necessarily agree with Liguori’s approach, specific wording, etc.

We can be pretty sure they didn’t read the book as equating Mary with God, since that would go against established doctrine.

Usagi
Thanks for the clarification. It still stands though that the Catholic church endorses this work and finds it profitable for catholics to read and practice. Correct?

 

[Peter_J]

**John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. **

• Jesus says that the Holy GHOST will teach us all things that we need to know, so what need is there for any POPE??? Basically, we don’t need the Pope right?

Yes, the Holy Ghost teaches us, but that’s us collectively (including the Pope, Bishops, etc.), not just us individually.

Cinette, that is extremely convenient.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

SO PAUL SPOKE JUST TO PETER ?

Or does it apply to all Christians?

You cannot be serious. You mean Paul said this to Peter to tell Peter that Peter is the only person who has the Holy Ghost ??? Where is it written ???

If this verse does NOT apply only to Peter, it means ALL TRUE christians will have the Holy Ghost in them. Which means, the Pope & Mary are redundant characters (since we already have GOD in us).

If it refers ONLY to Peter, then we have to ask why is Peter’s name is not even mentioned specifically in this letter contained in the book of Corinthians.

I think you should go back and look again, because I don’t recall Cinette saying anything about “just Peter” or “only the Pope”.

It would be wrong to reduce the Church to just each of us individually, but it would also be wrong to reduce the Church to just the Pope.

Well, now I know He serves no purpose to you. NO wonder you cannot reach God.

I find that statement to be very presumptuous.

 

[Usagi]

Usagi;4290914:

Thanks for the clarification. It still stands though that the Catholic church endorses this work and finds it profitable for catholics to read and practice. Correct?

It would seem so, yes. Certainly, I don’t think anyone higher up than the Archbishop of New York has ever tried to revoke the imprimatur or denounced the book.

Of course, the book does not establish doctrine. It must be read in the light of existing Catholic teaching, and a future formal teaching of the magisterium could contradict anything St. Alphonsus thought.

Worshipping Mary as God is the heresy of collyridianism. The Church would obviously not approve of anyone using St. Alphonsus’ writings to promote that practice, any more than the Church would approve of someone using the Scriptures to promote a heretical viewpoint, even though the Scriptures themselves are not merely Church-approved but inspired and inerrant.

Did you have any thoughts on my explanation of St. Alphonsus’ use of “omnipotent” to describe Mary?

Usagi

 

[justasking4]

justasking4;4290987:

It would seem so, yes. Certainly, I don’t think anyone higher up than the Archbishop of New York has ever tried to revoke the imprimatur or denounced the book.

Of course, the book does not establish doctrine. It must be read in the light of existing Catholic teaching, and a future formal teaching of the magisterium could contradict anything St. Alphonsus thought.

Worshipping Mary as God is the heresy of collyridianism. The Church would obviously not approve of anyone using St. Alphonsus’ writings to promote that practice, any more than the Church would approve of someone using the Scriptures to promote a heretical viewpoint, even though the Scriptures themselves are not merely Church-approved but inspired and inerrant.

Did you have any thoughts on my explanation of St. Alphonsus’ use of “omnipotent” to describe Mary?

Usagi

I didn’t see what you wrote about omnipotent. Can you re-paste?

 

[Usagi]

I didn’t see what you wrote about omnipotent. Can you re-paste?

Post 551, back a couple pages.

Quoting myself:

usagi:

[Referring to the claim that Mary is omnipotent]

I believe that even St. Alphonsus explains his claim of Mary’s “omnipotence” in a way that should be acceptable to us all. (I wouldn’t use the word “omnipotent,” and I’m sure you wouldn’t either, but at least we can see what he was getting at.)

The idea is that Mary’s will is always aligned with God’s, just as is true of every other saint in Heaven. Whatever request she would make of God would already be His will to accomplish, and so of course He would do it. Effectively, God does everything Mary asks, and therefore, effectively, Mary can be called omnipotent in that all that she wishes is done. However, it’s not because she has power over God, but because she is perfectly conformed to God’s pre-existing will.

Again, I agree that “omnipotent” is an inaccurate and inflammatory word to use for that situation, but St. Alphonsus used a lot of poetic hyperbole in his book, so he probably chose it deliberately to be a bit shocking.

Usagi

 

[justasking4]

Post 551, back a couple pages.

Quoting myself:

Usagi

Have you read this work and if so do you agree with it?

 

[RNRobert]

ARE YOU GOD ?

And your point would be…?
Can you answer my original question?