I'm getting tired of hearing from Protestants that we worship Mary and the saints!

[Peter_J]

Peter J – We don’t take God’s word with a pinch of salt. That would be evil. Because no man has the ability to judge God’s word. We take it as IT IS.

I’m not an expert on the theology of icons and the 7th ecumenical council, but let me ask you this: could you explain to me how God’s commanding the making of the Ark of the Covenant and Bronze Serpent fit with your understanding of the Ten Commandments?

What does John 6:45 tell us? It tells us EVERYONE. ALL…ANYONE who comes to Jesus DIRECTLY and listens to the Father will be taught. Again, we see there’s absolutely no need for any 3rd parties like Mary or the Pope.

The Pope isn’t a 3rd party, he’s one of us. Ditto Mary. (Conversely, should the Pope say “I don’t need to listen to any 3rd party like the Patriarch of Constantinople or the Patriarch of Antioch, etc. It’s just me and the Lord.”?)

 

[Truthfaithlove]

I’m not an expert on the theology of icons and the 7th ecumenical council, but let me ask you this: could you explain to me how God’s commanding the making of the Ark of the Covenant and Bronze Serpent fit with your understanding of the Ten Commandments?

The Pope isn’t a 3rd party, he’s one of us. Ditto Mary. (Conversely, should the Pope say “I don’t need to listen to any 3rd party like the Patriarch of Constantinople or the Patriarch of Antioch, etc. It’s just me and the Lord.”?)

Which is why I asked ‘Are You God?’. Many people think they can do things that violate the clear instruction of God because they ‘see’ God doing it. God fought with Israel, does it mean we should be fighting? God had the earth swallow up the evil men at the exodus, does it mean we should be digging holes for men to fall into???

God gave US an instruction to follow. Just like He gave the sacrament of rest for the Sabbath for US to follow. But what happens when JESUS came? Jesus…went around eating and saving people…and what was His answer?

Please remember, when your earthly father tells you not to touch the car, I’m sure he has his reasons. It does not mean that just because you SEE him driving it, therefore you too have the licence to drive it. You’re asking to be killed.

SECONDLY…That verse shows that God wants to reach each and everyone of us Individually. Just He(God) and US. Whether the pope or mary is a 3rd party or not is obvious.

 

[RobGentner]

Which is why I asked ‘Are You God?’. Many people think they can do things that violate the clear instruction of God because they ‘see’ God doing it.
**Good point, TFL, and many others think they know what the clear instructions of God are because they read a book written to other people! This normally can be treated with medication and Christian Love. Actually an easier way is belief in the RCC and its teachings. It not only explains God’s instructions it provides the proper doorway into heaven! **

God fought with Israel, does it mean we should be fighting?
**Which begs the question, Does it mean we shouldn’t?? When did God say thou shall not fight? Boy, TFL really knows a lot of things I never heard of! He is really smart! :ehh: I bet you God talks to him! That is how he knows what God thinks! **
God had the earth swallow up the evil men at the exodus, does it mean we should be digging holes for men to fall into???
**Where did it say the earth swallow up men? I must have a different bible! Oh, wait I do!:doh2: I have the “real” Bible. **

God gave US an instruction to follow.
** One instruction? OH! Yea you mean His desire that we “Follow His Church!” **
Just like He gave the sacrament of rest for the Sabbath for US to follow. **What? An eighth sacrament? Thanks , I am correcting my copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church! :coffeeread: ** But what happens when JESUS came? Jesus…went around eating and saving people…and what was His answer? **Did Jesus say: “People misunderstood what my Father meant? They twisted His words to suit their own purpose”? If not He should have, or so I think! **

Please remember, when your earthly father tells you not to touch the car, I’m sure he has his reasons.
**Depending on your age and qualifications he could have many reasons! **
It does not mean that just because you SEE him driving it, therefore you too have the licence to drive it.
** I think you meant LICENSE? didn’t you??? But it was an Excellent point! If you see your father drive the car that doesn’t mean you passed your drivers test! Thanks, I wrote that one down!!! Boy, you are smart!!! **
You’re asking to be killed.
**If not by a car,then by your father, even though he should follow God and not Kill!:yup: Good Point TFL! **

SECONDLY…That verse shows that God wants to reach each and everyone of us Individually. ** OK ,TFL. I give up… Where does it show that? Or were you again telling God what He wants?**
Just He(God) and US. Whether the pope or mary is a 3rd party or not is obvious.
**Thanks TFL! Boy, I learnt a lot. Wait until I let the Blessed Mother and the Pope know what you feel about them. It will hurt their feelings but it isn’t like God listens to them like He does you! So don’t worry about them! **

 

[RobGentner]

I’m not an expert on the theology of icons and the 7th ecumenical council, but let me ask you this: could you explain to me how God’s commanding the making of the Ark of the Covenant and Bronze Serpent fit with your understanding of the Ten Commandments?

The Pope isn’t a 3rd party, he’s one of us. Ditto Mary. (Conversely, should the Pope say “I don’t need to listen to any 3rd party like the Patriarch of Constantinople or the Patriarch of Antioch, etc. It’s just me and the Lord.”?)

**PeterJ,

May I please ask you a question? Do you actually think you are having an intelligent conversation or debate with TruthfaithLove?

I am just wondering. See no joke. Just a real question. By the way I have read most of your posts on many threads you are a thoughtful and intelligent person.

Rob**

 

[RobGentner]

Peter J – We don’t take God’s word with a pinch of salt. I would hope not! Remember Lot’s wife, he could get pissed and make us into pillars of salt if we did that!
That would be evil.
That’s the word! Thanks! Because no man has the ability to judge God’s word. We take it as IT IS.** God’s word and IT IS? Wait, did God only say ONE word? Oh, do you mean the written interpretations of what God told people centuries ago? The one’s other church’s “borrowed” when they left the RCC and changed to suit their own interpretations of what God said? **

And no, that ‘us’ is not collectively catholic and not a call for you to make it collective either.** Hey Pete remember: “E Pluribus Unum”**

John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
What does John 6:45 tell us? It tells us EVERYONE. ALL…ANYONE who comes to Jesus DIRECTLY and listens to the Father will be taught. Again, we see there’s absolutely no need for any 3rd parties like Mary or the Pope.

** That is not what John 6:45 says in anyone’s bible. ** And you knew it as you twisted the sacret words!

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. (Learnt OF the father, goes to Jesus!)

Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Jhn 6:48 I am that bread of life.

TFL, Why not become a RC and eat His body and obtain eternal Life?)

]

Pixie Dust – Don’t tell me what the catholics have done in the past, we’re talking about scripture NOW. Those 2 verses speak for themselves. And like I already showed you in that example, only disobedient kids will ‘take a pinch of salt’ from what their parents say and perform selective compliance.

If your mother tells you ‘pixie, do not play outside with those filthy kids. You must not be their friend’.

DO YOU then tell your mother…so I cannot be their friend but I can play with them…Riiiight???..Those 2 statements should be taken together Riiight???..WRONG!

The instruction is VERY CLEAR. You are not even to play with them. And what kind of kid will say ‘NO, MY MOM SAYS I CAN PLAY WITH THEM BECAUSE AS LONG AS I AM NOT THEIR FRIEND, IT IS OKAY’ - EVIL KID ]
**Evil Kid, or one that thinks He/She can speak for her/his mother like protestants think they can for God? Now if the Mother said Do not play with those filthy kids. You must not be their friend. then later says I must leave you for a while. Here is your babysitter. “Do what the babysitter says”. Then the babysitter says go put and play with the kids. Would you “obey your 'authority figure” or say. My mother said not to play with them so I won’t. Either way you would be disobeying your Mother **. You as a child should not decide whichyour Mother meant. You, as a good child should: obey your mother’s order “to obey your babysitter!” The RCC is our babysitter here on earth for Jesus!

.

 

[Leeann]

RobGentner;

Evil Kid, or one that thinks He/She can speak for her/his mother like protestants think they can for God? Now if the Mother said Do not play with those filthy kids. You must not be their friend. then later says I must leave you for a while. Here is your babysitter. “Do what the babysitter says”. Then the babysitter says go put and play with the kids. Would you “obey your 'authority figure” or say. My mother said not to play with them so I won’t. Either way you would be disobeying your Mother . You as a child should not decide whichyour Mother meant. You, as a good child should: obey your mother’s order “to obey your babysitter!” The RCC is our babysitter here on earth for Jesus!

Hopefully…you as a child, would have a personal, inherent relationship with your mother, that would alert you too any “authority figure” that would encourage **you to go **against your mother’s original command that was obviously given for a reason. You as a good child, should obey your mother’s original order, as it would be the true and safe one…for sure.

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton

 

[RobGentner]

.
This work goes far beyond this. Its actually endorsed by officals in the church.
**No, TFL It is not “indorsed”. But I think you actually knew that! **
For example at the beginning of this work we see this:

Nihil obstat: Rev. Arthur J. Scanlan, S.T.D.
Censor Librorum

Imprimatur: + His Eminence
Patritius Cardinalis Hayes
Archiepiscopus Neo-Eboracensis
Neo-Eboraci
Die 16 Aprilis, 1931

This is an endorsement of a high church offical.

** No TFL it isn’t, and you saying it doesn’t make it such! **

The mere fact this work is endorsed by the church is enough to matter.
** But it isn’t TFL! :tsktsk: **

By endorsing this work the church concurs with what is written here.
**NOPE! **
If it did not endorse this work and rejected it then there would be nothing to discuss.

**
TFL if this statement is True and you are not lying when you said: “If it did not endorse this work and rejected it then there would be nothing to discuss” Then we actually have nothing to discuss. Do we??**

**Now that is a moot point since it was never indorsed! isn’t it?:coffeeread: **

 

[Armenian_cpa]

Since this is an old post, this may have been said already.

I once heard someone say this.

I can imagine the Lord saying if you truly love me, how can you not love my mother?

Love, is not worship!

 

[RobGentner]

Hopefully…you as a child, would have a ** personal, inherent relationship with your mother**, that would alert you too any “authority figure” that would encourage **you to go **against your mother’s original command that was obviously given for a reason. You as a good child, should obey your mother’s original order, as it would be the true and safe one…for sure.

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton

**
Hi Leeann,:tiphat:
Now you want me to decide which Order of My Mother’s to obey, on my own, over the other? Kind of like how Protestants decide what God wants them to do without authoritative Church directives?
I, as others, would not have the wisdom to do that. The baby-sitter is more mature in the ways of my Mother. Plus my Mother entrusting me to the care of the baby-sitter gave her “authority”’ over me and my actions.:sad_yes: The baby-sitter isn’t an “authority figure” a figurehead if you will. She is the authority that was left here for me. She was left to provide for my care, instruct, plus guide and correct me. Since she was given complete “Authority”. I must obey her in order to obey my Mother! Kind of how God wants Christians to Obey The Roman Catholic Church since He left it here to Guide us!:bounce:

Great debate! That was a nice try on your behalf. But the analogue just isn’t a very good one to begin with. Lets agree to disagree and let this one lay! OK? : **

 

[RNRobert]

I was just reading that Vatican bank in which it was quote to having $4 billion in deposits and annual income of $40 million.

What does this have to do with the topic being discussed? Or is this simply an attempt to beat the Catholic Church with whatever stick is handy? BTW, what is the source for this statement?

 

[Scientiphic]

RobGentner:
Robgentner, you might like to check this out:

Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

God said He will be with us always…so frankly, if I were you I’d seriously check the credentials of your babysitter. Perhaps ask for some papers or certificates of valid qualification/commissioning. He or she could very well be a fraud.

.

 

[Peter_J]

Which is why I asked ‘Are You God?’. Many people think they can do things that violate the clear instruction of God because they ‘see’ God doing it. God fought with Israel, does it mean we should be fighting? God had the earth swallow up the evil men at the exodus, does it mean we should be digging holes for men to fall into???

I spoke of a grain of salt with regard to the commandment to not make any graven images. Here’s a couple possibilities:
(1) interpreting it to mean " … except in those instances where the Lord commands you to make one."
(2) interpreting “graven images” in such a way that the Ark of the Covenant and the bronze serpent aren’t “graven images”, and hence making them doesn’t violate the commandment.

What I didn’t mean by “a grain of salt” is changing God’s Word to suit our own preferences. (BTW, thank you for clarifying the “Are you God?” When I first read that, I thought you were just “trolling”.)

If I may add yet another question on here, Do you consider the Lincoln Memorial to be a “graven image”? (Not a rhetorical question.)

 

[RobGentner]

Robgentner, you might like to check this out:

Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

God said He will be with us always…so frankly, if I were you I’d seriously check the credentials of your babysitter. Perhaps ask for some papers or certificates of valid qualification/commissioning. He or she could very well be a fraud.

**
Scientiphic. That was an Excellent point.! Yes, God will be with us always! :yup: How can He do that, you ask? It is easy “by the Body of Christ”. Now don’t be confused. I will explain. Jesus is the head, OK? And the RCC is the Body! So yes God IS with us always, like He promised in the Bible,. That is unless we go with another babysitter. One that our “Mother” didn’t give authority over us and our lives. :tsktsk: Yea, she may be younger and prettier. But in order to “obey” God we have to stay with the real babysitter! Thanks for reading our bible, or was it one that had be changed? Please feel free to ask me to correct your errors in faith. I am will to help you find the way to the real church anytime! That is the Christian thing to do!
Have a Great Day. :tiphat: Remember to pray the rosary! (errr they are a bunch of beads with a cross on the end, looks kind of like a necjlce) It is a very powerful way to get Mary to have her son take care of us and our needs.

God Bless!**

 

[RobGentner]

If I may add yet another question on here, Do you consider the Lincoln Memorial to be a “graven image”? (Not a rhetorical question.)

**
Pete,
He would have to! It is a image of a man. Everyone goes to Washington to “worship” it. (By the Way if the Pope finds out tyhat you told “them” asbout our idols in Wash D.C. he is going to get angry that you gave THAT Secret away! We might have to Pull your Catholic secret card off you! **

 

[RobGentner]

What does this have to do with the topic being discussed? Or is this simply an attempt to beat the Catholic Church with whatever stick is handy? BTW, what is the source for this statement?

**
RN you don’t know? JA4 “makes” things up! I think he may want to borrow some money?? We don’t worship mary (To keep with the OP! )

God Bless! **

 

[justasking4]

What does this have to do with the topic being discussed? Or is this simply an attempt to beat the Catholic Church with whatever stick is handy? BTW, what is the source for this statement?

Came out in yahoo news yesterday. i don’t need this kind of “stick” to beat the church with…View attachment 4332

 

[justasking4]

**
RN you don’t know? JA4 “makes” things up! I think he may want to borrow some money?? We don’t worship mary (To keep with the OP! )

God Bless! **

View attachment 4333

 

[guanophore]

Then what does it mean?

Nihil obstat certifies that a work dealing with faith or morals does not contradict Catholic teaching. The “Censor Librorum” reviews the work as delegated by a bishop of the Catholic Church. The nihil obstat is not a certification that the reviewer agrees with positions or approaches in the work.

Translated into English, this Latin phrase means “nothing hinders” or “nothing stands in the way.”

It does not imply that the contents will actually assist a person in the faith. It is not “official” church teaching or approved for the purpose of teaching, just not considered destructive for Catholics to read.

However ,if you find it personally offensive or destructive, it would be best if you did not read it.

An Imprimatur is an official declaration that a literary or similar work is free from error in matters of Roman Catholic doctrine and morals, and hence acceptable reading for faithful Roman Catholics. Ordinarily an imprimatur is granted by the bishop of a diocese (after a declaration of nihil obstat has been granted by a theologian in regard to the work). On rare occasions, a bishop’s imprimatur may be overruled by higher authorities within the Catholic Church.

The imprimatur is issued by the Bishop, and is not infallible Catholic teaching either. It is the opinion of the bishop if the diocese where the book was written or published.

Have you ever come across any offical rebuke by the Catholic church on this?

No, but I never came across this book before, either, until you dug it up.

I think you are just looking for excuses to attack Catholicism.

You have made it clear that you put no stock in the rebukes of the Catholic church toward error, so why should it matter if one is issued for this book?

Sola Scriptura, which is a much more grievious and widespread error, has been officially rebuked by the Church, yet you disregard that.

 

[eucharist04]

You just have to turn a deaf ear to all the lies.

 

[guanophore]

Doesn’t her reaction here indicate a lack of faith in God if she was anxious?

Faith is based in an act of the will, and not on emotions. I am sure she went through quite a bit of emotional havoc, her community believing she had fornicated with Joseph (or someone), fleeing into Egypt, giving birth in a stable, and many other experiences. Having feelings does not mean a person lacks faith. Faith involves doing what one believes is right, even when one feels differently.

Huh? How can you say this? When i have a different opinion than you and others may have you have at  times accused me lying. The same would apply here would it not?

No, because you post information that is incorrect, and about which you have been given repeated corrections, yet you deliberately persist in pandering untruths. This is different than having an alternative perspectives.

I know it has over 1 billion members and is spread through out the world. I was just reading that Vatican bank in which it was quote to having $4 billion in deposits and annual income of $40 million.

Does that bother you?

The book was not published or used outside of a small regional area. In that area, perhaps, it had an influence in that day and time. As you have read from many Catholic posters here, most of us have never heard of it, or read it.

Where specifically did i say this? Can you paste it here for me to read?

You want us to start republishing your lies? No thanks!

One example, though, is that you keep saying that the deuterocanonicals were not included in the canon until Trent, when it has been shown to you that this is not the case.