I'm getting tired of hearing from Protestants that we worship Mary and the saints!

[happilycatholic]

i derive my theology from the Scriptures and its not wise to go beyond the Scriptures. When we do we are relying on the speculations of men. These titles are very misleading from what we know of her in the Scriptures. The Catholic church has allowed these titles and statements about Mary to go unchecked until you have not the biblical Mary but a Mary that in no way corresponds to the true Mary.
.
Do any of these titles trouble you?

I have to say I don’t like the word “mediatrix”. Just cause it’s an ugly word

I wholeheartedly accept Mary’s role as mediatrix however.

 

[justasking4]

I have to say I don’t like the word “mediatrix”. Just cause it’s an ugly word

I wholeheartedly accept Mary’s role as mediatrix however.

Why didn’t the apostles teach this?

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4316876]
Originally Posted by justasking4
I would start with those in your church who started the Marian doctrines and the speculations that have accumulated over the centuries about her that have nothing at all to do with her.
guanophore;
I guess that would be Luke and John, primarily, and Matthew. Luke parallels Mary with the Ark of the Covenant, and John shows Jesus always calling her “woman”

Where in Luke and in context can this be found?

*(mother of all living),

Please lets get serious. We don’t even have to search the Scriptures on this one. Let’s go to you next favorite authorities i.e. the fathers. Do any fathers refer to her like this?

then shows her being given as mother to the disciple that Jesus loves. Later, John shows her crowned in heaven, triumphing over the devil. These are the men that originated the “speculations” that have accumulated.

This is all speculations unless of course you can show that the Catholic church has infallibly interpreted these passages to mean what you think they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Which writer specifically and explicitly says she is an ark? Chapter and verse please.
guanophore;
You have been shown these parallels dozens of times. Search
'justasking4 and ark of the covenant" and you will find all the posts. Chapters and verses are all included.

And all have been refuted…

 

[justasking4]

Which “me” is this? Which of the personalities? I know that I got exasperated with one of you!

Does this mean we can talk again to each other?

i’ve been getting blasted pretty hard out here. It seems like no one likes me-us:shrug:

 

[guanophore]

Why didn’t the apostles teach this?

They spoke in Aramaic, and wrote in Greek. Mediatrix is a Latin term.

It is through their writings and teachings that we come to understand this role.

Where in Luke and in context can this be found?

As I indicated, dozens of Catholics have answered this question from this username in hundreds of posts. Search back, and aquaint yourself with the history of the username.

Please lets get serious. We don’t even have to search the Scriptures on this one. Let’s go to you next favorite authorities i.e. the fathers. Do any fathers refer to her like this?

Yes, but how is that relevant, since you reject them as an infallible guide?

This is all speculations unless of course you can show that the Catholic church has infallibly interpreted these passages to mean what you think they do.

Actually, if you really do that research on the username you are on, you will find that it is clear the infallible interpretation of the Church means nothing either! You have previously stated you do not believe that such a thing exists, and that you reject the infallible pronouncements that have been made.

There fore it follows that any infallible interpretation will be considered “speculation” to you.

And all have been refuted…

Why are you here, ja4? What is it in yourself that makes you unable to tolerate the differences of others? What drives you to attack other Christians?

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4316990]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Please lets get serious. We don’t even have to search the Scriptures on this one. Let’s go to you next favorite authorities i.e. the fathers. Do any fathers refer to her like this?

guanophore
Yes, but how is that relevant, since you reject them as an infallible guide?

One does not need to be infallible to know the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
This is all speculations unless of course you can show that the Catholic church has infallibly interpreted these passages to mean what you think they do.
guanophore
Actually, if you really do that research on the username you are on, you will find that it is clear the infallible interpretation of the Church means nothing either! You have previously stated you do not believe that such a thing exists, and that you reject the infallible pronouncements that have been made.

How can a fallible man or organization ever become infallible? That’s impossible. It does not mean though they cannot be right at times though.

There fore it follows that any infallible interpretation will be considered “speculation” to you.

Not if they have facts that are properly used.

Originally Posted by justasking4
And all have been refuted…
guanophore
Why are you here, ja4? What is it in yourself that makes you unable to tolerate the differences of others? What drives you to attack other Christians?

The difference between you and me or your crew that works under name is that i love the truth and i’m willing to defend the truth while you are not.

---

 

[ChristianKnight]

Hi fellow Knight!

Christian. Up to a point you are correct.
But what you said is too general.
1 ) You don’t have to accept the CC as your church. But without the grace of the CC no one can get to heaven. If you want to fully worship God as he wants to be worshiped you should join the CC.
Otherwise some TV preacher will fill your head with “stuff”. (Remembered the TOS)

1. You must " belong" to a group called “Christians” by being basptisted in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" “to be accepted” by Jesus. The Devilis another story, He accepts anyone! :

Because of your “young” age I will never play with your mind. Like I do with other posters , like my buddy JA4 and others. Although everything I say to them is “true”, I joke with them, attempting to get them to stop playing games and get real! They know when I am joking!

No one knows who has been chosen. Many have been called, and only God knows that answer. I hope with me attempting to save souls ,by making them realize that the CC, the first and only church, has the answers to salvation more fully than churches that only follow the 5 “sola”. They sometimes lead themselves straight into hell. The Bible and God’s Church says that not I. The other churches were made much after the true chuch and as such are counterfeit an imitations.
I t is the truth it is a fact .Anyone can see that with their own eyes if they will only OPEN them.

God Bless.

Really these threads aren’t the best place to search for truth, too many Protestants here to get much of that!

Rob

Proof that I have to be in the CC to fully invelope the grace of god? (I want bible scripture, no saints, unless they are teh disciples)

Where in the bible does it say the Church is the only true salvation? (I do not care what the “church” says to be honest, I care about what Jesus, or the disciples said, other then that…)

 

[CWBetts]

ChristianKnight,
If you use only the Holy Scriptures, you are getting an incomplete picture. To disregard the teachings of such as St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas is in a word, ludicrous. I’m goingg to go out on a limb here…you are merely parroting what your pastor or some other Protestant said and therefore, basing your theology on waht someone else said.

 

[ChristianKnight]

ChristianKnight,
If you use only the Holy Scriptures, you are getting an incomplete picture. To disregard the teachings of such as St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas is in a word, ludicrous. I’m goingg to go out on a limb here…you are merely parroting what your pastor or some other Protestant said and therefore, basing your theology on waht someone else said.

How do you know St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas are true?

All theology is based on what someone else said…

 

[CWBetts]

How do you know St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas are true?

All theology is based on what someone else said…

Its called Holy Tradition, one of the ways God reveals Himself to the faithful. As I said in a previous post, Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine.

 

[ChristianKnight]

Its called Holy Tradition, one of the ways God reveals Himself to the faithful. As I said in a previous post, Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine.

Explain this Holy Tradition.

 

[hays1122]

ChristianKnight,
If you use only the Holy Scriptures, you are getting an incomplete picture. To disregard the teachings of such as St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas is in a word, ludicrous. I’m goingg to go out on a limb here…you are merely parroting what your pastor or some other Protestant said and therefore, basing your theology on waht someone else said.

Isn’t that basically what we all do?
I mean,you have been listening to your priest. You listen to the Pope. I’m sure you listen to other Catholics.
That’s one thing I’ve learned since listening to Catholic radio.
Catholics like to say things against protestants. They pick on things that don’t seem to make sense to me.
For instance one speaker on the radio making a comment on how protestants are always talking about how Jesus died on the cross for their sins. “They never talk about how Jesus rose from the dead for their sins”. Now I know for sure that protestants do talk about how Jesus rose from the grave. We are taught that the fact that he died on the cross came first. He wouldn’t have risen if he hadn’t of died.
So anyway,my point is,we all listen to others of our religion for guidance. You didn’t come up with your Catholic beliefs on your own.

 

[happilycatholic]

Why didn’t the apostles teach this?

Are you sure they didn’t?

 

[justasking4]

Are you sure they didn’t?

If read the entire NT you will not find anything said about it. Not even one verse.

 

[sola_scriptura]

I am fed up with the false misconceptions by Protestant Christians who insist that we worship Mary and the saints. I will put this in plain English.

you could always stop hanging out with protestants

Catholics DO NOT worship Mary and the saints. It is veneration and honor due to them because they lived out the life that Jesus Christ taught them! They are also in Heaven with God. They are much closer to God than you and me.

are they omnipresent? Can they hear your prayers? Is there any apostolic authority giving license to this practice? If so please share.

Who are you to judge us that we worship saints and Mary? Do you think you an expert in Catholicism. Do you have proof from a Catholic document permitting the worship of saints and Mary?

knowledgeable Protestants understand the difference between veneration and worship, however, we object to the doctrine all the same.

You won’t find it. We believe these saints are more alive than you and me. It benefits us to ask the entire of the people of God to help us while we are still in this world which is full of temptation and sin. We ask the saints to “pray for us.”

Most Christians believe the saints are all alive (whether departed or not), that’s really not the issue is it? The question is whether it’s valid to view them in an intercessory role, are they omnipresent in a way that allows them to hear our prayers, and so on.

Many times here on Catholic Answers Forums. Some Newbie self-proclaimed Christian declares, I say many Catholics worship Mary. Not all do, and maybe it’s not in the instruction manual, but many do. Every Catholic will come to these idoloters’ defense and say, “Oh, it’s not worship, it’s veneration.” Sorry, not buying it, and nobody should.

I wouldn’t say that – though I’ve been accused of saying many things Catholics don’t like (and I probably won’t stop saying them). The Catholic Churches simply focus too much on Mary and I do think the doctrine of saintly intercession is extremely problematic from a doctrinal perspective. There is absolutely no precedent for venerating the departed – however, we will not agree on this issue so frankly it’s sort of a waste of time to discuss it in a real way.

After all I’m left arguing with it’s right because the RCC says it’s right – regardless of how much logic supports my view.

Oh, please. You will probably start searching for the truth and use Catholic prayer books on saints and Mary as proof text. Prayer Books however, are not Church documents.

and church documents are not the word of God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church forbids worshipping idols. Worship is due to God alone.

Must we Catholic force you to type, “Catholics do not worship Mary.”

thankfully long gone are the days when Catholics can force us to do anything.

If you continue on this persistence, I might as well say that “Protestants worship the Bible, or the roof during their Sunday worship at Church.”

you can say it all you want – it will never bother me. If you really believe venerating saints will do you any good then why do you care what we think?

After all they raise hands up towards the ceiling. So they worship ceilings of the Church. Of course, I don’t think they worship ceiling just because they had their hands raised up high in adoration.

we’re not all Pentecostals

 

[happilycatholic]

If read the entire NT you will not find anything said about it. Not even one verse.

Can you show me a verse where the apostles are praying to Jesus?

 

[Peter_J]

thankfully long gone are the days when Catholics can force us to do anything.

Yes, that’s exactly what we wanted you to think. (insert evil laughter)

 

[Peter_J]

If you continue on this persistence, I might as well say that “Protestants worship the Bible, or the roof during their Sunday worship at Church.”

It would almost be worth doing, just to see how many other Catholics join in.

Then again, maybe I don’t want to know how many other Catholics would join in.

 

[Cinette]

I agree. Please bring Holy-Sacred Tradition to the discussion. I’m still trying to understand exactly what it is.

After all the postings. All the answers, All the explanations. You STILL ask the same questions!!

Well sweatheart - you need to go to Remedial Classes. Its those multiple personalities you have.

I recommended Patrick Madrid’s books. Get them - they will enlighten you. Also get FOUR WITNESSES by Rob Bennett. You will also enjoy them.

 

[Cinette]

you could always stop hanging out with protestants

are they omnipresent? Can they hear your prayers? Is there any apostolic authority giving license to this practice? If so please share.

knowledgeable Protestants understand the difference between veneration and worship, however, we object to the doctrine all the same.

Most Christians believe the saints are all alive (whether departed or not), that’s really not the issue is it? The question is whether it’s valid to view them in an intercessory role, are they omnipresent in a way that allows them to hear our prayers, and so on.
Well hello there! Look who is here! My favourite thorn!

Wellcome back I missed you

You don’t want to be on this thread. It is become Remedial. See we are going toward the 850th posting!!!

Run! There are better threads.