I'm having doubt..please help

[Junebug999]

I have read the passages in John but how come only Catholics see Apostolic Succession in them?

I see that Catholics have an interpretation of the Scriptures that is very different from other churches. Not necessarily wrong but different. Is our evidence for Apostolic succession, the primacy of Peter and the Eucharist as real presence is truly…true, why are we single in believing it that way?

Why don’t the other churches have sacraments? Because they see them as twists in the doctrine. They see the sacraments as mere, over glorified rituals. Yes Catholicism does have the ritual element of Judaism but didn’t Jesus condemn the law-stickling traditions of the pharisees?

maybe I’m playing devil’s advocate here…

You make a very good point, for the Pope to wear a crown of thorns would be scandalous. Thanks.
By the way I think Pope Benedict XVI is awesome but as to his writings which I have read a few of, why does he often use pagan philosophy as a source? Maybe I’m overlooking something but I think pagan elements can threaten our purity. It is precisely these elements that has Protestants accusing us of being stained with pagan doctrine.

I believe they are blinded to the truth is why they do not see what we believe and what the Catholic Church teaches. I am 55 years old and was raised as a baptist – my father and mother having attended baptist seminary, and my father was a baptist pastor. I can tell you from my former protestant beliefs that while the protestants may be well intentioned, that they have to believe what they do – all of it – and they have to rail and attack the one true Catholic Church – OR – give up, acknowledge the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church on earth, the One True Faith, holy and apostolic. They have to believe ALL of their protestant beliefs or their whole protestant belief system would fold in like a stack of cards.

What I do in dealing with Protestant attacking my Church now, is I simply state what I believe. Such as, a gal at work asked me if I go to Church and I said, “Yes, I’m Catholic.” and she replied, “Oh, I used to be Catholic but NOW I’m Christian.” The correct reply like this would be, “I am Christian, and I believe in the Catholic Church.” If she were to continue the attack, I would say, “If you believe I am wrong, it would be best to simply pray for me, and I will pray for you, and we can let God decide.” Then, by living our life for Jesus, we can be a witness to the One True Faith.

We don’t have to be theologians and be able to answer every question, but neither do I have silent frustration either. I can simply say what I believe (in about one sentence) and leave it at that.

I do believe prayer for those who attack the Church and our participation in the Church’s beliefs is the most important thing we can do in response. With study, in time we will be able to answer them better.

Also, I listen to a lot of CD’s from apologists. One of my favorites is Scott Hahn, and he says the most important thing to do when replying is say it with love.

God bless you, hold strong to your faith, do not let well-intentioned but misguided protestants (protestors) or let Satan take from you what you came to believe. We are being tested at times we go through this. We can hold our beliefs in our hearts, respond to other with simple sentences and Christian charity and let the Holy Spirit take it from there.

Just my 2 cents worth. I will keep you in my prayers.

Oh, one other thing, we don’t have to feel like we are cowering before these protestors – look up 1 John 3:1 – we are sons and daughters of the Almighty God. God will see us through.

 

[Deconi]

Paul understood this as well. From Acts 17:

[22] So Paul, standing in the middle of the Are-op’agus, said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious.
[23] For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, To an unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. [24] The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man, [25] nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything. [26] And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation, [27] that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us, [28] for In him we live and move and have our being’;
as even some of your poets have said, `For we are indeed his offspring.’

Amen.

 

[nuntym]

To Latingirl, whenever I start having doubts about the Catholic faith in light of Protestant, uhm, “protests” against our traditions (which to be honest by now does not happen often), I always whip out my celphone and read these words of wisdom from G.K. Chesterton:

**What is any man who has been in the real outer world, for instance, to make of the everlasting cry that Catholic traditions are condemned by the Bible? It indicates a jumble of topsy-turvy tests and tail-foremost arguments, of which I never could at any time see the sense. ** The ordinary sensible sceptic or pagan is standing in the street (in the supreme character of the man in the street) and he sees a procession go by of the priests of some strange cult, carrying their object of worship under a canopy, some of them wearing high head-dresses and carrying symbolical staffs, others carrying scrolls and sacred records, others carrying sacred images and lighted candles before them, others sacred relics in caskets or cases, and so on. I can understand the spectator saying, “This is all hocus-pocus”; I can even understand him, in moments of irritation, breaking up the procession, throwing down the images, tearing up the scrolls, dancing on the priests and anything else that might express that general view. I can understand his saying, “Your croziers are bosh, your candles are bosh, your statues and scrolls and relics and all the rest of it are bosh.” But in what conceivable frame of mind does he rush in to select one particular scroll of the scriptures of this one particular group (a scroll which had always belonged to them and been a part of their hocus-pocus, if it was hocus-pocus); why in the world should the man in the street say that one particular scroll was not bosh, but was the one and only truth by which all the other things were to be condemned? Why should it not be as superstitious to worship the scrolls as the statues, of that one particular procession? Why should it not be as reasonable to preserve the statues as the scrolls, by the tenets of that particular creed? To say to the priests, “Your statues and scrolls are condemned by our common sense,” is sensible. To say, “Your statues are condemned by your scrolls, and we are going to worship one part of your procession and wreck the rest,” is not sensible from any standpoint, least of all that of the man in the street.

G.K. Chesterton, The Catholic Church and Conversion

I suggest reading the whole book, it is quite entertaining, enlightening, heart-warming, and affirming, all at the same time

Best of all, it’s free to download

 

[broski234]

Wow, you guys are great. Thank you. I will need prayer to get over these residual doubts. Please pray for me. Sometimes, when you don’t have a strong Catholic Community and are being attacked by all sides, it’s easy to be overwhelmed.

I believe that God led me to Catholicism and that he continues to speak to me. I’m sure you can imagine it’s hard for a new convert to be in this “confusing faith”. If Catholicism were simple, surely they would understand it. The same could be said for God.

Catholicism has enormous depth to it, as Christ Church should.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Don’t forget the Eastern Orthodoxy please!

We traditional Christians: Catholics and the Orthodox make up together about 2/3 of the entire Christian population.
We believe in the 7 sacraments, in Apostolic succession, in the visibility of the Church, in the hierarchical system, etc… and all this long BEFORE the new protestant heresies came up.

It’s them who have to explain things…

Thank you for this post. I was just about to respond to the OP’s question about why no other churches have sacraments but you beat me to the punch. The Orthodox and the Catholic Church do have differences (obviously) but at the core we are very similar— as you so rightly point out.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Rejoice and be glad.
For the Lord has been persecuted and hated first.

I liked all the help you got so far…

But I can only say - take up your cross. Its hard to be in the world when you are NOT OF the world. And its hard to explain the graces you are feeling to the depths of your soul, and i know you wish you could just hand it to them…and let them see how your eyes have been unveiled.

BUT - pray for them. Take the graces God is giving you and pray. You sowed the seeds, so now let God water them thru your prayers…!

Blessings.

 

[ChristIsLord]

The ritualistic nature of the Mass is from the days of the apostles. Our roots come from Judaism as Christ and the apostles were Jews and the God of Abraham is the one true God. Plus, the consecration during the Liturgy of the Eucharist has to follow a specific formula in order for transubstatiation to occur.

is that true? if so wouldn’t that denote that “transubstantiation” couldn’t have occured until the “specific formula” that we see today was put in place?

don’t you wonder why something as important as this “specific formula” which without christians are deprived of the eucharist is nowhere to be found in the bible or even earlier church writings as we know it today?

 

[nuntym]

is that true? if so wouldn’t that denote that “transubstantiation” couldn’t have occured until the “specific formula” that we see today was put in place?

don’t you wonder why something as important as this “specific formula” which without christians are deprived of the eucharist is nowhere to be found in the bible or even earlier church writings as we know it today?

Uhm, excuse me? There are four available formulas in the Bible:

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 1Cor 11:23-25

Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” Matthew 26:26-28

And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.” Mark 14:22-24

And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves; for I tell you that from now on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
And likewise the cup after supper, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.” Luke 22:17-20

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Hi, I’m a new Catholic.
I thought this would be a good place to come.

When sharing my salvation story with Protestant friends…and strangers ( I just can’t keep it in) I constantly hear of the Church’s “false doctrines” We are accused of twisting and ading to the Scriptures (by teachings such as those of Ignatius, Clement and Augustine). I think that to dismiss ANY extra-Biblical evidence of Christianity is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen. All the laws and teachings for every facet of Christianity MUST be in the Bible or else it’s false.
O Scriptura! (sorry Carmina Burana pun)

I am told that while an earnest Christian, I should leave the Catholic church because “they messed everything up” What did they mess up? They ask me why I decide to stay in a church so ridden with error. What errors am I facing?

Granted the Catholic Church has a horrible record of persecution and power-abuse, but does that make the entire faith false?
I’m beginning to have doubts about the saints, Mary and Apostolic Sucession. I mean can men really have powers only meant for Christ?

I have been searching for the face of Christ since my Confirmation and feel His presence in the Eucharist. When you get down to Scriptural evidence, even Baptists have to second-guess their assumption the Lord’s Supper is a symbol.
I’m worried about the Church’s doctrines, do we put too much importance on tradition? Why do our traditions seem “ritualistic” in comparison to the simple Gospel of the Apostles? Why does the Pope wear a golden ring when Christ wore a crown of thorns? Why do we in fact (though not descended from pagan religions) have so much in common with them?

I want to be finally home. I don’t want to believe that God tricked me (or even worse Satan).

**Help me! **

As a new Catholic who is being bombarded with arguments against the Catholic Church and her teachings, I recommend the following, based on the fact that I was in your shoes about 14 years ago when I was a new convert:

1. Take a “Break” from discussing religion with those who are attacking your new found Faith and let them know it - do it nicely and tell them that you will let them know as soon as your “Break” is over. The reason for this first recommendation is that it will give you time to soak in your new found Catholic Faith.
2. Read the Gospels - at least 1 chapter a day. Read the Gospels through at least 3 times and the rest of the New Testament at least once during your “Break”.
3. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church through all the way at least once during your “Break”. It’s an easy read with a wealth of Scripture citations in the foot notes. It also has an Topical Index in the back and you can for instance, look up Limbo or Purgatory and read about what the Catholic Church actually teaches about those and other topics. (you will become surprised that much of what non-Catholics who attack our faith are actually basing their attacks on something that the Church doesn’t teach or a misunderstanding of what the Church actually teaches). There is even a board game using the CCC which you can get and play with your family or Catholic friends which will help reinforce what you’ve learned. - The primary importance for this is that you learn inside and out what the Church Does teach and then you can address someone’s misunderstanding of it during an attack on your Faith.
4. During this “Break” from discussing religion, Pray the Rosary daily specifically for 2 things: 1. For you to grow in and become strengthend in faith and understanding and that you will not be led astray 2. For those who have been attacking your Faith (pray for them by name), that their hearts will be open to the Truth and that they not be led astray.
5. During this “Break” obtain via a Catholic friend, library or bookstore a new book each week on Catholic Apologetics. As you read these books and the CCC and the Bible, keep a note book handy and take notes. Really Study, don’t just read. Simply by writing down some great nugget of truth, you increase your chance of recollecting it in the future. Of course, at least once a week read through your notes.

During this “Break” as always, practice your faith with frequent Confession and reception of the Most Holy Eucharist (as the CCC suggests, daily if possible).

 

[latingirl]

Thanks Monica,
I liked that advice. I’ll try reading the Gospels (I need a Bible with bigger writing lol) It’s strange that I am following most of your advice already. When my doubting got very serious, my first instinct was to go to Mass. I borrow a lot of Apologetic books from the library so I’m good there.

I also need to research Church history as we are being attacked for things that happened hundreds of years ago! I’m really bad at History so I tend to avoid the subject. When Protestants bring it up, it’s my weakness. I’m more of a scientific person myself which is why I like analyzing the Gospels and finding Scriptural evidence for our practices.

I already pray a rosary daily (90 % of the time ) I pray usually for those who persecute the Church and that I be given the wisdom of the Spirit. St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Catherine of Alexandria and Frances De Salles are a few of my favorites. Also John-Paul II…well you know . I should dwell more on the Holy Spirit as he inspired Peter to preach at Pentecost. With a mind as busy as mine, you can see why I have insomnia .

Thanks, you all are so good. I’m glad I voiced my problems.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Thanks Monica,
I liked that advice. I’ll try reading the Gospels (I need a Bible with bigger writing lol) It’s strange that I am following most of your advice already. When my doubting got very serious, my first instinct was to go to Mass. I borrow a lot of Apologetic books from the library so I’m good there.

I also need to research Church history as we are being attacked for things that happened hundreds of years ago! I’m really bad at History so I tend to avoid the subject. When Protestants bring it up, it’s my weakness. I’m more of a scientific person myself which is why I like analyzing the Gospels and finding Scriptural evidence for our practices.

I already pray a rosary daily (90 % of the time ) I pray usually for those who persecute the Church and that I be given the wisdom of the Spirit. St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Catherine of Alexandria and Frances De Salles are a few of my favorites. Also John-Paul II…well you know . I should dwell more on the Holy Spirit as he inspired Peter to preach at Pentecost. With a mind as busy as mine, you can see why I have insomnia .

Thanks, you all are so good. I’m glad I voiced my problems.

I’ll trade you my Giant Print NAB that I bought by accident for smaller print!

With the Catechism of the Catholic Church, there are MANY references to the Early Church Fathers.

I have several volumes of Fathers which may appeal to you. I will write down the titles tonight and post them tomorrow.

Great job on everything you are doing! Keep up the great work!

 

[WarriorAngel]

I’ll trade you my Giant Print NAB that I bought by accident for smaller print!

With the Catechism of the Catholic Church, there are MANY references to the Early Church Fathers.

I have several volumes of Fathers which may appeal to you. I will write down the titles tonight and post them tomorrow.

Great job on everything you are doing! Keep up the great work!

I use www.newadvent.org for all the early fathers.
CUTS short the time - and the search bar is so easy to find things.

 

[latingirl]

Thank you guys/ and galls , gratias ad omnes.
I bookmarked the page with the Church Father writings from New Advent. I’ll use that. I have an epistle by Clement somewhere in my documents.

 

[fellowChristian]

Jesus’ words help me with any doubt I may have…

Matthew 16:18
18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Jesus says church,not churches. The year He started this church was around 33ad. Every Protestant denomination began after 1517. So it couldn’t have been any one of those He was talking about.

Matthew 10:20
20"For it is **not you **who speak, but it is the **Spirit of your Father **who speaks in you.

Luke 12:12
12for the **Holy Spirit will teach you **in that very hour what you ought to say."

Jesus says that it is the “Spirit of your Father” doing the speaking and the “Holy Spirit” teaching. So how can the Church err on matters of faith and morals?

**Matthew 18:17-18 **
17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

18"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever **you **loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Notice that the church, not the bible, has the authority. What church? The one Jesus built on Peter a bishop of our church.

**Matthew 28:20 **
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

He is with us where ever two or more are gathered,in His church, in His word and in the Eucharist. No other abides in His word like the Catholic Church…

John 6:56
56"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

 

[latingirl]

I think it’s amazing how the same book used to attack us is the same book that supports our faith. When are people going to see the Bible as a teacher and not as a weapon?

People often try to use the Bible in attacking Catholics and it’s easy to get caught up on those attacks. You start asking yourself “what if their right”

I was doubting whether priests had any authority at all to consecrate the Eucharist but even as he lifted the host into the air I said “My Lord and My God.” I suddenly remember that those were the same words uttered by Thomas upon feeling Christ’s wounded body. The Eucharist always does stuff like that.

 

[mdcpensive1]

latingirl, I will pray for you on your journey. We all are learning about our faith, understanding its rich history and making it a part of our lives. You seem to be blessed with the opportunity to share your faith. Keep going, learning and praying. At some time in each of our lives, God put us in situations to evangelize. The most important thing is a prayer life and being a person of conviction. People see that the truth means something to us and it makes a difference in our lives through the workings of charity. We cannot argue someone into the faith, but we can plant the seeds that the Holy Spirit can use.

mdcpensive1

 

[JJJ4Eva]

My Darling Latin Girl, it is so sad to see your faith torn to shreds so early in its formation. I have said in another thread that I am no longer Catholic, but I have numerous reasons for this, and it is a personal choice. However, the next best thing to what I am, is Catholic, and I love the Church for its beauty in God’s Eyes. I see that yes, people pull the Church apart, it’s what people do. The Doctrines are changeable, and yes I see that perhaps some will change, they have changed before. God’s mission on this Earth was to prove to us one thing, that our salvation was in His hands not our own. He deliberately sent His Son to us in a stable, a squatter, a homeless person. When Jesus stood before Pontius Pilate, He was so wealthy, His garments, His sandals, His jewels, Pilate was intimidated, and indeed couldn’t see such a wealthy man about to be demeaned as the Jews said. Pilate would never have spoken to a common Jew, position was everything to the Romans.
God’s message to you in how this transpired is this; You are a sinner, but I Am your Saviour. You are poor, but if you turn to Me I will clothe you. I never intended you to be poor, My intention is for you to be wealthy like My Son, but in order to get there, you have to care like My Son.
The Church has 2000 years of history, yes many mistakes were made, but many more will be made still. The Church is not perfection, Christ is! Follow Christ my Dear, and your heart will be at peace when people try to tear it apart.

 

[mdcpensive1]

My Darling Latin Girl, it is so sad to see your faith torn to shreds so early in its formation. I have said in another thread that I am no longer Catholic, but I have numerous reasons for this, and it is a personal choice. However, the next best thing to what I am, is Catholic, and I love the Church for its beauty in God’s Eyes. I see that yes, people pull the Church apart, it’s what people do. The Doctrines are changeable, and yes I see that perhaps some will change, they have changed before. God’s mission on this Earth was to prove to us one thing, that our salvation was in His hands not our own. He deliberately sent His Son to us in a stable, a squatter, a homeless person. When Jesus stood before Pontius Pilate, He was so wealthy, His garments, His sandals, His jewels, Pilate was intimidated, and indeed couldn’t see such a wealthy man about to be demeaned as the Jews said. Pilate would never have spoken to a common Jew, position was everything to the Romans.

God’s message to you in how this transpired is this; You are a sinner, but I Am your Saviour. You are poor, but if you turn to Me I will clothe you. I never intended you to be poor, My intention is for you to be wealthy like My Son, but in order to get there, you have to care like My Son.
The Church has 2000 years of history, yes many mistakes were made, but many more will be made still. The Church is not perfection, Christ is! Follow Christ my Dear, and your heart will be at peace when people try to tear it apart.

JJJ4Eva, you are a citizen of Christ with me. I am sad to hear that you have defected from the Church Christ established. There is no other church better than what Christ has made as His Church. You have my sympathy in that you believe Christ could allow the preached truth to be changed. This cannot happen and will not happen as Christ Himself guaranteed us this in His scriptures.

The Church is not torn apart or imperfect as you say because it is truely the Body of Christ. There are those that stray from it because of sin and misunderstanding or outright schism, but the Body remains Holy because it is Christ’s mystical Body. I am afraid you misunderstand the relationship between His Body and the Church. This is the point I made to latingirl to see the beauty we have in our Church.

mdcpensive1

 

[yinekka]

JJJ4Eva where did you get this from?

*When Jesus stood before Pontius Pilate, He was so wealthy, His garments, His sandals, His jewels, Pilate was intimidated, and indeed couldn’t see such a wealthy man about to be demeaned as the Jews said. Pilate would never have spoken to a common Jew, position was everything to the Romans.
God’s message to you in how this transpired is this; You are a sinner, but I Am your Saviour. You are poor, but if you turn to Me I will clothe you. I never intended you to be poor, My intention is for you to be wealthy like My Son, but in order to get there, you have to care like My Son. *

 

[JJJ4Eva]

Hi Yinekka, I perhaps read differently to the way most people do, or interpret I suppose; Pilate called a Jew into his offices, this would never be, Jews were looked down upon. Pilate’s attitude was very different to what one would expect (he keeps asking for Jesus to be pardoned), even his wife came in, supposedly to chat about a dream. People make a fuss about celebrities, which Jesus was, but what if Bill Gates walked into your office, no matter how much you don’t care about Microsoft, you would want to meet this man, who is a self-made billionaire. Money does that. Jesus had a tomb, a brand-new tomb, bought for Him. Some rich man just happened along and did it, perhaps they had investments together, there is nothing to dispute that notion, how else did He survive? He got hungry. He looked after less fortunate people. He cared about the sick and the dying. Jesus wrote The Secret – It’s up to us to read it in His parables and in the blatant lines that we pass over so quickly. He was worth so much money, that Judas sold out on Him. Why was Judas offered such a large sum of money? Was Jesus perhaps making such a lucrative income that a hit was put out on Him? Money is the root of all evil, and the killing of Jesus was orchestrated perhaps, for the benefit of the income of the Pharisees?
When Jesus was tortured, His garments were removed from Him – His garments were seamless, specially made (possible by Egyptians, for He was Egyptian too). So I image an undergarment, linens, silks, a full-length shift, a cloak, belts and sandals. They must’ve made an impression, because no one wanted them ruined during the beatings.
Here are some Gospel passages to ponder:
Matthew 27:18 For he knew it was out of envy that they had handed Jesus over to him. Why were they envious? Because Jesus was holy? No because Jesus was rich is more likely – John 12:43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.
Matthew 27- 35 When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
John 12:4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5"Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages." 6He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. 7"Leave her alone," Jesus replied. " It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me." - Apparently, Jesus didn’t mind luxury…