I'm LDS....let's learn from eachother.....

[LaMar]

I sense that somewhere inside you aren’t the condescending atheist intellectual you can look like in some of your posts. I think you fear becoming that which you hate. don’t worry, you’ll be fine.

Amateur psychoanalysis is it? I’m an old hand at this.

I think you’re a much more principled person, with a much more well-defined character than you would like others to assume. I found it laughable and ridiculous when you earlier claimed that you needed the myth of a divine punisment/reward to do the right thing. Maybe you’re exchanging the sin of lying for the sin of pride, and maybe you’re not fully conscious of your own qualities, but I’d bet big money you’d do the right thing on your own, without some mythical devil spook to roast you in oil (or any of the 98 other gruesome fates Dante predicted for unbelievers).

Your problem is not a faulty character, or an inability to know the difference between right and wrong. It’s simply insecurity. You probably grew up in a large family with busy parents. (I’m a St. George Mormon, so I know a bit about this sort of thing too). I don’t think you’re being consciously dishonest, but at the same time I know you’ve constructed a literal interpretation of Christianity to stay in the good graces of your Heavenly Father (who is psychologically just as real as the earthly one you tried so hard to impress as a child).

I think as we both grow older (I think you’re a little older than I, but not much) we’ll probably keep moving toward what Marcus Aurelius called the golden mean. If we meet in 50 years, we’ll probably agree on most things. Time has a way of smoothing out our quirks.

 

[LaMar]

maybe in 850 but by 1200 it was pretty much the rule.
Spain shows the depth of belief by the christians who refused to convert even the face of the moorish occupation. those blonde turks came form the janissaries that cowardly Europeans gave in tribute. (and probably a few drunk vikings) i disagree with your timeline on the hagia sophia runes. (varangian guard maybe 980 ish?)

We’re both right. They had a long history.

Have you visited this part of the world? Some of the most interesting stuff is in these places where Islam and Christianity bumped up against one another. Many assume that they just fought with swords and spears. The reality is that they went all-out to outdo one another in art, architecture, and all sorts of other lasting contributions to human civilization.

 

[catholiconce]

I have allowed LDS elders into my home and have visted with them. They are just like door to door sales people they are selling Mormanism. I encourage all to vist with them If you get them off track or ask question that are off subject they become very upset. Last time they came we were comparing Catholics and Mormanism. The one young man Raised his voice in my house and started screaming at me.(Quote) "We are not here to talk about the Catholic church we hate the catholic church. I gave up two years of my life for this misson and you are going to talk about what I came here to talk about. " (unquote) At that point I reminded them they had another place to go and they left. They left and are coming back next week. If that same young man screams at me again and I keep asking the sort of questions he may just find himself in jail.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have allowed LDS elders into my home and have visted with them. They are just like door to door sales people they are selling Mormanism. I encourage all to vist with them If you get them off track or ask question that are off subject they become very upset. Last time they came we were comparing Catholics and Mormanism. The one young man Raised his voice in my house and started screaming at me.(Quote) "We are not here to talk about the Catholic church we hate the catholic church. I gave up two years of my life for this misson and you are going to talk about what I came here to talk about. " (unquote) At that point I reminded them they had another place to go and they left. They left and are coming back next week. If that same young man screams at me again and I keep asking the sort of questions he may just find himself in jail.

The boy has issues. What was his companion doing during this rant? Their mission president wouldn’t approve of such behavior.

 

[LaMar]

I have allowed LDS elders into my home and have visted with them. They are just like door to door sales people they are selling Mormanism. I encourage all to vist with them If you get them off track or ask question that are off subject they become very upset. Last time they came we were comparing Catholics and Mormanism. The one young man Raised his voice in my house and started screaming at me.(Quote) "We are not here to talk about the Catholic church we hate the catholic church. I gave up two years of my life for this misson and you are going to talk about what I came here to talk about. " (unquote) At that point I reminded them they had another place to go and they left. They left and are coming back next week. If that same young man screams at me again and I keep asking the sort of questions he may just find himself in jail.

Why would you invite them back?

You’re right about them being salesmen. When I was young I had the idea that a mission was going to be more of a community service idea. I found out it was all about the numbers the way most Mormons do.

You shouldn’t feel obligated to let them into your house next week. If someone has made himself unwelcome then you should ask him to leave, or at least keep him on the porch. No one should be disrespectful as a guest.

 

[majick275]

Amateur psychoanalysis is it? I’m an old hand at this.

let the games begin

I think you’re a much more principled person, with a much more well-defined character than you would like others to assume.

you flatterer.

I found it laughable and ridiculous when you earlier claimed that you needed the myth of a divine punisment/reward to do the right thing.

i said i needed God.(not necessarily the devil) if i was absolutely convinced that there was no God then i would probably be a wealthy televangelist because in person I CAN PREACH!!!

Maybe you’re exchanging the sin of lying for the sin of pride, and maybe you’re not fully conscious of your own qualities, but I’d bet big money you’d do the right thing on your own, without some mythical devil spook to roast you in oil (or any of the 98 other gruesome fates Dante predicted for unbelievers).

it’s not so much the stick as the carrot but even then there is truly love for God as a motivator.

Your problem is not a faulty character, or an inability to know the difference between right and wrong. It’s simply insecurity. You probably grew up in a large family with busy parents. (I’m a St. George Mormon, so I know a bit about this sort of thing too).

oldest of two. stay at home mom. parents are TBM but NOT Utah variety. (all native Texans)

I don’t think you’re being consciously dishonest, but at the same time I know you’ve constructed a literal interpretation of Christianity to stay in the good graces of your Heavenly Father (who is psychologically just as real as the earthly one you tried so hard to impress as a child).

i believe he is real. as a mormon i was trying to impress him and move up the chain and “earn” exaltation. now I accept him and love him and thankfully look forward to the gift of salvation.

I think as we both grow older (I think you’re a little older than I, but not much) we’ll probably keep moving toward what Marcus Aurelius called the golden mean. If we meet in 50 years, we’ll probably agree on most things. Time has a way of smoothing out our quirks.

i’m 45. i hope we agree in the future…but then I hope it’s my side of the mean.

 

[majick275]

We’re both right. They had a long history.

Have you visited this part of the world? Some of the most interesting stuff is in these places where Islam and Christianity bumped up against one another. Many assume that they just fought with swords and spears. The reality is that they went all-out to outdo one another in art, architecture, and all sorts of other lasting contributions to human civilization.

ex military. served in desert storm. i’ve seen a bit of islam as well as much of europe. little bit of turkey and the balkans. they competed in everything for sure. sometimes they collaborated in strange deals too.

 

[elt1956]

Do they wear them all the time? Do they have more than one pair? Do children “go through the Temple ordinances” or is it an adult thing?

I should probably just go get a book about their beliefs… I am not interested in becoming Mormon… I am just curious about what people believe & why.

Hello Luvlife. I am in the same position too. To me lack of communication causes so many problems in this world. What we don’t know, we fear and what we fear, we fight. Peace

 

[majick275]

and sometimes what we know quite well we feel compelled to fight because we know it’s potential to harm.

 

[elt1956]

‘’

Yes, there is good to be found everywhere. But so too is the personal responsibility to follow God, and teach Truth.

Mormons have a lot of error in their beliefs. We shouldn’t beat them up over their beliefs, but we can discuss how they are in error, and why.

Dearest Rebecca. Why not discuss/communicate how we may believe in the same things? TEACHING another what you believe to be their errors of belief when they have not asked for it leads to arguments and is insulting. Are you blocking Rebecca, or learning about what another human being believes? Peace.

 

[Irish_Kathy]

Technically, it’s accurate, in the same way Roman Catholics are polytheistic.

Mormons have one God they know and ask favors of (roughly corresponding to your God the Father), but we believe he has a God, and that God has a God too, and on and on.

You guys have Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Mary. Then you have demigods in various saints, though most Catholics probably couldn’t be called worshipers of them.

You’re right about the fact that your idea of who you call God is “similar” to our idea of God the Father. But that’s about where the similarity ends. The way we understand the Holy Trinity is that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all united to one another in a very unique way and they are NOT SEPARATE GODS!!!

Also, Mary is not a “Goddess.” She has no power in and of herself. Any power she has comes from the Holy Trinity and the fact that she is the Mother of God because she gave birth to Jesus. You might want to reference one of my favorite Catholic Bible scolars, Dr. Scott Hahn to understand our understanding of Mary better. He’s helped me so much to see Catholic theology in a more “down to Earth” way. If you’re interested in reading more about what’s here I would highly recommend the book Hail Holy Queen.

catholic-pages.com/bvm/hahn.asp

Also, our understanding of the Saints is not the same as your understanding of “becoming Gods.” Like with Mary, any power the Saints have comes from God and God alone.

:kissme: Kathy

 

[elt1956]

That’s the common Mormon excuse too. (Women don’t want the priesthood, their job is different…).

I think women should have the opportunity to take leadership roles if they choose to do so. Not just in religion, but in every aspect of life. That’s my own position, anyway.

Hello Luvlife. My quarrel, if you want to call it that, is just this. I don’t like the man half of human kind telling women what they can and can’t do. Would I want to be a Priest? Really doesn’t attract me, but that is just me. Peace.

 

[LaMar]

Hi Kathy,

I’m pleased you agree we don’t worship, respect or pay homage to the same God. I’m happy about that as I’m sure you are, and I hope to keep it that way, for “time and all eternity” (heh).

You’re right about the fact that your idea of who you call God is “similar” to our idea of God the Father. But that’s about where the similarity ends. The way we understand the Holy Trinity is that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all united to one another in a very unique way and they are NOT SEPARATE GODS!!!

Your very words prove that the way Catholics see the triune gods is exactly the way the Hindus see their one God.

When a Hindu claims he worships only one God, supreme in the universe, most are astonished. The curious can ask a Hindu to explain where Shiva, Krishna, and the hundreds of lesser gods fit into the whole equation. What will a Hindu say? He’ll say these aren’t actually separate gods, they are simply different manifestations of the one God of Hinduism.

The one God of the Hindus is named Brahman, who is lord of the universe and has no peer.

hinduwebsite.com/brahmanmain.asp

Whether you like it or not, and no matter how many hoops you jump through, you are in fact a polytheist, at least as far as Hindus are polytheists. Your definition is exactly the same as the Hindu definition. There is no difference.

As far as Mary goes, I find it pretty odd to hear you deny the worship of her, inasmuch as a bunch of Catholics blocked traffic a few weeks ago because they thought they saw her image on a street sign (no, I’m not kidding). There were 5 or 6 of them with candles, crying, kneeling and praying to her image on the evening news in my town. You can call this whatever you like. I call it worship, which is exactly what it is.

I don’t know why you’d be ashamed of this or try to minimize it. “G-d the feminine” is approached by some Jews, and some Mormons ask “Heavenly Mother” for healings. Neither Mormons nor Jews will usually admit as much openly. You guys have your own Goddess, queen of the universe, to pray to and ask favors of. Why deny it? Be proud of it.

Take Care,

LaMar

 

[LaMar]

ex military. served in desert storm. i’ve seen a bit of islam as well as much of europe. little bit of turkey and the balkans. they competed in everything for sure. sometimes they collaborated in strange deals too.

You’re lucky. You are several years older than I and got to go to the Balkans before the lunatics turned it into an insane asylum. By the time I was 21, the war was on full force.

I found it amazing that during WWII, both Hitler and Stalin agreed not to fight in cities like Banja Luka and Sarajevo. Even history’s most murderous dictators appreciated the significance of the cities as world cultural sites. Then, in the 1990s, the citizens themselves started bombing them to rubble.

 

[elt1956]

Hi Kathy,

I’m pleased you agree we don’t worship, respect or pay homage to the same God. I’m happy about that as I’m sure you are, and I hope to keep it that way, for “time and all eternity” (heh).

Your very words prove that the way Catholics see the triune gods is exactly the way the Hindus see their one God.

When a Hindu claims he worships only one God, supreme in the universe, most are astonished. The curious can ask a Hindu to explain where Shiva, Krishna, and the hundreds of lesser gods fit into the whole equation. What will a Hindu say? He’ll say these aren’t actually separate gods, they are simply different manifestations of the one God of Hinduism.

The one God of the Hindus is named Brahman, who is lord of the universe and has no peer.

hinduwebsite.com/brahmanmain.asp

Whether you like it or not, and no matter how many hoops you jump through, you are in fact a polytheist, at least as far as Hindus are polytheists. Your definition is exactly the same as the Hindu definition. There is no difference.

As far as Mary goes, I find it pretty odd to hear you deny the worship of her, inasmuch as a bunch of Catholics blocked traffic a few weeks ago because they thought they saw her image on a street sign (no, I’m not kidding). There were 5 or 6 of them with candles, crying, kneeling and praying to her image on the evening news in my town. You can call this whatever you like. I call it worship, which is exactly what it is.

I don’t know why you’d be ashamed of this or try to minimize it. “G-d the feminine” is approached by some Jews, and some Mormons ask “Heavenly Mother” for healings. Neither Mormons nor Jews will usually admit as much openly. You guys have your own Goddess, queen of the universe, to pray to and ask favors of. Why deny it? Be proud of it.

Take Care,

LaMar

Hello LaMar. To call our Mother Mary a Goddess is just plain yucky to a Catholic. But then the ways of God are sometimes strange and the ways of hu/mans are always stranger. Peace.

 

[why_me]

Hello LaMar. To call our Mother Mary a Goddess is just plain yucky to a Catholic. But then the ways of God are sometimes strange and the ways of hu/mans are always stranger. Peace.

You are right. I would prefer calling her our mother. This would make more sense since Jesus told John that she was his mother and hence, our mother too. But since the lds do have a heavenly mother, it would not make sense for the lds to do so. However, one can have two mothers. One as a proxy mother and the other as more literal heavenly mother.

 

[stevejosem]

Remember that although Limbo was never doctrine, the presence of the OT faithful (who were never baptized) in heaven has always been doctrine. They are refered to as Saint Abraham, Saint Noah, etc. and Catholics have always been free to choose OT persons as patron saints and for confirmation names. Therefore, the Church has always recognized that somehow non-baptized persons can be saved.

Paul

The OT Jewish faithful were circumcised into God’s Covenant.

Circumcision was how one entered into God’s Covenant before it was replaced with Baptism for entering into God’s Covenant. So your argument is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[elt1956]

You are right. I would prefer calling her our mother. This would make more sense since Jesus told John that she was his mother and hence, our mother too. But since the lds do have a heavenly mother, it would not make sense for the lds to do so. However, one can have two mothers. One as a proxy mother and the other as more literal heavenly mother.

I am “assuming” you are LDS. I hope by saying that I am not making a you know what out of either of us, but I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND a God, beyond a God, beyond a God??? And a proxy Mother? Of God? or me? or you? Peace

 

[stevejosem]

As far as Mary goes, I find it pretty odd to hear you deny the worship of her, inasmuch as a bunch of Catholics blocked traffic a few weeks ago because they thought they saw her image on a street sign (no, I’m not kidding). There were 5 or 6 of them with candles, crying, kneeling and praying to her image on the evening news in my town. You can call this whatever you like. I call it worship, which is exactly what it is.

1. Do all who call themselves Mormon accurately represent the teachings of Mormonism?
2. Why do you presume to know the hearts and minds of people?

The following quote explains why Catholics can pray asking for the Blessed Virgin Mary’s intercession without placing her on the same level as God:

*To non-Catholics, the honor shown to Mary appears to be nothing other than the worship of Mary. This would place Mary on a level with God and be a violation of the First Commandment. Some non-Catholics have even gone so far as to coin the word “Mariolotry” for the Catholic devotion given to Mary. In fact, Catholic worship is reserved only for God. The Catholic Church even has special words for all this: latria is the worship offered and due to God alone, and dulia is the veneration given to the saints, including Mary [although hyperdulia (more than dulia, but far less than latria) is the term applied to the honor given to Mary]. The words “latria,” “dulia” and “hyperdulia” can be confusing to the layperson however, even though they come from the New Testament Greek, because we don’t commonly use them (and they can appear to be nothing but smoke-and-mirrors to the non-Catholic who has never heard of them before). *

The first question puts this whole area of discussion in perspective. Protestants, in their worship services, offer songs and praise and prayer to God; this is their highest form of worship. Since they don’t have a priesthood, they have nothing else they can offer. Catholics on the other hand, offer the Sacrifice of the Mass to God. Our offering of sacrifice is made only to God and is our form of worship. This allows us to give lesser things such as songs and praise and prayer to those who can pray in our behalf before God: the saints and especially the Blessed Virgin Mary. When the Protestants see us offering what is their highest form of worship to someone other than God, it appears to them that we are worshiping someone other than God.
Source

 

[Memaw]

Thank you for the welcome…as I said in my OP I am not here to spread contention, convert anyone or put down another’s faith. I’m just here to learn and possibly answer some questions…and I’m hoping for the same in return.

You have it from me. We are ALL Gods children!