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water
Guest
Maybe you spend more time praying for your parish. Also, I advise you not to use such strong words to your parish. You can disagree with someone - even the pasoter - but show love and respects.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
ravenonthecross:
Until the last half of the 20th Century, the Laity in the USA were not only very much involved in deciding the style of their parishs’ churches, but they were also very much involved in the process of designing and building the church, with the engineers, architects and construction contractors being chosen from the members of the parishes whenever possible.
That made designing and building the parish church, and sometimes the Cathedral, an act of love and devotion that the people of God participated in together.
That is completely unlike what has happened in most parishes and dioceses since WWII where the initial design for parishes churches has been dene by diocesan councils, with some (name removed by moderator)ut and feedback from the parish councils and from the Laity, who then let the work out to engineers, architects and contractors who may not even have been Catholic…
This was very much true of the “Taj Mahony” where there was very little feedback from parish councils and from the laity, and the job was let out to an engineering and architectural firm that was neither owned by nor run by Christians.
I’ll take St. Ignatius Church in San Francisco, at least the way it looked in the late 1970’s, over the Cathedral of Los Angeles on any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
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Victorious
Guest
There was no excuse for not rebuilding the Cathedral of St. Vibiana, which was an absolutely beautiful cathedral. I’ve never been to the new cathedral, but based on the pictures I’ve seen, I’m not missing much.
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Cavaille-Coll
Guest
Regarding the Sign of Peace, this is based on the fact that we must make peace with our brother before offering our gifts on the altar. All too often, parishes endulge in a poorly-timed chat fest (with the Eucharist on the altar) instead of truly offering forgiveness for those they have wronged and forgiving those who wrong them. The Sign has nothing to do with ending wars or wishing your neighbor a good, peaceful day.
In the Maronite Rite, the Peace is given by the priest to the acolytes, then down into the congregation in this form: Robert turns to Jim with his hands held together as in prayer; Jim places his hands over Robert’s hands and slides them off, thus bringing his own hands together, then Jim turns to Sarah, who places her hands over Jim’s, slides them off and turns to Frank, and so forth. This form is far more symbolic and much less disruptive that what we have to deal with. It is not that I am anti-social or afraid of germs, just that I don’t want to contribute to a lack of reverence during the Mass.
Regarding seminaries, St. John’s in Camarillo may be closing soon. That is a serious concern for America’s most populous diocese, which could once fill that enormous campus with seminarians studying exclusively for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Traditional seminaries like Mount St. Mary’s and Mount Angel are full to capacity, as are traditional religious orders of men and women. The mainline Franciscans, Jesuits, and others who are still into liberation theology, experimental liturgy, feminist issues, and a general abandonment of their rule are literally dying. I recently visited a nearby convent known to be very liberal. An elderly sister (habitless, of course) was giving me a tour of their new chapel, complaining that the Church doesn’t think women are intelligent enough to hold positions of leadership. She then began to lament that they haven’t had a new postulant in years and the last one stayed only for a few months. Only an outsider can make the connection, I guess.
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fiat1122
Guest
What happens is that the laity want to tell pastors how to run things, and this usually means when the pastor points out that the church is NOT a democracy, and that he is ONLY doing things as the VATICAN wants, then the feminazis, and those stuck in the 1970’s generation, KUMBAYAH, get angry, well I would LOVE that particular pastor and help him.
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Brendan
Guest
Actually, the use of the upstairs room was given to them by the owner at Christ’s request.
The room, according to Mark 14, the room was “furnished and ready”
Having such a furnished spare room would have been a sign of means in such a large city as Jerusalem.
The room was not just ‘furnished’ but was ‘ready’ for the Passover. So it’s pretty clear that Christ was using the borrowed Sedar set for a rather wealthly man.
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jmcrae
Guest
Thanks, Brendan!!
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Brendan
Guest
Julianna,
The Gospel of Mark tells us that the perfume was worth ‘a year’s wages’. How many prostitutes have that kind of cash on hand? I doubt even one of Herod’s concubines could scrape together that much coinage.
And that is not even including the alabaster jar, which she broke. that’s not exactly and inexpensive item but a luxury and a rarety.
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rider
Guest
Here is a quote from the Pieta prayerbook:
Our Lord’s revelations to Mutter Vogel
One should** never** attack a priest, even when he’s in error, rather one should pray and do penance that I’ll grant him My grace again. He alone fully represents Me even when he doesn’t live after My example!
and farther on it says “If you hear a judgment against a priest, pray a Hail Mary”
Lets everyone who posted on this thread say a Hail Mary for this priest, and may he be filled with the joy that the love of God brings to the soul.
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Walking_Home
Guest
The following Church document says different. I do not advocate correcting a priest during Mass—but if a priest is involved in any form of abuse----we do have a right to approach him and if need be go further up. From what the OP has stated—it seems the new priest is actually following the intentions of the Church-----much to her disagreement.
I do agree-----we should always pray for our priests.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20III
[11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.[27] On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free reign to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,[28] and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today…
[170.] … Where abuses persist, however, proceedings should be undertaken for safeguarding the spiritual patrimony and rights of the Church in accordance with the law, employing all legitimate means.
- Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters
[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
That’s a lot of Hail Mary’s!
We would all do well to remember to say a Hail Mary instead of criticizing. When you think about it, the Hail Mary’s would be so much more productive than the criticism, don’t ya all think? 
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Actually, a fraternal correction is much different than criticism. So is the process you outlined in your post. What rider is saying is not to criticize our priests, which can easily happen when someone is not in agreement with what they are doing. Agree?
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Walking_Home
Guest
The word rider used was attack. I took it to mean–correct. I may have misunderstood. In this forum ---- the topic of priests does come up-- usually within the context of what is or isn’t an abuse. I agree ----we should not criticize a priest, who follows the mandates of the Church.
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Julianna
Guest
Rome had alot of money. Prostitutes received “gifts” not just cash, which would explain the alabaster jar. The only other way she could have that much money…was to steal it. But then again, we all know what the punishment was for stealing, back in her day. She earned that money on her back, and I don’t think she was a nickel/dime prostitiute. She probably was never caught because she slept with married men…and therefore had a bargaining chip. Herod’s concubines were “controlled” by Herod. He was the Pimp Daddy. The woman with the jar, was a free agent.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
But if you re-read rider’s post, you will see that she is simply quoting the Pieta prayerbook. Their words, not hers.
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Brendan
Guest
Let’s assume that your stretch of the Gospel is fact, and she was a prostitute.
Was her use of the money the best possible use?
If a person nowaday’s has ‘ill gotten gains’ and they are repentant, should they follow her example and donate the money to provide for an ostenatious display for the Church; a gold Monstrance or a marble reredos, perhaps; or follow the Apostle’s suggestion and donate it to the poor?
What does Mark 14 tell us?
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Walking_Home
Guest
I know rider was quoting the Pieta prayerbook. I quoted RS 2004.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Brendan:
This preoccupation with details of how this lady made her living is not going to edify anyone. I don’t think that, aside from how she earned her living and that she was a repentent sinner, the Gospels give us any details, and we aren’t supposed to spend time we could spend worshipping God, examining our our lives, and contibuting to the stread of the Gospel in useless speculation about things such as the details in some of the posts above.
*Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Laz’arus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. There they made him a supper; Martha served, and Laz’arus was one of those at table with him. Mary took a pound of costly ointment of pure nard and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the ointment.
But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was to betray him), said, “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box he used to take what was put into it.
Jesus said, “Let her alone, let her keep it for the day of my burial. The poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me.”
John 12:1-12 RSV*
*And while he was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head.
But there were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment thus wasted? For this ointment might have been sold for more than three hundred denarii, and given to the poor.” And they reproached her.
But Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you will, you can do good to them; but you will not always have me. She has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand for burying. And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is preached in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.”
Then Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. And when they heard it they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought an opportunity to betray him.
Mark 14:3-11 RSV*
Tradition says the woman was Mary Magdelene, and that she had done this out of gratititude for the many sins Jesus had forgiven and the demons Jesus had driven out of her.
Extravegant Churches, fitings, chalices and garments should be given if they are given from GRATITUDE for all that God has done for us.
We are to take help the poor and do the things mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46 because that’s what Jesus has commanded us to do, and becuase of our love for one another.
The Jewish summary of the Law reads:
Shema Yisroel,
Adonai Elohenu
Elonenu Ehad…,
Hear O Israel,
The Lord your God,
The Lord is One God
Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy soul and all thy mind and all thy heart and with all thy strength…
And thy neighbor as thyself.
And who is my neighbor? Asked the doctor of the Law
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
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Trident59
Guest
Wish my parish would be taken over by sanctimonious, Pre V2 enthusiasts.
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LilyM
Guest
Plenty of repentant sinners have taken both of these courses of action as penance for their sins.
Since the Bible does give us two greatest commands, love of God and love of neighbour, neither seems to be an inappropriate use of ill-gotten gains.
Since the Bible does give us two greatest commands, love of God and love of neighbour, neither seems to be an inappropriate use of ill-gotten gains.
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