I'm not a Catholic because

[PJM]

Originally Posted by miztyzo562

O learned one. Please tell me what Paul taught that was contrary to Jesus, Jesus, Jesus…Jesus…please tell me. Let us know.

THE REPLY [not mine] PJM
The Catholic Church condemned Mary worship in the 3rd Century Jewish/Protestant.

Romans 9:15-18 vs Matthew 5:7
And if that is true, then how do you explain this google.com/search?hl=en&s…og&sa=N&tab=wi

**Matt.5 Verses **7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy”
Rom. 9: 15-18 “[14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.”

***My dear friend in Christ. The explaination when rightly understood is the easy part. I suspect your accepting it may not be?

Humanity alone of all things Created are from Gods OWn Want. [READ Isaiah 43: verses 7 and 21].

Further ONLY humanity can rationalize and love; which require a mind, intellect, FREEWILL and soul. These gifts that permit us to choose to emulate God, Used as they were intended by God ; would cause everyone to know, love, serve, worship and OBEY God.

But Satan and his minions; Adam and Eve and ALL of us fail to do so in entiretly [EXCEPT Mary the Mother of God.

God back to the Book of exodus and read how Yahweh "hardened the heart of the Pharoah… What took place there is pecisely the explaination for both Matthews and Pauls writting.

DID GOD HARDEN THE HEART OF PHAROAH? SURE! [COLOR=“red”]BUT HOW AND WHY?*

The “WHY” leads to and is the cause of the “:how.” It is precisely and exclusively because of the foreknowedge pharoah had that [Jews- God] was making these request THROUGH Moses and Aaron; and FREELY choose to both deny and challange God that leds to the chastiments. The more opportunites God offered; the more obstinate pharoah FULL OF PRIDE, ignored and denined Gods Will.

So the hardened heart is a direct consequence of pharoahs sin. That is true then and now. It is OUR freewill choice to deny God’s Will in our lifes; OUR sins that hardens our hearts; makes us more obstinate: AND GOD ALLOWS THIS AS THE NATURAL CONSEQUECES OF SIN. **

Can God not chose to punish sinners? Of course he can. We are His created. And this is ALL the message of Paul is sharing. Revering back to Matthew; even with our sins IF AND WHEN WE REPENT AND TURN BACK TO GOD; HIS MERCY IS THERE EAGER TO BE GIVEN TO ALL WHO REPENT AND CONVERT.

Rom.10: 17 “So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ”

Eph.3: 9 to 12 “And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church [SINGULAR: meaning THE CATHOLIC Church] the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him"

**2nd. Peter 1: 16-**COLOR=“red”] "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

**Matt.13:9-12 **“He who has ears, let him hear." Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.”

May God Grant to us All: True Wisdom and Understanding,

Pat

 

[truthordeath]

Well then that means you are not Lutheran, Presbyterian/Reformed, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, Anabaptist, Waldensian, Swedenborgian, Amish, Menoninite, Old Catholic, Hutterite, Puritan, Moravian or Hugenot.

The Pentacostal movement started in the USA. AOG started in the USA, 7th day Adventist started in USA, 4 Square, Calvary Chapel, Church Nazarene, African Methodist, Jehovah Witness and Mormon.

Now you may belong to one of the non-denominational groups…the denomination of non.

Was I close?

Well I guess you could say that I belong to the religion of the Word of God.There is no such religion that I know of, but that is what I follow. Man is merely a meddler.

 

[pablope]

Yes, Papal infallibility, a Catholic Doctrine that goes all the way back to the 19th Century,

I choose to establish my Christianity on the Bible alone, and in context given.

 

[PJM]

=lisahiku;8502318]because there is no sense of community or fellowship where I attended mass. (previously)

***SURE THERE WAS AND IS: YOU JUST MISSED IT

Unlike Protestant servoces which cater to floowship and unity at the expese of WORSHIPING God; Mass is 1. From God [the Father] Of God [The Son] and By God [The Holy Spirit].

Eucharist; a Greek working meaning “thanksgiving”, has also a triune nature. At one and the same time it is a Sacrifice Sacrament [Thank you Jesus!], a Communion Sacrament where we participate in the most astounding and amazing unity with God by actually consumming His Glorified Body; blood, Soul and Divinity [the comeplete Jesus]; THANK YOU JESUS! and also a Worship Sacrament. Thank you Jesus.

Catholic Mass is [or ought to be] ALL about God! Fellowship is outside of the Mass and takes MANY forms that one can with little effort particiapte it. To give up the Real Presence and the Sacrament of Known forgivenness of sins to enjoy yourself is no excuse; much less a valid reason. In doing so one DOES put there eternal salvation at risk!

My friend it is not to late to REPENT and Revert!***

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.[Always JUST and ONLY One God; One set of Faith beliefs [no option here], and One Church the ONLY one founded, guided and garded by jesus Himself [John15:18-19].

Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

May God grant you wisdom, humility and TRUE understanding,
Pat

 

[miztyzo562]

miztyzo562;8502702:

We do not bow to the statues, we bow to God.

So, if I see you bowing and kneeling before a Bible…am I to assume then you are worshipping the Bible? Again, I know their is nothing in the Catechism that alludes to idol worship, nor do I worship a book or bow before it. But you still allude as to why this is going on.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zsu3PvBa1...AAACU/pPu5BnRDE9c/s320/catholic_idolaters.jpg

This directley violates “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. **You shall not bow down **to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me"

If you say, “In my mind im not bowing before a statue”, its like telling a Police officer “In my mind I don’t own this bag of Cannabis, im just holding it”

 

[PJM]

=miztyzo562;8502702]

Again the Scriptures are clear, "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them

 

[CopticChristian]

pablope;8502332:

Again the Scriptures are clear, "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them

, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me".

You have made this point many times. It has been answered many times. You have a way of looking at it that suits your purpose. You are wrong. You will not get anyone to concede you are right as you evangelize your position.

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian;8502306:

Exactly how does it prove anything?? My link clearly shows masse’s bowing to a statue of Mary, yet you still refuse to admit this is going on. And how is it that you derive that I’m protestant??
I dont agree with them either, nor modern Judaism.

If you can’t pick up on the contradictory teachings of Paul, then it would be no surprise to me that you couldnt realize this is the “Non Catholic Religions thread” and cared to comment on a post titled “I’m not a Catholic because” which would clarify that Non Catholics exist on this site, hence negating your inquiry as to why I’m here.

Interesting thing about Christmas, does the scriptures allude to a December birth? Funny thing is the only birth on record for any diety on December 25th is Mithras.

I understand your problem and Jim Staley with Christmas.

 

[miztyzo562]

=miztyzo562;8502702]

 

[miztyzo562]

To get back on topic, this is another reason why I’m no longer Catholic (this can be said for others who leave the faith entirely).

 

[SteveVH]

pablope;8502853:

Again, I know their is nothing in the Catechism that alludes to idol worship, nor do I worship a book or bow before it. But you still allude as to why this is going on.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zsu3PvBa1...AAACU/pPu5BnRDE9c/s320/catholic_idolaters.jpg

This directley violates “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. **You shall not bow down **to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me"

If you say, “In my mind im not bowing before a statue”, its like telling a Police officer “In my mind I don’t own this bag of Cannabis, im just holding it”

Let’s look at the flip side of this. If I am bowing down before the tabernacle, based upon your understanding you would say that I am worshipping Christ. But if am only doing so for show, because others around me are doing the same thing, and do not believe that Christ is truly present there, am I actually worshipping him? Of course not. If this was the case then faith would have no part in worship. I could very well stand before the judgment seat and claim that I bowed down, and therefore worshipped, even though I did not believe. It is not the outward action that determines whether or not we worship, but rather the interior dispostion of the heart. What you are saying makes no more sense than saying that I am not following Christ because I have not plucked my eye out nor cut off my hands. I am thankful that we are judged by a God who reads our hearts, and not by men who would condemn others based upon the fallacy of their own understanding.

 

[miztyzo562]

miztyzo562;8502906:

But if am only doing so for show, because others around me are doing the same thing, What you are saying makes no more sense than saying that I am not following Christ because I have not plucked my eye out nor cut off my hands. I am thankful that we are judged by a God who reads our hearts, and not by men who would condemn others based upon the fallacy of their own understanding.

I am not condeming anyone, I’m merely showing the truth, if you find it condeming then its not my perogative. The first part of your reply can be answered here “Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.”
, I can’t see why you would do the same for show, its only obvious you wouldn’t jump off a bridge if others were doing it.

 

[Miriam1947]

PJM;8502911:

It wasn’t an intention of mine to hijack this thread, I was mereley answering questions posed to me. **And believe me for a good portion of my life I myself was a devout practicing Roman Catholic. **

And for the last portion, Yes GOD commanded THESE to be created, you should read further in 2 Kings 18:4 where the serpent ended up being worshipped.

And may God Bless you as well:thumbsup:

What does being a devout practicing Roman Catholic mean? When and why did you become un-devout?

 

[miztyzo562]

miztyzo562;8502930:

What does being a devout practicing Roman Catholic mean? When and why did you become un-devout?

Meaning being unquestionably adherent to Roman Catholic Dogma. I became UN devout when more and more Priests were being questioned about child abuse, and I also couldn’t understand Cardinal’s blessing bikes known to be owned by motorcycle gangs.

 

[Stephen_C]

miztyzo, arn’t you a walking talking chick tract…
So do you have kids? Do you send them to school…let relatives or friends watch over them? Again, why are you here?

 

[miztyzo562]

miztyzo, arn’t you a walking talking chick tract…
So do you have kids? Do you send them to school…let relatives or friends watch over them? Again, why are you here?

How does inquire as to wheter I have children and let others watch them have to do with anything relevant to the subject?? This is the “Catholic Answers” forum correct?, Am I not free to browse threads for questions I may have with Catholicism? And in turn post in a thread for “Non Catholics” and reply to a post inquiring as to why “I’M” not Catholic. It seems to me Im being questioned here as a non Catholic is contrary to the websites name.

 

[CopticChristian]

To get back on topic, this is another reason why I’m no longer Catholic (this can be said for others who leave the faith entirely).

Why you cannot be Catholic is enough. You have no requirement to tell anyone what they should do. You should realize that you appear to be deranged.

 

[Stephen_C]

No I am thinking the pic you posted as proof of something (as if you knew their hearts). As bad as the child abuse issue has been it was still a very small % (1 is too many)…a child is more likely be abused by family member or family friend then by any other group…

 

[CopticChristian]

How does inquire as to wheter I have children and let others watch them have to do with anything relevant to the subject?? This is the “Catholic Answers” forum correct?, Am I not free to browse threads for questions I may have with Catholicism? And in turn post in a thread for “Non Catholics” and reply to a post inquiring as to why “I’M” not Catholic. It seems to me Im being questioned here as a non Catholic is contrary to the websites name.

This is Catholic Answers and you may want to look at the forum rules or soon you will be a memory unable to participate in dialogue.

You appear not to be looking for answers. The priest scandal is a scandal. There are Protestant pastors that have done the same. Ted Hagard had a gay relationship, Jimmy Swagart consorted with a Prostitute…Zwingli was a fornicator, David cheated on his wife…and you know what when you look at the geneology of Jesus…

The geneology of Jesus is filled with all sorts of people that sinned…this is His Family…would you like to level some of your criticims there. We are His family and we sin…unless of course you do not belong to the family.

 

[PJM]

=geoformeo;8502289]Welcome to the thread Prodigal! And Telestia, if you too find these issues difficult, then this response is for you too. Tackling these one at a time…

Papal infallibility: it may be helpful to read the conversation I have been having with dingodile on this subject in this very thread.

Marian dogmas:
-Immaculate Conception and sinlessness: Luke 1:28.
Mary is “full of grace” and “the Lord is with you”. Not partially graced, but fully graced. If you were full of grace, would you a) ever be in sin or b) ever have any desire to go against the will of God? It is only fitting that our Lord be conceived, developed, and born from the purest of wombs.

-Perpetual Virginity: Luke 1:34.
Mary’s questioning of the angel of how she might conceive would be preposterous had she not been and intending to remain a virgin. Anyone who is engaged knows exactly how one will be able to conceive in the near future. And the fact that Jesus gives Mary to the apostle John (John 19:26-27) indicates that there were no other siblings to entrust the care of His mother to.

-Assumption into Heaven, Queen of Heaven, Mother of the Faithful: Revelation 12
Who is the woman who gave birth to the “male child, destined to rule all the nation with an iron rod” if not Mary? And who but a queen wears a crown? And she is there is bodily form (stars under her feet), and the rest of her offspring are “those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus” (v. 17). Bear in mind Revelation was written by John, the same John who Jesus gave Mary to.

Marian Apparitions: Because if “every fact may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses” according to Jesus (Mt 18:16), how much more 70,000+ witnesses in the 20th century (Our Lady of Fatima) ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/October.htm

"Dogmas About Relics": Matthew 9:20-22, Acts 5:15-16, Acts 19:11-12
Physical objects can be a means of grace.

Purgatory: Matthew 12:32 (implies that there are sins that can be forgiven “in the age to come”), Luke 17:19-31 (Jesus hadn’t risen, so Abraham and Lazarus are not in heaven, and the rich man is clearly in hell), 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (salvation only after purification), 2 Maccabees 12:38-46 (unfortunately, the book was removed from the Bible by Luther, largely on account of this passage), 1 Peter 3:19-20 (“the spirits in prison”: not hell, for what good would preaching to damned souls do; not heaven, because heaven isn’t prison), Revelation 21:27 (nothing unclean enters heaven, period. Whether it be instantaneous or a drawn-out process, there is a step that purifies someone’s imperfections between death and entry into heaven).

The Celibate Priesthood: Jesus was celibate, and the priest acts in persona Christi, the person of Christ. They also model the call of St. Paul (also celibate): 1 Corinthians 7:25-38, see especially the end of v. 38.

Indulgences: 1 Peter 4:8, James 5:20, and 2 Corinthians 2:5-11 in reference to 1 Corinthians 5:3-5.

Hope that helps. Any questions?

VERY GOOD Thanks for the post!