I'm ok with hell

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Neithan

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Scrupulosity seems to be an intensely difficult cross to bear for many Catholics, and in some tragic cases threatens or causes an abandonment of faith. Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it. That is a strategy that has given me tremendous peace of mind in my life. So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it. If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
 
Neithan said:
Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it … So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it … I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
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It doesn’t sound spiritually healthy to me.

With all due respect, I don’t hold up the teachings of Dale Carnegie (or any other secular sales coach or motivational speaker) as a model of the spiritual life. I prefer to follow Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Catholic Church.

We do not need to live in “aggravated fear” of hell if we are doing our best to live in conformity to Christ’s teachings. Nevertheless, I could never “accept” that I might possibly end up in hell. That means that I would “accept” the possibility that I would voluntarily deeply offend God and eternally separate myself from Him whom I love dearly. That is not an acceptable option for me.

To say that “if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it” makes little sense to me. There is plenty we can do about it — love God, do the best we can to follow His commandments, and have recourse to the Sacrament of Reconciliation when we fall into sin.

The kind of fear we are looking for is the fear of offending Someone we love, holy reverence combined with trust in His mercy should we fall from time to time.

“So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)
 
Well said PhilotheaZ…

I think if I understood the very smallest jot of Who God Is…my most smallest imperfection would break my heart. When I look at a crucifix I see what sin has done…what my sins have done. What a horrible and dreaded sight! But also when I look at a crucifix I see what Love has accomplished…what Love of me has accomplished… and what an awesome and heartbreaking sight!!! To read an account of Roman crucifixion is a fearful read indeed.

When Jesus said from the Cross “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”. To my mind one of the things Jesus was referring to was the very fact that we do not know Who It Is offend when we sin…we do not understand at all the true nature of sin and God in His Mercy spares us this. To know what sin actually is, I needs insight Who God Is.

No, I dont find anything about Hell ok…neither for myself nor for anyone. It is another fearful consideration. We are balanced between our Hope of Heaven and our Fear of Hell…and as long as life is in us the balance can be tipped either way…“lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil”.

What is it that motivates me: What is in it for me? …or what?
If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.
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…if I am reprobate, then Dear Lord please grant me to amend matters and quickly please! … your statement that if you “are among the elect that you cannot damn yourself”…is not this the very heresy of antinomianism you hope not to fall into? Rather if you are among those who will enter Heaven, you** will not** give cause to condemn yourself to Hell (to state the obvious) - not that you could not.

Blessings and regards - Barb:)
 
Neithan, I don’t think it’s healthy; it’s like being a baseball player who can’t catch flyballs giving up and saying, ‘I can’t catch any flyballs; might as well accept that.’

You won’t actually catch flyballs if you merely think you’re doomed to be rather inept and that you can’t change; you need to have that fighting spirit, so to speak. The belief that you can change by persevering (and with a lot of help from your trainer, of course).

This life is a life of warfare. Are you going to drop your sword and say, ‘It’s no use. No matter what I might do, the Enemy’s going to get me so might as well get used to it’?

Those who get to Heaven get there since they persevere on good, ‘working out their salvation in fear and trembling’, those who have won the race, not because of some random chance or thinking pessimissively.
 
Hi Nethan;

I don’t know if it’s healthy to be under or over scrupulous…I think it IS healthy to realize that we will all make mistakes, and will sin at some points in our lives. It’s the lack of remorse for mortal sin that will land us in Hell…someone correct me if I’m wrong about that. That being said, it should be easy to keep track of those. lol:o One would hope so, anyways.

I hesitate to ‘just accept’ Hell as a possibility, because…what can happen, is that we will develop an indifference to sin, and just say…whatever…I sinned, if I end up in hell, oh well. Not saying you will fall prey to that, but it can happen, when we become under scrupulous. I think it’s important to be repentant when we sin, but not to the point of forgetting Jesus’ death on the cross as our redemtion’s beginning. That is what secures our future…following Christ, will naturally cause us to turn our sinful selves around (of course only through God’s grace) to God’s righteous way.

I think that it’s healthy to not obsess about it. I will say that. I think there was a saint who used to walk out of the confessional, and then think a bad thought instantly, and run right back in. LOL That’s obsession.😃 But, I am fond of that saint…ugh, I can’t think of his name now.🤷
 
Neithan said:
Scrupulosity seems to be an intensely difficult cross to bear for many Catholics, and in some tragic cases threatens or causes an abandonment of faith. Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it. That is a strategy that has given me tremendous peace of mind in my life. So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it. If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
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Look what I found for you, Neithan…it’s like today’s gospel reading and reflection on www.wau.org is just for you! This totally sums it up best!!🙂

Tuesday, November 13, 2007

***Meditation
Luke 17:7-10

Readings

If Jesus were the master in this parable, how do you think he would treat his servants after a hard day’s work? Would he really ask them to wait on him first, and let them eat when he was finished? Probably not. Jesus is more like the master whom Jesus describes in another parable: “Blessed are those servants whom the master finds vigilant on his arrival. Amen, I say to you, he will gird himself, have them recline at table, and proceed to wait on them” (Luke 12:37).
Although the master in today’s reading is not Jesus, he is there to make a point: Because our God is so merciful, we should be careful not to take the wrong attitude toward him. On the one hand, we don’t want to be too scrupulous. We can become too critical of ourselves, or of others who might slack off or act selfishly. On the other hand, we don’t want to be too casual. We can become lazy and discouraged, too overwhelmed by the work before us to roll up our sleeves and begin. Since we can’t accomplish everything, we end up doing nothing!

What’s worse than doing too much or too little, however, is to become resentful. We can develop a martyr complex, letting everyone know how hard we are working. We can grumble about being overworked and unappreciated. We can keep careful account of our service, and mistakenly think that God owes us something. We sometimes forget that we owe him our very lives! He forgives us not because we deserve it but because we are his children, and he wants to reach out to us with his everlasting love.

All these are the attitudes of slaves, not sons and daughters! Slaves don’t know their masters, but Jesus has called us his friends (John 15:15). As humble servants in the Lord’s vineyard, we know we can never earn our salvation or repay him for what he has done for us. Knowing this should free us to serve him with no strings attached. He wants us to take risks for him, and not to live in fear anymore. All we have to do is go forward, and leave the results to him!***
 
patrick457 said:
Those who get to Heaven get there since they persevere on good, ‘working out their salvation in fear and trembling’, those who have won the race, not because of some random chance or thinking pessimissively.
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I agree, and I still treat my life as a pilgrimage to heaven; it’s just that I do not have anxiety about hell. I’m not saying “I’m going to hell, so to hell with virtue” or anything like that, but only that I have come to a better understanding that the fate of my soul is ultimately up to God, so why worry about it?

My ‘fear and trembling’ is before God’s judgment and mercy, not my own weakness and sin.
 
Neithan said:
… but only that I have come to a better understanding that the fate of my soul is ultimately up to God, so why worry about it?

My ‘fear and trembling’ is before God’s judgment and mercy, not my own weakness and sin.
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If one truly knows that God is merciful, he should pray hard and ask God to help him love God with all his heart.

The more one loves God, the less Ok he is with Hell.
 
i got this in an email …it is quite long so i will post it in several posts

HEAVEN & LIMBO

“Behold what manner of charity the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called, and should be the sons of God. Therefore the world knoweth not us, because it knew not Him. Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when He shall appear, we shall be like to Him: Because we shall see Him as He is.” (1 John 3:1-2)

1,What is Heaven? The place of perfect happiness in the next world.
“Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for those that love Him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9)

2,Who will go to Heaven? Only those who have Sanctifying Grace in their souls at the moment of death.
“Then shall the king say to them that shall be on His right hand: Come, ye blessed of My Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” (Matthew 25:34)

3,What is the happiness of Heaven? It will consist in seeing God face to face and possessing Him in divine love.
“We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part: But then I shall know even as I am known.” (1 Corinthians 13:12)

4,Why is the happiness of Heaven perfect? Because God made you for Himself and you can find perfect satisfaction in Him alone.
“Thou hast made us for Thyself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.” (St. Augustine)

5,Will everyone have the same happiness in Heaven? No, the happiness of some will be greater than that of others, but everyone will be as happy as he can be.

6,Why will some have greater happiness than others? Because some will see God more clearly.
“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will render to every man according to his works.” (Matthew 16:27)

7,Why will some see God more clearly? Because they died with more Sanctifying Grace on their souls.
“And every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labor.” (1 Corinthians 3:8)

8,How, then, should you spend your time on Earth? Try to get as much Sanctifying Grace in your soul as you can before you die.
“Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the Son of man will give you.” (1 Corinthians 3:8) “The night cometh, when no man can work.” (John 9:4)

9,Will there be any sorrow or pain in Heaven? No, nor will there be any sickness, temptation, or sin, but complete, unending joy.
“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more.” (Apocalypse 21:4)

10,Will you know your family and friends in Heaven? Yes, and also the Angels and Saints.
“Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners: But you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God.” (Ephesians 2:19)

11,What would keep you from getting into Heaven? Dying with a serious (mortal) sin on your soul.
“And there shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.” (Apocalypse 21:27)

12,How often should you pray to get to Heaven? Every day, since getting to Heaven is the purpose of life.
“As the heart panteth after the fountains of water; so my soul panteth after Thee, O God. My soul hath thirsted after the strong living God; when shall I come and appear before the face of God?” (Psalm 41:2-3)

EXPLANATION OF LIMBO
What is Limbo exactly? The residence of those souls excluded from Heaven through no fault of there own; because of the ancient belief that it was situated near the confines of Hell. Theologians distinguished a two-fold Limbo: the Limbo of the Fathers (Limbus patrum) , where the just that died before Christ, were detained until Heaven, which had been closed in punishment for the sin of Adam, was reopened by the Savior, Jesus Christ; and the Limbo of infants (Limbus infantium), where those who die in original sin, but without personal mortal sin, are deprived of the happiness which would come to them in the supernatural order, but not the happiness in the natural order.
What is the chief difference between Heaven and Limbo? The souls in Heaven see God face to face; whereas, those in Limbo do not. Seeing God face to face is called the Beatific Vision. It contains all possible happiness and is unending.

PRACTICAL POINTS
1.You will never get bored or used to heaven because God is unlimited in every way. Nothing on this earth can completely satisfy you, whether it is money or fame or pleasure, since everything created is limited.
2.Thinking often of Heaven, putting it before everything else, will give you the correct scale of values, as well as peace of mind in this world.
 
HELL
“The Son of Man shall send His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all scandals, and them that work iniquity. And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42)

1.What is Hell? The place in the next world where the souls of the damned are condemned to suffer forever with the devils.
“If any one abide not in Me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth.” (John 15:6)

2.How do you know there is a Hell? The Bible and Tradition (and Jesus too) often speak of the everlasting punishments of Hell.
“Then He shall say to them also that shall be on His left hand: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. And these shall go into everlasting punishments: But the just, into life everlasting.” (Matthew 25:41-46)

3.Who will go to Hell? Those who die with mortal sin on their souls, that is, without Sanctifying Grace.
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the pool of fire.” (Apocalypse 20:15)

4.Does anyone ever get out of Hell? No, Hell is a place of “everlasting punishment.” (Matthew 25:46)
“And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night.” (Apocalypse 14:11)

5.What are the pains of Hell? Separation from God, torture by fire, regret, and the companionship of the devils.
“Before I go, and return no more, to a land that is dark and covered with the mist of death: a land of misery and darkness, where the shadow of death, and no order, but everlasting horror dwelleth.” (Job 10:21-22)

6.What is the pain of separation from God? To be separated from God, the Source of all love and happiness, will be the greatest pain in Hell.
“The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven, with the angels of His power: In a flame of fire, giving vengeance to them who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

7.Is there real fire in Hell? Yes, Jesus often spoke of the “unquenchable fire” of Hell and says that the damned souls will be “salted with fire” (Mark 9:43), which is “everlasting fire” (Matthew 25:41).
“If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth.” (John 15:6)

8.How does the fire of Hell differ from the fire here on earth? The fire in Hell burns without consuming (it does not burn up your body, so the pain never ends) and can torture not only the body but the soul as well.
“Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.” (Mark 9:47)
“Humble thy spirit very much: For the vengeance on the flesh of the ungodly is fire and worms.” (Ecclesiasticus 7:19)

9.What is the pain of regret? The pain of regret means that you will be tortured forever with the thought that you had so many chances to save your soul and be happy with God, but lost Heaven because of mortal sin.

10.What is the pain of companionship of the devils? Your companions in Hell will be the devils and the other lost souls, who will always hate you and mock you for being such a fool.
“Then He shall say to them also that shall be on His left hand: Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Matthew 25:41)

11.Are the pains of Hell the same for all? All the souls in Hell will have the same type of punishment, but the degree of suffering will differ according to the number and kind of sins committed.

PRACTICAL POINTS
1.Think often of Hell and the possibility of your going there. Pray every day that you will not die with mortal sin on your soul. Say the Act of Contrition every night:
“O my God, I am very sorry for having offended Thee, and I hate all of my sins, because I fear the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because my sins offend Thee, my dear God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to confess my sins, do penance, and amend my life. Amen.”
2.Presumption is the sin committed by people who think that a good God will not punish a sinner with the torments of Hell. God, being a just judge, has to reject those who choose to separate themselves from Him by mortal sin.
3.The horror of Hell helps us understand the evil of mortal sin. Mortal sin is the greatest evil in the universe.
 
PURGATORY
“And the day following Judas [Machabeus] came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers. And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: So that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain. Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought Him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead), and because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.” (2 Machabees 12:39-46)

1.What is Purgatory? A place and state of temporary punishment in the next world. Hell, on the other hand, is a place of eternal or everlasting punishment.

2.What does the word “Purgatory” mean? It means “cleansing” (or “purging”). Purgatory is a place where the soul is cleansed of unforgiven venial sin and/or the “debt” of sins already forgiven but not yet made up for.
“If any one abide not in Me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth.” (John 15:6)

3.How do you know there is a Purgatory? The constant teaching and practice of the Catholic Church, based on the Bible and tradition, and even common sense, prove the existence of Purgatory.

4.How does common sense indicate the existence of Purgatory? Only people with mortal sin go to Hell, and on the other hand, no one can enter Heaven with even the smallest sin. Therefore, there must be a place in the next world where lesser sins can be taken off the soul.

5.Who will go to Purgatory? People who die with Sanctifying Grace in their souls, but –
who die with venial sin on their souls, or
who have not completed (satisfied for) the punishment still due to their already forgiven sins.

6.What is meant by the “punishment still due to sin”? This means that, even though God forgives your sins, He still requires that you be punished for them (i.e. “pay” for them), either in this life or in the next.
For example: A boy playing ball in his yard breaks his neighbor’s window. He goes and tells the lady he is sorry, and she forgives him but she tells him he will still have to pay for the window.

7.Do you suffer in Purgatory? Yes. Besides not being allowed to see God face to face, the souls in Purgatory suffer a great deal. “The fire of Purgatory”, says St. Augustine, “is more terrible than man can suffer in this life.”

8.How long will you have suffer in Purgatory? That depends on the number and seriousness of the sins to be atoned for.
“My soul hath thirsted after the strong living God; when shall I come and appear before the face of God.” (Psalm 41:3)

9.Where do you go when you leave Purgatory? To Heaven to see God and enjoy Him forever.
“Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not come out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.” (Matthew 5:26)

10.Will Purgatory ever end? Yes, at the Last Judgment. After that all souls will be in either Heaven or Hell forever.

11.Can you help the souls in Purgatory? You can shorten their stay by having Masses said for them, by praying for them and by doing good works for them.
“Have pity on me, have pity on me, at least you my friends, because the hand of the Lord hath touched me.” (Job 19:21)

12.Does the Bible say anything about praying for the dead? Yes. We read that Judas Machabeus, “sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifices to be offered for the sins of the dead.” (2 Machabees 12:43)

13.How can you avoid Purgatory? Avoid even the smallest faults, do penance for sins already forgiven, gain indulgences and receive Extreme Unction

PRACTICAL POINTS
1.All Souls’ Day is the day set aside by the Church for special prayers and Masses for all the souls suffering in Purgatory. It is celebrated every year on November 2.
2.The souls in Purgatory cannot help themselves. We should help them by our prayers and sacrifices. They, in turn, can and do pray for us.
3.The souls in Purgatory are known as the Poor Souls
 
maybe this link will help you…but whatever you do…don’t give up…i truly believe that if we want to be saved then we will be because as soon as we desire forgiveness and mercy god will grant us it…therefore those that give up are in effect turning away from god and putting themselves in hell…say lots of little prayers that are a few words long…you can pick one from a website or make your own up and use it to build your faith up…you can word it to whatever you are praying for/about aswell…
i will say a prayer for you…i hope you get through this…

catholiceducation.org/article…cs/ap0090.html

ANGELIC PEACE
 
What do you think God would think if he heard you say, “I am okay with hell.”?

What do you think Satan would think if he heard you say, “I am okay with hell.”?
 
I’ve never been scrupulous but many years ago, I feared (as so many people do) that I might have committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. But when I recovered my faith, I realized that I would “be OK with” condemnation by God, who IS God, who is righteous, just, merciful and loving, because He is God and I am not.

With that recognition (it was a REALLY big grace!), I stopped worrying about it altogether. Once you know Who is God and who is not, you can stop trying to do His job for Him. You can stop acting as your own judge and you can love Him freely, for Himself, and not fear Him for what He can do to you if you mess up.
 
Neithan,

I hope you realize that the devil has intelligence far above anything we can imagine as mortals. In his hatred for God and God’s children, he uses the most subtle arguments, not excluding the truths of scripture, to deceive us and capture his prey.

One of the fallacious reasonings is in accord with your thinking, and it is a dangerous trap. St. Teresa of Jesus wrote about the temptation she had to abandon prayer. Satan convinced her she was unworthy of it, so she decided it was best not to engage in it. Yet that was her greatest downfall spiritually which would have cast her into the abyss. When she woke up to the deception, this became the essence of her relationship with God and ultimately her deep sanctity, and she never abandoned prayer ever again.

I fell into a similar trap when I was a teenager. In religion class, I learned that when a soul committed a mortal sin, they were no longer in the state of grace. When I fell into one, I reasoned that, oh well, I might as well keep committing them until the next confession, since it doesn’t do any good anyhow while I’m out of the state of grace.

Consider the example of a smoker who resolved to quit cigarettes. When he fails in his resolve and lights up a single cigarette, he goes out and buys a carton of cigarettes since he no longer kept up his resolution. Or a dieter who snuck one chocolate and then eats the whole box.
What happens when the smoker buys another carton is that he becomes more and more addicted and entrenched, so that any future resolve to quit becomes almost impossible to realize.

And that’s exactly the position of mortal sin. It blinds us so completely and robs us of supernatural strength to fight, so that we become more and more entrenched in vicious habits.

Your being ok with hell is a very dangerous compromise which will drag you one day into deeper error and deception; you may one day hit the pit of despair and fail to lift yourself into hope. Please talk this over with a spiritual director/priest and abandon this logic ASAP!
 
…the fate of my soul is ultimately up to God, so why worry about it?..
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Neithan,

As I understand it, the fate of our souls is up to ourselves. Do we choose God, or turn away? Our greatest deeds are not enough to make us worthy of heaven, and our worst sins are not enough to put us in hell. It is in the simple act of asking God, in the utmost sincerity, to have mercy on us, that we may have granted our greatest desire - to be forever with the One who made us.

My favorite prayer these days after I realize I have been a horse’s a**: “My Jesus, mercy”. Repeated as necessary.

God bless, Tim
 
Neithan said:
Scrupulosity seems to be an intensely difficult cross to bear for many Catholics, and in some tragic cases threatens or causes an abandonment of faith. Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it. That is a strategy that has given me tremendous peace of mind in my life. So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it. If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
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I would like to make a few comments

Firstly - there is NO such thing as being among the “elect”. The elect are those who elect to love God with all their heart and soul. If you wanna know whether your among the elect or not, look at your heart and soul and ask yourself - does my heart beat for God alone, does my soul live by and for His love alone? Their the ONLY people who get into heaven

Secondly - to live in constant fear of God is not faith and not what God desires of us. I am glad your not living in fear because I would go so far as to say that living in fear of God is a sin - it mocks His mercy and exhibits you do not trust in Him. God wants you to trust Him and make Him a part of your life, your soul, your destiny, your eternity. HE wants to BE your life, your soul, your destiny your eternity

Thirdly - I would suggest you be careful you don’t become indifferent from such a philosophy - God wants you to live and love passionately, with all your strength, all you heart, all your mind.

That’s my little (name removed by moderator)ut. (I am not Catholic - just so you know in case you were particularly after a catholic perspective on this spirituality)

Love God & Trust Him ❤️
 
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Joysong:
Your being ok with hell is a very dangerous compromise which will drag you one day into deeper error and deception; you may one day hit the pit of despair and fail to lift yourself into hope. Please talk this over with a spiritual director/priest and abandon this logic ASAP!
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Isn’t this rather alarmist? I’m not giving up on prayer or the sacraments or piety or virtue in general. I’ve merely found a certain peace in knowing that my destiny is ultimately in God’s hands; though my free will is important, I am completely dependent on God’s grace.

I will discuss it with a spiritual director, though, as soon as I find one.
 
mercygate said:
I’ve never been scrupulous but many years ago, I feared (as so many people do) that I might have committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. But when I recovered my faith, I realized that I would “be OK with” condemnation by God, who IS God, who is righteous, just, merciful and loving, because He is God and I am not.

With that recognition (it was a REALLY big grace!), I stopped worrying about it altogether. Once you know Who is God and who is not, you can stop trying to do His job for Him. You can stop acting as your own judge and you can love Him freely, for Himself, and not fear Him for what He can do to you if you mess up.
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Right, you understand. 🙂

Is the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit (such as presumption, despair, impenitence, obstinacy, unbelief, envy) even possible in someone who fears it?
 
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