I'm ok with hell

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Neithan said:
Isn’t this rather alarmist? I’m not giving up on prayer or the sacraments or piety or virtue in general. I’ve merely found a certain peace in knowing that my destiny is ultimately in God’s hands; though my free will is important, I am completely dependent on God’s grace.

I will discuss it with a spiritual director, though, as soon as I find one.
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I believe you are completely dependant on God for salvation, but only in the sense that human actions are not enough to warrant heaven themselves. Your ultimate destiny is in your hands, not God’s.
 
Neithan said:
Scrupulosity seems to be an intensely difficult cross to bear for many Catholics, and in some tragic cases threatens or causes an abandonment of faith. Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it. That is a strategy that has given me tremendous peace of mind in my life. So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it. If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
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No
For one “hell” is eternal separation from God , if you don’t care at all where you end up when you die it could affect the way you are living your life now. Its true that we shouldn’t be putting too much emphasis about where we might end up because that is up to God to judge us, but as Christians we must want to be with God and grow in God’s love and live out our lives in perfect imitation of Christ and in doing so we will be more conscious of our sins and want to repent and make our life better.

Trust me, you would be better off trying to better your life and aiming for Heaven ( or in other words because you Love God you would do anything to grow in your faith and act as a christian on earth and end up in eternal life with God) then not living in fear about the life you’re living and end up in hell ( eternal separation from God)

Hope that helps…

God Bless,
Podo2007
 
I am okay with Hell too, but only in the sense that it is real.

Your ideas, however conflict with logic/reason/apostolic faith

Not sure where you are coming from, but it aint catholic orthodoxy.
Neithan said:
Scrupulosity seems to be an intensely difficult cross to bear for many Catholics, and in some tragic cases threatens or causes an abandonment of faith. Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it. That is a strategy that has given me tremendous peace of mind in my life. So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it. If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
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Neithan said:
Scrupulosity seems to be an intensely difficult cross to bear for many Catholics, and in some tragic cases threatens or causes an abandonment of faith. Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it. That is a strategy that has given me tremendous peace of mind in my life. So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it. If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
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Anathama!
 
Podo2005 said:
For one “hell” is eternal separation from God , if you don’t care at all where you end up when you die it could affect the way you are living your life now. Its true that we shouldn’t be putting too much emphasis about where we might end up because that is up to God to judge us, but as Christians we must want to be with God and grow in God’s love and live out our lives in perfect imitation of Christ and in doing so we will be more conscious of our sins and want to repent and make our life better.

Trust me, you would be better off trying to better your life and aiming for Heaven ( or in other words because you Love God you would do anything to grow in your faith and act as a christian on earth and end up in eternal life with God) then not living in fear about the life you’re living and end up in hell ( eternal separation from God)

Hope that helps…

God Bless,
Podo2007
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Not sure why you said ‘No,’ but I agree with your post 100%. 👍

I *do *care where I go when I die - but I’m not going to agonise over it. That’s what I’m saying. As Christians we ought to have an inner peace and not suffer in intense fear of hell. Fear of hell is a good thing in itself, a grace even; but where I’m at is ok with the possibility of it, to avoid excessive anxiety. My intention is to curb a potential for scrupulosity, which is so damaging to the faith of many good and pious souls, and something that I personally feel susceptible to. I also think it is humble to accept the fact that one might indeed end up in hell, regardless of where one is currently in their spiritual life!

Every Catholic should ask themself if they have accepted the possibility of damnation for themselves - really and truly understood that they have no absolute assurance of their own salvation until death. In this case it is good to know that our election or reprobation is in the eternal providence of God, so that we do not put overmuch burden on our own frail nature.
 
Hellisreal said:
I am okay with Hell too, but only in the sense that it is real.

Your ideas, however conflict with logic/reason/apostolic faith

Not sure where you are coming from, but it aint catholic orthodoxy.
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Sure it is. It has a decidedly Thomistic slant to it - but I’m sure it’s well within the bounds of orthodoxy.
 
Is this attitude designed to help you deal with a fear of some completely hypothetical, unknown future stupid decision you might make with your free-will, or is this attitude designed to stave off despair in the face of repeated grave matter sin on a regular basis or some sin that you see coming up next week that you think you won’t resist?

If it is one of the latter, I’m a little worried that you are brushing your conscience under the rug with regard to the particular sin that you have in mind. If it is the former, then remember to be glad of your free will. It is there so that you can love God. It isn’t some arbitrary, uncontrolled mechanism to damn you. Having free will is rather nice. 🙂 (I have trouble remembering this.)
 
I think PaniRose was responding to the bolded and highlighted heresy in the post., not to you personally. 🙂
Neithan said:
Anathema?

:eek:

:signofcross:
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I apologize if I said this is not orthodoxy but- can you tell me how you feel your thoughts are within orthodoxy, I am interested in your basis.
 
Neithan said:
Every Catholic should ask hemself if they have accepted the possibility of damnation for themselves - really and truly understood that they have no absolute assurance of their own salvation until death. In this case it is good to know that our election or reprobation is in the eternal providence of God, so that we do not put overmuch burden on our own frail nature.
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We do have absolute assurance of salvation if we die in the state of sanctifying grace. We may have to go to purgatory, but we will eventually gain heaven.

I’m guessing that you are approaching the issue from the standpoint of a scrupulous person having trouble determining if he is in the state of sanctifying grace. This is indeed a problem, but with enough reflection a person, even a scrupulous person, should be able to determine whether an action meets the criteria for mortal sin through reason. How a person emotionally feels about the action is irrelevant.
 
That is a very, very healthy outlook, and here is why.
Living in fear is never healthy. God is a force of love and light in your life, and your faith in him should never cause you fear. Being OK with Hell is not the same thing as being apathetic of it. Living your life the way you feel is right is the best one can hope for, except the hope that you live it in accordance with the catholic faith.
Acknowledging Hell, and abandoning prayer are two different things. Pray regularly, and live your life as best you can, and I think you will be all right.
 
I’m OK with hell. That it exists? Well, of course, even though it is unpleasant, it is; and the mind must accept reality to be sane. Everything else is spinning your wheels.

That I might go there? I don’t worry about that. I love God and trust His mercy when I have my sins forgiven. I will still love God and trust His mercy when I stand before the Throne. A lifelong habit! Good practice for that moment, eh?

Now if I have been deceived, or got it wrong somehow, and God still decides that I’m a goat and going to Hell, I’m OK with that too. Because God is good and I love Him and His judgments are far more valuable than me. If that’s what He wants, then so be it. May He be praised today, tomorrow, and ever more.

Hopefully the fact that I love and praise God even in the moment of being damned will make me undamnable?! Sort of a paradox. But that’s still casting my trust in an “out” and hoping to get off the hook.

I really don’t worry my pretty little head over this sort of stuff. I am a daughter of the King.
 
Sometimes I think that when we die, we are given a video tape (dvd. computer chip?) that contains every moment of our lives on it. Every bad deed, every nasty act, every moment of grace, etc.
And Hell is having all this played before you and Heaven is being allowed to view the edited version.
 
Hellisreal said:
I think PaniRose was responding to the bolded and highlighted heresy in the post., not to you personally. 🙂

I apologize if I said this is not orthodoxy but- can you tell me how you feel your thoughts are within orthodoxy, I am interested in your basis.
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I don’t see any heresy in what I’m saying. Please point it out to me specifically?

My belief that my fate is ultimately in God’s hands is supported by St. Thomas in his Summa on predestination.
 
kentuckyliz said:
I’m OK with hell. That it exists? Well, of course, even though it is unpleasant, it is; and the mind must accept reality to be sane. Everything else is spinning your wheels.

That I might go there? I don’t worry about that. I love God and trust His mercy when I have my sins forgiven. I will still love God and trust His mercy when I stand before the Throne. A lifelong habit! Good practice for that moment, eh?

Now if I have been deceived, or got it wrong somehow, and God still decides that I’m a goat and going to Hell, I’m OK with that too. Because God is good and I love Him and His judgments are far more valuable than me. If that’s what He wants, then so be it. May He be praised today, tomorrow, and ever more.

Hopefully the fact that I love and praise God even in the moment of being damned will make me undamnable?! Sort of a paradox. But that’s still casting my trust in an “out” and hoping to get off the hook.

I really don’t worry my pretty little head over this sort of stuff. I am a daughter of the King.
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Very well said!
 
Neithan said:
Scrupulosity seems to be an intensely difficult cross to bear for many Catholics, and in some tragic cases threatens or causes an abandonment of faith. Personally, I have come to accept that I may possibly end up in hell. Dale Carnegie said the best way to deal with worries was to accept the worst possible outcome, and then improve upon it. That is a strategy that has given me tremendous peace of mind in my life. So it is with hell. I do not live in aggravated fear of it, and simply accept that if I were to end there, then there really was nothing I could do about it, and that I deserved it. If I am a reprobate, then so be it. Of course, I pray that I am saved and hope to not fall into antinomianism, but I don’t live in scrupulous fear of my every sin, knowing that if I am among the elect, then I cannot damn myself.

Do you think this is a healthy spiritual outlook?
Click to expand...
No, it’s not healthy…And you won’t be “Ok” with hell when you get there. It will be HORRIBLE.

You need to develop a friendship with God. I don’t think you really know Him that well yet.
 
Hellisreal said:
antinomianism, ? That was in blue.
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Right but I mentioned that as a kind of attitude that I deliberately avoid, so as not to give the wrong idea. I certainly don’t believe that I am exempt from the moral law; but if God predestines me to salvation, then He will give me the grace to die in a justified state. Luther’s error was believing that justification is simply ‘imputed’ to us, so that our own individual moral actions are of no real consequence.
 
Jacafamala said:
No, it’s not healthy…And you won’t be “Ok” with hell when you get there. It will be HORRIBLE.

You need to develop a friendship with God. I don’t think you really know Him that well yet.
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Indeed. ANGELIC PEACE gave a pretty thorough summary!
Of course we’ll hate God if we end up in hell. We’re not there yet! :gopray:

I definitely don’t know Him as well as I would like to. Do any of us?
 
Neithan said:
Right but I mentioned that as a kind of attitude that I deliberately avoid, so as not to give the wrong idea. I certainly don’t believe that I am exempt from the moral law; but if God predestines me to salvation, then He will give me the grace to die in a justified state. Luther’s error was believing that justification is simply ‘imputed’ to us, so that our own individual moral actions are of no real consequence.
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I was only saying that Pani Rose was likely responding to that word.

Not you.

Get it now?
 
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