I'm Pagan...

[East_and_West]

I try to respect that, although with the corruption in the church, we can see that not everyone can, treat other as you would like to be treated.

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I am sorry buddy, but the “corruption” in the church doesn’t even begin to compare to the corruption found in paganism throughout the ages and that is a historical fact. You ever heard of the cult of Molech? Babies thrown into fire pits as sacrifice. What about the Aztec Pagans? Human sacrifice abounded among them. During the night of Darkness, 80,000 people were sacrificed, in one night, their very hearts cut out. Thank God for sending the Spanish people to crush this evil empire.

 

[buffalo]

Not that I am surprised, but you don’t want me to seek the truth - you want me to find your (apodictic) truth.

Not at all - you are biased in your search for you have set preconditions.

 

[East_and_West]

If anything me finding this forum is an attempt to teach a lession, and by Odin’s guidance I will fight the ignorance that I am now faced with.

Odin? How do you even know he exits? Thomas Aquinas proved that an all Good, all knowing, all loving, unchanging, infinite, perfect God exits. Doesn’t sound like Odin to me kid. Btw, I play D and D so I understand your facination with mythogology, but seriously, in our modern age you believe in Odin?

 

[buffalo]

The Irrational Ahteist

 

[East_and_West]

I am not a satanist, I am mildly offended, ish. I don’t really care, it is what media has portrayed. I am no Satanist, and hold my action to high moral standards. I am no witch, but my specific path is of no consiquence. What matters is the basic message.

I wonder if you Catholics even understand the way Pagans see you! You would be amazed, We all respect you, but very few will let the beast into their hearts. I will try not to speak for all, but I know that I see the basic believes in Catholicism are good, they try to spread love and peace amounst fellow man. Yet they start wars, alienate whole peoples and destroy lives through corruptions within the Church. They say that God si for America, and they believe that to be true. If God is specifcally for America, then he is Specifically against everyone else.

I don’t see how this helps your argument, as in the past, when pagans had more “political” power, they too have started wars, conquered peoples, and, to add to the list, practiced human sacrifices.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Odin? How do you even know he exits? Thomas Aquinas proved that an all Good, all knowing, all loving, unchanging, infinite, perfect God exits. Doesn’t sound like Odin to me kid. Btw, I play D and D so I understand your facination with mythogology, but seriously, in our modern age you believe in Odin?

East and West, Pagan Fury has moved on, having stated he was only hear to cause a little trouble, see our reactions and learn how to counter argue.

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Please remember your charity when posting here.

:tsktsk:

 

[Contarini]

Odin? How do you even know he exits? Thomas Aquinas proved that an all Good, all knowing, all loving, unchanging, infinite, perfect God exits. Doesn’t sound like Odin to me kid. Btw, I play D and D so I understand your facination with mythogology, but seriously, in our modern age you believe in Odin?

I think the “modern age” argument is a bad one. Lots of secularists are surprised that in the modern age we believe in God.

That being said, your distinction between God as defined by monotheism and a god such as Odin is a very important one. No one claims for Odin what we claim for God. We claim that God is Being, period. Not a god, not just another powerful being out there, but Being.

I can understand the appeal of polytheism, and I applaud modern pagans/heathens for bucking the chronological snobbery that says that polytheism is no longer valid in the modern world. But there are questions that a polytheist has to answer–what is behind the gods? What is the ultimate reality that undergirds the universe? Here’s where the “chronological snobbery” has a point: modern revivers of ancient European polytheism can’t simply ignore the centuries of reflection on the nature of reality that have gone on both in Western monotheism and in the Eastern religions, any more than they (or we) can ignore the conclusions/theories about reality proffered by modern science. You can’t (with any kind of intellectual integrity) simply say “there are all sorts of gods–you worship the Christian god but I don’t like him, so I’ll worship Odin instead”). Some “heathens” seem to be doing that, and it reveals a complete lack of understanding of what classical monotheism is claiming in the first place.

Edwin

 

[East_and_West]

That is the stuff I’m talking about! the most recent posts, I am not some confused little child, how dare you. I am a man who has fought and run for his life.

I don’t think that people believing you to be confused is an insult. We believe in the truth of the Catholic faith and, thus, we believe that those who are reject the Catholic faith are in error, just as you believe us to be in error for embracing Catholicism. By definition, anyone who believes something is true that is actually false, is confused. By this logic, you believe us to be confused and we believe you to be confused. It has nothing to do with insulting one another. It is simply a status of opion. I am in no way offended that you believe me to be confused.
As for being a child. You are 17. You don’t support yourself. You dont’ have a career. How can you claim to be a man? Again, this is not an insult. I don’t expect a 17 year old boy to be a man. Its not his time yet.

I have told my parents that I’m gay, it was hard for them but they love me too much to let that get in the way. When I told them I was Pagan however, my mother being Christian almost lost it.

I don’t have to tell you that she spent many a hour telling me how wrong I was, how everything she was taught told her to reject me, for being completely against her religion.

Sounds like your mom loves you. Now hear me out on this. As Catholics, we do believe that Jesus is God and that he is the true fulfilment of human desire. That being said, your mom does not want you to miss out on this and, I am sure, will do anything to keep you from missing out. She wouldn’t be a good mother if she didn’t do what she believes is best for you.

I swear to your God, the first one to say that this thread, or my religion steams from family/ life issues will get a bible so far up their ***.

I don’t have any experience with this but sounds uncomfortable.

I am trying to stay civilized, but it is so hard when I am looked down upon and thought to be a child. I am not confused.

I don’t know why you take that as an insult. You believe us to be confused, and you most certainly are not a man yet. That’s not an insult. Its just where you are in life. No worries.

The days in my youth spent crying because I was gay and God hates fags, that, THAT MY FRIENDS was fear and confusion.

You are right. That was fear confusion. God does not hate fags. He loves every single one of them just as much as he loves the Pope. I should know. I am one of those fags. I just don’t practice homosexuality anymore.
But God loves us too much to approve of us living a life style that is self destructive. Trust me man. I lived the gay life. Its a messed up place to be. Even form me, who was one of the more “moral” gays who lived in a monogomous relationship. It was still not an ok place. We can talk about this over PM if you want.

The warm night and happy days under the glow of the Goddess are what I now have, comfort, Strength. I am no longer weakened, frightened or scared. This is me and I am Pagan.

Sounds like you gave up the masculine God who does call us to a higher place, that calls us to be willing to die for love of him. You replaced him with the softer, easier path, with the femenine goddes that makes no real demands on you. I would be fascinated to see understand the psychology of how this might relate to your homosexuality. Again, not a criticism as I am gay as well.

Yes, the pagans would accept you but I have been explicitly asked, and I agree with the thought, that I should not deffer to any of them.

Really? Most of the pagans I know attack the Christian faith and Christians in general. They make generalizations and biggotted statements about Christians. But I realize that my experiences are limited. I suspect, that just as there are good and bad Catholics, there are good and bad pagans.

Also the friends I spoke of are regular heterosexual people at my school. They are not Pagan, they know me however and support me because they know me and the good person I am.

I am glad you have loving friends. But the funny thing is that your friends support you because they know you to be a good person. God, on the other hand loves us in spite of the fact that he knows we are not good people. We are all messed up. We are all broken. He sees every evil thing we do, and still loves us. That is real love. And, what is more, he loves us so much, even in our brokeness, that he doesn’t wan to leave us broken, but wants to fix us, even if that process isn’t completed until after you die. You see, your friends misunderstand love. You are broken, as are all of us, and they celebrate it and they love you because they think you are good. God loves you more. He want’s to begin healing your brokeness and loves us all even though we are not so great.

I break my code of ethics by being here, and making this thread. But AGAIN, I have my reasons, this is something I must do and endure.

May you find blessings and truth on your journey.

 

[East_and_West]

I need not repent, for my soul is safe as is. I believe not in the Devil nor hell, your Heaven is as your hell to me, nothing.

Just because you have a large book, doesn’t mean the word is absolute, the bible is written by men, therefore it is flawed, biased, and is not at least totally historically accurate. Besides, it is your book of faith, to me it is words with a silent and meaningless tongue speaking them.

Aquinas produced some really amazing proofs for the existance of God. There are pretty darn good historical arguements that the New Testament is historically accurate and that Jesus did rise from the dead. There are good historical arguements that Jesus established the Catholic Church. Paganism can offer nothing like this.

 

[East_and_West]

And Jesus was defeated by a few planks of wood

Are you serious? Are you serious? I am gonna nominate this for the most ridiculous post of the year award. Christians are often accused of being simple minded. But Mortis, you have out simple minded the simple minded hear.

 

[East_and_West]

In the past pagans were searching for the truth. Today’s pagans reject truth.

Fan of G.K. Chesterton?

 

[East_and_West]

Oh, I know some real pagans. And they don’t sacrifice babies to anyone so they are probably not that real. Maybe they are only playing their worship.
But so does each and every Christian I have ever met. They are just playing their worship, but do not really follow anything Jesus has said. Like not pulling splinters out of other people’s eyes, or keeping in mind that rituals are not more important than faith.

Ok, so here we have the generic self righteous atheist. See how predictable his posts are gonna be.

 

[East_and_West]

Bring who back? Pagan Fury? He is gone, he said himself the only reason he was here was to goad Catholics into a fight to try to gauge the arguements we’d use. He’s stated that his jobs done and hes probably off goading Muslims into a fight as we speak.

Give me a break. No one is completely gone until the moment of death. There is quite a bit of hope for our young friend Pagan Furry.

 

[buffalo]

Fan of G.K. Chesterton?

Yup!

 

[East_and_West]

That’s because paganism is not a single religion but a variety of religions. For some people (not referring to you now, but to some others posting in this very thread) it is of course easier to divide humanity into just two fractions - my religion = good, the rest = evil.

Atheists do it all the time.
“Atheists = smart. Religious People = dumb.”

 

[po18guy]

Ill just let you sit on the knowledge that I am 17, male. I have a boyfriend, whom I love and do naughty things to in public settings. I strongly dislike the Catholic church in that they have kept me down, and my strong Pagan ties have given me stablilty and strength through the hardest of times. All without God, Jesus, or Jehovah, bet you didn’t know that was possible.

May be wondering why a Pagan is coming onto a Catholic forum, well… I’m not begging for my soul, I’m returning the favor. Too many Catholic visit the Pagan forum and tell us what sinners and heathens we are. In fact many of us aren’t Heathen in that, Heathen is a completely unique spiritual path, like druidism, Witchcraft, etc.

On that note, I open the floor to you all, and finger my pentacle lovingly as I wait for responses.

You are completely free to be Pagan in this life. At some point in your life, you will begin to wonder about the afterlife. It is then that the concept of loving or fearing God may appeal to you. I am not a judge, but I am called to lead others to the truth.

Peace.

 

[East_and_West]

Don’t worry, I do.

Here’s some truth: e^(i*pi) = -1

Aquinas used deductive proofs, just like mathematicians do, to dmeonstrate the existance of God. Here is another truth for you:
sin^2(u) = (1-cos(2u))/2

 

[East_and_West]

Not that I am surprised, but you don’t want me to seek the truth - you want me to find your (apodictic) truth.

No. I think he is just suggesting that you be rational. That’s all.

 

[mmm1]

Give me a break. No one is completely gone until the moment of death. There is quite a bit of hope for our young friend Pagan Furry.

Hi, East and West. Actually, LDNCatholic was trying to tell Americus1, & then you (post # 206) that PaganFury has left the building. He left the thread yesterday or Saturday. He said he came to gain some experience defending Odin, & left. Hope he’s OK.