I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[pro_universal]

Good point BUT in the latest twist of bizarre conspiracy theories supported by people such as Rosie O’Donnell who ranted about it on a program and some other crack pots…we did just that. According to their theories GWBush blew it up and that is why the building fell odwn as if in a controlled explosion and then we pinned it on some poor Muslims.

I feel song a coming on by Godlen Earring…“I’m stepping in to the Twighlight zone,”:whacky:

Or maybe it is an undiscovered plot of the Jeusit/Knights of Columbus/Masonic conspiracy to dominate the world. Hmmmmm

Rev North

Countries bombed by the US in the past 25 years:

Grenada
Panama
Libya
Iraq
Iran
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Serbia
Nicaragua
El Salvador

Do all of those bombings bother you? Is the US ‘collectively responsible’ for all civilian deaths in those campaigns?

Wait, let me guess: they were all perfectly justified…right?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

The majority of Indonesian moslems condemn terrorism. They are the Muhammadiah and the Nahdlatul Ulemas. Together, they represent almost 100% of Indonesian moslems.

It might be better if Muslims repudiate the hateful and violent teachings of Muhammad against disbelievers instead of telling us that they are against terrorism.

Please erase the jihad verses of the Quran - that might convince us of the genuine feelings of Muslims in repudiating terrorism.

One the one hand you do not repudiate these hateful and violent verses but instead condone, support and teach them to the next generation of Jihadists, and then tell us you repudiate terrorism.

There is a saying: don’t pee on me and tell me it’s raining.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Elaborate.

If I keep getting recyclyed arguments I will just ignore you.

Sorry, Generic Man; But I won’t give you a lesson on a platter. You’ll have to do your own research.

If you want a hint on where to get started, then may I suggest you start researching Islam’s lone messenger; Muhammed. For he alone is the founder of Islam and he alone has brought everything Islamic to us.

 

[pro_universal]

The majority of Indonesian moslems condemn terrorism. They are the Muhammadiah and the Nahdlatul Ulemas. Together, they represent almost 100% of Indonesian moslems.

You will find that some people on this board will try to convince you that you don’t know your own neighbors just because of their religion. I’m happy to see that you are getting along with them all.

 

[pro_universal]

Sorry, Generic Man; But I won’t give you a lesson on a platter. You’ll have to do your own research.

If you want a hint on where to get started, then may I suggest you start researching Islam’s lone messenger; Muhammed. For he alone is the founder of Islam and he alone has brought everything Islamic to us.

What research did you do on Muhammad?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Countries bombed by the US in the past 25 years:

Grenada
Panama
Libya
Iraq
Iran
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Serbia
Nicaragua
El Salvador

Do all of those bombings bother you? Is the US ‘collectively responsible’ for all civilian deaths in those campaigns?

Wait, let me guess: they were all perfectly justified…right?

Is bombing of neighbouring countries a part of the US Constitution like jihading the infidels a part of the Quran?

 

[Generic_Man]

Sorry, Generic Man; But I won’t give you a lesson on a platter. You’ll have to do your own research.

If you want a hint on where to get started, then may I suggest you start researching Islam’s lone messenger; Muhammed. For he alone is the founder of Islam and he alone has brought everything Islamic to us.

OK, if you won’t back up your argument I will discard it.

 

[Zooey]

It was a very angry post, yes. But nothing about my post changes in that light.

All Muslims are terrorists? Are you being hyperbolic are are you honestly such a fool? And are you insinuating that since they’res not as much anti-terrorism remarks from Muslims (or maybe those are just ignored, you know the MSM loves to hate them) they deserve no respect or tolerance or civility?

Re-read my post, please. I distinctly said, that not all Muslims are terrorists.
I simply pointed out, what seems to be forgotten in this discussion: While not all Muslims are terrorists, nevertheless, all terrorists (who we are dealing with in 2007) are Muslim.

And from where I sit, the MSM does its best to bend over backwards to appease the radical Muslims. Its the Christians (Catholic, Protestant,& Orthodox), that the media delights in skewering. Endlessly.
You seriously need to wake up & smell the coffee, my friend. And pray for all you’re worth, that the Muslims you defend, never get ahold of wherever you live, because you are NOT going to like it.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Countries bombed by the US in the past 25 years:

Grenada
Panama
Libya
Iraq
Iran
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Serbia
Nicaragua
El Salvador

Do all of those bombings bother you? Is the US ‘collectively responsible’ for all civilian deaths in those campaigns?

Wait, let me guess: they were all perfectly justified…right?

What in the name of baloney does that have to do with my Post above.

I never said the US was perfect. Are you someone who just discovered Sociology 101 and feels like you are going against the capitalistic right wing establishment? These thoughts are NOTHING new, genuine topics of conversation and they were discussing it way before my time and during my time in college in the late 80’s.

It has nothing to do with my post. What in the heck does it have to do with the threat of radical Islam in the world. If you tell me the US or Pat Robertson and Fox news is as big a threat I will fall on the floor

Rev North

 

[pro_universal]

What in the name of baloney does that have to do with my Post above.

I never said the US was perfect. Are you someone who just discovered sociology 101 and feels like you are going against the captialistic right wing establishment? These thougths are NOTHING new, genuine topics of converstation and they were discussing it way before my time and during my time in college in the late 80’s.

It has nothing to do with my post. What in the heck does it have to do with the threat of radical Islam in the world. If you tell me the US or Pat Robertson and Fox news is as big a threat I will fall on the floor

Rev North

The point was that it’s irrational to judge an entire people based on bombings committed by members of (some) of their groups.

Using the same logic that some on this thread are using to condemn all of Islam, one could conclude that the entire population of the United States is warmongering and dangerous. Since that conclusion is obviously absurd, it should tell you something about the thought process used to achieve it.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I’m ignoring you… your last post is pure bigotory.

How is it pure bigotry to tell the truth? Did the Muslims rampage and kill and burn embassies instead of conducting a dialogue with Pope Benedict?

What is the Muslim definition of dialogue? Is this it?

Abu Dawud 2998
They (i.e. the Jews of Bani Nadir) sent a message to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him): Come out to us with thirty men from your companions, and thirty rabbis will come out from us till we meet at a central place where they will hear you. If they testify to you and believe in you, we shall believe in you. The narrator then narrated the whole story.

When the next day came, the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) went out in the morning with an army, and surrounded them.

He told them: I swear by Allah, you will have no peace from me until you conclude a treaty with me. But they refused to conclude a treaty with him. He therefore fought them the same day.

Look here how the rabbis wanted to conduct a ‘dialogue’ with Muhammad but his definition of dialogue is to bring his army and fight them.

 

[dparker]

Dparker,

Can you please name one large Muslim organization that **has not condemned terrorism **publicly?

If you can’t name such an organization, then where do you come up with the basis for your claim that Muslims don’t condemn terrorism?

Lip service for Western consumption is not what I mean by speaking and working against the Radicals.

What has any large Muslim organization done to combat Radical Islam? Instead, they spend their time (CAIR is a great example) nitpicking anything in the West they can find to deny the threat from within their own culture.

Somewhat similar to your original post. What have you done to speak out against these fundamentalist that are supposedly “hijacking” your peaceful religion, instead of coming to a Christian forum and making accusations of bigotry.

We are not your problem. Our faith tradition values Free Will. When was the last time a Christian (anywhere in the world) was jailed or killed for converting to another faith?

Replace “Christian” with “Muslim” and even you know the answer to that question, don’t you?

 

[Generic_Man]

Re-read my post, please. I distinctly said, that not all Muslims are terrorists.
I simply pointed out, what seems to be forgotten in this discussion: While not all Muslims are terrorists, nevertheless, all terrorists (who we are dealing with in 2007) are Muslim.

Dang it! I meant to say that all terrorists being Muslims is completely foolish. My mistke it was a typo.

And from where I sit, the MSM does its best to bend over backwards to appease the radical Muslims. Its the Christians (Catholic, Protestant,& Orthodox), that the media delights in skewering. Endlessly.
You seriously need to wake up & smell the coffee, my friend. And pray for all you’re worth, that the Muslims you defend, never get ahold of wherever you live, because you are NOT going to like it.

The MSM doesn’t just hate Christians. There is in fact an anti-Muslim bias. The Muslims I defend getting a hold of me? I’m defending the ones who are peaceful and good, that was obvious. I have nothing to worry about them.

 

[RevDrNorth]

The point was that it’s irrational to judge an entire people based on bombings committed by members of (some) of their groups.

Using the same logic that some on this thread are using to condemn all of Islam, one could conclude that the entire population of the United States is warmongering and dangerous. Since that conclusion is obviously absurd, it should tell you something about the thought process used to achieve it.

i) Neither I nor most people here are judging all of Islam.

ii) There is a radical element in Islam that is a threat to civilization. That was correctly deduced by the Holy Father.

iii) Comparing US mistakes with radical Islam is niave, ridiculous and soooo misguided. That reminds me of people with their heads buried in the sand as Hitler, WWII, and the holocaust got under way. Thank God there were forwarding thing people like Churchill, and Dietrich Bonheoffer with foresight and intellectual fortitude to correctly assess the situation. While others fiddled, pontifcated, minimized, excused and so on.

Rev North

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

GM
Why don’t you ask your peaceful and good Muslims to repudiate the ‘jihad the infidels’ verses from the Quran?

Then and only then will they be truly peaceful and good.

By supporting, condoning and teaching these ‘jihad the infidels’ verses to other Muslims, including the next generation, aren’t they perpetuating the ‘hate the infidels’ teachings of Muhammad?

It is not necessary for someone to murder to be considered evil - people who teach, condone and support other people who murder are also responsible, don’t you think?

Or do you think only those murderers who actively pull the trigger or slit someone’s throat are responsible.

 

[Proletarian]

i) Neither I nor most people here are judging all of Islam.

ii) There is a radical element in Islam that is a threat to civilization. That was correctly deduced by the Holy Father.

Rev North

Isn’t this all the OP was trying to say? If so, what the heck are we arguing about?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Absolutely, I’m always eager to learn about other peoples and cultures. However I sincerely doubt you are qualified to give me such a lesson. What are your credentials? Why should I consider you an authority on Islam?

Hi again, Proleterian; Allow me to remove all your doubt and say I have no such credentials or authority. I never implied that I did. And I never implied that I would give you the lesson.

I am just challenging you to get a lesson.

 

[Bishopite]

Is bombing of neighbouring countries a part of the US Constitution like jihading the infidels a part of the Quran?

Our Christian beliefs supercede governmental actions; politics are mere human inventions Christianity is directly from God who says we are to sacrifice ourselves and submit to them unless their laws directly contradict God’s moral law of justice and that’s why we Christians don’t go around and kill ourselves unjustly in suicide bombings which murder the inocent including the poor children. And for what its worth to you, the US makes great effort in bombing military targets and avoiding civilian casualties, however colateral damage is an unfortunate part of blowing things up. And if the US purposefully targeted civilians in the countries it has bombed there wouldn’t be any buildings left standing.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

What research did you do on Muhammad?

Hi pro_universal;

The challenge should be set to the submitter of the original post. Not me.

 

[famdigy]

Hey Generic Man,
thanks for creating this thread. Many people on this board don’t know anything about Islam other than what they read in the anti-Muslim websites. You would be surprised at what you might learn if you read about Islam from Muslim sources or visiting a mosque in your neighborhood. We are much more alike than you would think, my in-laws are devout roman catholics from eastern Europe, my side of the family are devout Muslims from East Africa. Even though we are from two very different cultures and religions, we share a lot in common by way of life experiences and family circumstances.