I'm sick of the rabid Islamophobia on these boards...

[cyberjacques]

Here’s an interesting thought. Everyone keeps going on and on about “radical Islam”, referring to the animals that want nothing more than to destroy everything good and right in this world. As if this behavior is somehow deviating from their standard operating procedure. If there is one thing I’ll give to Islam, it’s consistency. Ever since its establishment, it has remained true and faithful to its ideology of hate and pain and death. Islam is a poison. The current trend of Islamic violence is nothing new. The people responsible for it are the TRADITIONALISTS! If anyone should be called “radical”, it’s that truly tiny minority of Muslims who DON’T subscribe to the traditional doctrine of evil.

And if you really want to continue fooling yourself into believing that they aren’t a minority, think about this. If the psycho Muslims are so tiny a percentage of the world’s Islamic population, how exactly are they getting away with it? If there truly are entire free nations of tolerant, peace-loving Muslims, why do they not only allow, but promote and facilitate the most unspeakable horrors in their own countries? Why has this supposedly peaceful majority not risen up and crushed the “radical” elements of their faith in righteous fury over the slandering and pollution of Islam? Every time a peaceful people is unfortunate enough to produce a rogue violent element, they are always the first to try and put a stop to it. Do Christians remain silent when some moron bombs an abortion clinic, or murders a gay man? No! They are the first to actively denounce the atrocity AND the person who committed it, and attempt to make amends.

So where is the outcry from this vast number of peaceful Muslims? Where are the rallies and the marches, the demonstrations by Muslims who are sickened by the evil committed in their name, demanding that it end? Where is the mobilization from Islamic states, prepared to crush those who dare take the name of Allah in vain? Even those Muslims who have been blessed with the privilege of being born and raised in truly free societies haven’t even done so much as issue a firm scolding to the animals that threaten all of humanity. They aren’t even willing to SAY they disagree with such behavior. And those precious few that do? They are ostracized from their mosques, threatened with violence, murdered, tortured, and put on display, so all the world can see what happens to those who betray the Religion of Peace. And not even their own families, provided they’re still alive, say a word about it.

Islamophobia. I’d like to think that I don’t hate anyone, but am I afraid of Islam? Darn straight I am. And anyone who isn’t has drunk far too deeply of the Politically Correct koolaid. Radicals… Let’s hope there’s more where they came from.

 

[Montalban]

If Muslims have told you that they are your enemy, then you must love them, as Our Savior told us to love our enemies.

Cool But we must recognise what they’re saying

 

[nonsumd]

Cool But we must recognise what they’re saying

Who is this Muslim “they” that has a single voice saying one thing to us?

We can see polls showing that a majority of Muslims “understand why Muslims terrorists do what they do,” but we should be comparing this with citizens of a country acquiescing to their government’s use of violence, not to Christians condemning extremist Christians. The relation between politics and religion in Islam differs from that in Christianity.

Many Muslims see themselves as victims and as such can call themselves “people of peace” while condoning violence (“in self-defence”) without seeing the contradiction. However, this type of double-think is far from confined to Muslims.

Americans are so comunally and personally invested in a righteous self-image that they cannot imagine how many non-Americans can view them as oppressors and aggressors (hence that “why do they hate us?”).

I point this out without claiming that non-Americans are purely victims and not also in many cases also oppressors and aggressors themselves.

 

[Montalban]

Who is this Muslim “they” that has a single voice saying one thing to us?

They is that group that holds to a particular set of beliefs, by which they belong to - by virtue of being part of that group!

The very fact we can talk about a group of people called “Muslims” means that they must have something in common with each other - else they’d not be a ‘group’.

And Islam’s common belief is the fruits of Jihad; that is to struggle to spread Islam is a sacred mission of Moslmes. Jihad meaning ‘struggle’ can be by many means INCLUDING, though not exclussively, through violence, including terror.

The Koran talks about the ‘terror’ they struck in people’s hearts. And evidences the massacre of the Banu Quaresh.

We can see polls showing that a majority of Muslims “understand why Muslims terrorists do what they do,” but we should be comparing this with citizens of a country acquiescing to their government’s use of violence, not to Christians condemning extremist Christians. The relation between politics and religion in Islam differs from that in Christianity.

Many Muslims see themselves as victims and as such can call themselves “people of peace” while condoning violence (“in self-defence”) without seeing the contradiction. However, this type of double-think is far from confined to Muslims.

Americans are so comunally and personally invested in a righteous self-image that they cannot imagine how many non-Americans can view them as oppressors and aggressors (hence that “why do they hate us?”).

I point this out without claiming that non-Americans are purely victims and not also in many cases also oppressors and aggressors themselves.

Moslems do indeed see themselves as victims because their mind-set starts at the axiom that they are right… and any ‘attack’ on them is an ‘attack’, and any ‘attack’ by them a justified reaction.

I don’t know what Americans have to do with out conversation.

 

[ilmor]

Muslims kill. Their religion says they must kill if necessary to take over the world. It also says they must take over the world. They believe it is their destiny. They train their school childrent to kill. They stap homicide bomb backpacks onto cartoon characters. On top of that, no prominent Muslims have truly spoken out against the actions of the terrorists. If they have, please show me, in writing. If they’ve said anything they have danced around the issue w/ non-speak. So, I should trust any of them? NOT. But, I will pray for them, that they may find the way of God and true salvation.

 

[nonsumd]

They is that group that holds to a particular set of beliefs, by which they belong to - by virtue of being part of that group!

The very fact we can talk about a group of people called “Muslims” means that they must have something in common with each other - else they’d not be a ‘group’.

There are a billion Muslims in the world, as diverse and divided along sectarian, national, ethnic, class, and other lines as the two billion Christians are.

Can you really say that they all have exactly the same beliefs and interpret or live out those beliefs in the same ways?

And Islam’s common belief is the fruits of Jihad; that is to struggle to spread Islam is a sacred mission of Moslmes. Jihad meaning ‘struggle’ can be by many means INCLUDING, though not exclussively, through violence, including terror.

“Jihad” has a range of meanings, and not all Muslims consider “armed struggle for the faith” to be its primary meaning. When Muslims perceive themselves to be under threat (as when non-Muslim armies invade their lands), they are apt to describe their struggle against those invaders in terms of a “war against the infidels.”

The Koran talks about the ‘terror’ they struck in people’s hearts. And evidences the massacre of the Banu Quaresh.

Not all Muslims take these verses as a license for aggression against non-Muslims.

 

[Aramis]

“Who is ‘they’?”

In my case, every muslim male adult I’ve knowingly interacted with face to face over the last 30 years… All have said that they will take up the sword if they get the chance.

Some restricted it to anti-Israel, as did Ali Muhammet al-Beheshti, who worked at a Catholic Church. Or the chap on the bus, Farouk, who decided one day to spend his PFD check and fly to Gaza to kill israelis. (don’t know if he did, but after that decision, never saw him again.)

Others, like the parents I’ve dealt with, have threatened my life simply for being Male, a teacher, and “openly” Christian… one saw me reading to a child in the office, and then noticed a cross under my shirt… and stated a desire to kill me, thwarted by the Law. Another said, upon first meeting, “If you so much as touch my daughter I will kill you.” Yet another said, just before being removed from the building, that “all must convert or die! Allah has willed it!”

Still others come from the news. May be a bit of a dead horse… Muslims put in power radicals like Khomeini… and muslims keep Iran going. Saudi is a Monarchy with democratic process… and yet it is staunchly muslim, and violently represses any non-muslim religion and its faithful…

Or the rebellion by Muslims in the Philippines. Or the violent Jyhadis attacking catholics and protestants in Malaysia. Or the violence by the Taliban upon their own for laxity in submission to Islam. Or genocide by Muslims in the balkans. Or the riots in France. Or the Muslim-Christian warfare in Nigeria. Or in Chad. Or in Ethiopia.

And to GM:
A phobia is an unreasonable fear. Fear of Islam is not unreasonable given the ever mounting evidence.

 

[obadiah]

Not just on Non-Catholic Religions, but what feels like every single board people are saying how all muslims are violent people who want to take over the world. Get a freaking grip. Everyone should just admit right here they hardly know anything about Islam apart from what they hear on the news about the latest body count from the Middle East. There are muslim terrorists and there is brutal sectarianism. Christians too have done these things in the past. Does that justify it? No but it should tell you something: that there are good and bad people of all faiths. Do you not know that there are many Muslims who despise all of this stuff? Probably not, most of you guys would likely rank them along with Santa Claus and Bigfoot.

I took shahada back in 1978, I’ve read the Qur’an many times.
I even went on haj to Mecca. Islam is a violent religion. I know. I used to confer with Egyptian Muslims about going to Afghanistan for jihad. Don’t lie to these Christians about the violence of Islam.

 

[nonsumd]

(cont.)

Moderate Muslims feel caught between extremist Muslims and Western powers whom they don’t see as innocent of oppressing and attacking Muslims.

Westerners should be able at least to admit that they have played a part in bringing chaos to most of the Islamic world in the past two centuries. If Westerners are not honest about the wrongs they have done, how can Muslims, the weaker party globally, be expected to look honestly at themselves and admit their own faults and crimes?

For a great many, if not most, Muslims Islam is a political community almost in the same way as for Americans the USA is a political community – the amount of righteous dissent and protest in both political communities is not that different, both communities display group-think and punish those who do not toe the party line.

 

[Palladio]

Yes, Palladio. I hate Catholics. Although I myself am Caholic I still hate them anyway. Y’know? [/SARCASM]

I’m not hiding from anything. I’m merely suggesting we stop the gang rape mentality towards Muslims. I am not defending sharia law or terrorism. You’re jumping to conclusions.

Son, I’m starting to think you’re the one being condenscending.

There is being Catholic, and being intelligent. I have never felt Christ enjoined us to separate one from the other. Your disgusting and (name removed by moderator)enetrable term “gang rape mentality”–which you have repeated again and again–suggests you have a lot of work to do in learning about the world and in speaking to others. By visiting the Barnabus Fund, you could see why we Catholics in particular but Christians in general, too, see clearly the threats Islam poses, violent or no.

Instead of resorting to ad hominem and constant repetition, you could advance the conversation by doing a little serious reading and getting back to us.

God bless.

 

[obadiah]

Yes, Palladio. I hate Catholics. Although I myself am Caholic I still hate them anyway. Y’know? [/SARCASM]

I’m not hiding from anything. I’m merely suggesting we stop the gang rape mentality towards Muslims. I am not defending sharia law or terrorism. You’re jumping to conclusions.

Son, I’m starting to think you’re the one being condenscending.

If you hate the Catholic Church so much, and love to defend Islam, take shahada, go to the local masjid, and plot against western society. ALHAMDULILAH.

 

[nonsumd]

I took shahada back in 1978, I’ve read the Qur’an many times.
I even went on haj to Mecca. Islam is a violent religion. I know. I used to confer with Egiption Muslims about going to Afganistan for jihad. Don’t lie to these Christians about the violence of Islam.

So if a Muslim goes to fight atheistic communism, Islam is a violent religion, but if a Christian goes to fight atheistic communism, Christianity is not a violent religion?

I don’t think we can be so simple-minded as to label any religion as a “religion of peace” or a “religion of war.” And people who prefer such easy labels cannot not be said to be really interested in the dialogue that preserves or restores peace.

Even Buddhism has been enlisted time and again to justify wars of aggression.

People wage war for a variety of reasons; religion is only one of them and rarely the only one in motivating a particular war.

Communities of different religions live peacefully side by side for generations, then suddenly they’re at each other’s throats – have their religions changed or have other factors changed to trigger the outbreak of conflict?

 

[Brendan]

If Muslims have told you that they are your enemy, then you must love them, as Our Savior told us to love our enemies.

And part of loving them is teaching them to repent of their sins.

Anything less is hatred of them.

 

[obadiah]

So if a Muslim goes to fight atheistic communism, Islam is a violent religion, but if a Christian goes to fight atheistic communism, Christianity is not a violent religion?

I don’t think we can be so simple-minded as to label any religion as a “religion of peace” or a “religion of war.” And people who prefer such easy labels cannot not be said to be really interested in the dialogue that preserves or restores peace.

Even Buddhism has been enlisted time and again to justify wars of aggression.

People wage war for a variety of reasons; religion is only one of them and rarely the only one in motivating a particular war.

Communities of different religions live peacefully side by side for generations, then suddenly they’re at each other’s throats – have their religions changed or have other factors changed to trigger the outbreak of conflict?

You know as well as I do, that they were fighting to establish an Islamic society, If Russia had been a Christian Country at that time they would have fought against Russia just as much.
There can be no dialogue between Islam and Christianity, Islam wants to convert the whole world, by hook or crook. Nothing less will satisfy any muslim.
At best, Christians would be second class, at worst, there would be massive persecution and executions of Christians.

 

[nonsumd]

Or the rebellion by Muslims in the Philippines.

I am a Catholic Filipino. I am horrified, saddened, and, yes, angered by the terrorism of Muslim separatist groups like Abu Sayyaf.

But I have no trouble being honest and admitting that the larger Muslim population from which such groups stem has genuinely faced oppression and aggression from the Filipino state and displacement from their ancestral lands by Christian Filipino settlers.

The Christian Copts have been victims of Muslim power, but that does not mean that the Muslim Chechens have not been victims of Christian/ex-Christian power.

If each side in a conflict insists on seeing itself as the victim and refuses to see why the other side sees itself as a victim, then the cycle of revenge can never be broken.

Jesus taught that we are all sinners and that we should forgive our enemies even if they don’t reciprocate.

Remembering and living out His teachings is the narrow gate to true peace rather than mere pacification – there is no other gate.

 

[nonsumd]

You know as well as I do, that they were fighting to establish an Islamic society, If Russia had been a Christian Country at that time they would have fought against Russia just as much.
There can be no dialogue between Islam and Christianity, Islam wants to convert the whole world, by hook or crook. Nothing less will satisfy any muslim.
At best, Christians would be second class, at worst, there would be massive persecution and executions of Christians.

You haven’t answered my question: a Muslim goes to fight atheistic communism and so Islam is a violent religion, while a Christian goes to fight atheistic communism but Christianity is not a violent religion?

The way you talk about Muslims not being satisfied with less than converting the whole world, it seems to me that you would see extermination of all Muslims as the only solution.

Most Muslims express the pious hope that the whole world will some day be Muslim; Christians express the same pious hope for Christianity. It is only a fanatic minority that is willing (or deluded enough) to use armed force to realize that pious hope. Labeling all Muslims as fanatics is no the way to keep moderate Muslims from becoming radicalized.

I know that when I am insulted by non-Catholics applying anti-Catholic stereotypes to me I become deaf to my better self.

 

[obadiah]

You haven’t answered my question: a Muslim goes to fight atheistic communism and so Islam is a violent religion, while a Christian goes to fight atheistic communism but Christianity is not a violent religion?

The way you talk about Muslims not being satisfied with less than converting the whole world, it seems to me that you would see extermination of all Muslims as the only solution.

Most Muslims express the pious hope that the whole world will some day be Muslim; Christians express the same pious hope for Christianity. It is only a fanatic minority that is willing (or deluded enough) to use armed force to realize that pious hope. Labeling all Muslims as fanatics is no the way to keep moderate Muslims from becoming radicalized.

I know that when I am insulted by non-Catholics applying anti-Catholic stereotypes to me I become deaf to my better self.

If you are catholic, defend the Church, NOT ISLAM. I used to be muslim, if I were in a muslim country and declared my conversion to Christianity, I would be executed. Muslim apostates are executed every day. Don’t tell me about the pious hope of muslims. They want every misbeliever DEAD.

 

[nonsumd]

And part of loving them is teaching them to repent of their sins.

Anything less is hatred of them.

How did Jesus call people to repent of their sins?

At the point of a sword?

With arrogant and self-righteous words?

 

[nonsumd]

If you are catholic, defend the Church, NOT ISLAM. I used to be muslim, if I were in a muslim country and declared my conversion to Christianity, I would be executed. Muslim apostates are executed every day. Don’t tell me about the pious hope of muslims. They want every misbeliever DEAD.

I defend Catholicism all the time.

I do not defend Islam. I defend Muslims of good will as fellow human beings, as fellow children of God.

I prefer to follow Saint Francis and preach to the Muslim with my love and not with self-satisfied, hypocritical preaching.

I know lots of Muslims who do not want me or any non-Muslim dead.

Please do not pierce the heart of the Theotokos with your hatefulness, even if Muslims have hurt you personally.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<You know as well as I do, that they were fighting to establish an Islamic society, If Russia had been a Christian Country at that time they would have fought against Russia just as much.>>

What a silly thing to say!

Despite 70 years of communism, Russia was, is, and remains a Christian country the likes of which USA has no idea.