I'm socially liberal; is there room in Catholicism for me?

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giddyromilly

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In another thread I hashed out my decision to become a Catholic, but I also expressed my hesitancy and concern with a few policies the church holds that I find hard to support.

For example, I think abortion is a travesty, but I lay more blame at the feet of those who make women feel as if there is no other choice but to abort than I do at the feet of the woman herself. In cases of rape, incest, even elective abortion for financial reasons I find myself more upset at those who would make someone think there was no other recourse. Of course I wish that abortion would cease immediately, but fear that overturning Roe vs Wade would put a band-aid over a festering problem rather than curing it.

For this reason I support contraception use as a means to drastically reduce abortions, as well as comprehensive sex education and contraception accessibility (especially for the poorest and most vulnerable of people). Yes it would be ideal for those who are not ready to have children to simply abstain, but as experience shows that isn’t a reality for a staggering number of people.

I also love and support the relationships and marriages of my LGBT friends and family. I completely understand why such unions cannot be sanctified within Catholicism, but in a secular sense I want to live and let live.

As probably will not surprise anyone, I am a feminist. I find that feminists aren’t exactly celebrated in much Catholic literature I’ve found, mostly for the issue of abortion. A book called “The Anti-Mary Exposed: Rescuing the Culture from Toxic Femininity” comes to mind. I won’t push so far as to have women ordained, but I fear explaining myself to members of my parish in case I am shunned as a “baby killer.”

I absolutely believe everything in the Nicene Creed as well as the New Testament, and I am re-reading the Old Testament in the context of Jesus’s teachings to gain more insight. As far as dogma, am I compelled to support bans on abortion, contraception, and LGBT relationships in order to be a good, practicing Catholic?
 
Admittedly I didn’t read everything that you wrote.

The thing with Catholicism and correct me if I’m wrong …

It claims to be built by Christ.

So if it’s Jesus that is against abortion and gay marriage and other things … are you willing to submit to Him?

It’s not about pick and choose religion it’s about wanting to follow the truth.

🤷 ❤️
 
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If you asked this question to other liberal Catholics they’d tell you that you could join, but since you ask us, you will get a tougher answer

Have a read of the CCC on the topics you ask about. For contraception, try reading the encyclical Humanae Vitae from when the pill had just come out and the pope had to decide if t was ok (spoiler alert, it wasn’t). Then you can better understand what the church teaches and why.

I can’t really address your position on LGBT unions, since the desire to “stay out of it” is common to many people, there’s no obligation to be an activist against it.

But on abortion I will offer this argument. One of God’s commandments is “Thou shalt not kill / murder”. It’s not the sort of thing where you can say “I wouldn’t kill my own baby, but it’s okay if other people kill theirs”. What’s the difference if a baby is still dead at the end of it? This commandment needs to be applied on the level of society as a whole, not something that Christians practice privately
 
That’s a good point! I apologize if it sounds like I’m “shopping around” for a church. I’ve gone through the same interview-like process with a few other churches and am still wrapping my head around the concept of Catholicism. I can see why that would look irreverent.
 
I recommend you take some time to dive into these teachings and grok the basis for them. The opposition to contraception is not just a suggestion slip pulled out of a hat; the Catholic Church has a robust view of the whole human person as an embodied soul, and its teachings on sexuality, including contraception, flow from that view.

Disagreement with these views, to me, suggests that your basic view of the human person is at loggerheads with the view of the Church, and I think it would be worth your time to get to the bottom of what’s going on there.
 
In general, public authority is not required to punish every evil all the time. In its service to the common good, tolerance of some evils may be wise to achieve a greater good.

The problem with abortion is that it is by its nature contrary to the common good. The common good is defined as “the sum total of social conditions which allow people, either as groups or as individuals, to reach their fulfillment more fully and more easily.” Abortion, by its very nature, excludes a whole class of people from this (it is therefore opposed to both the common and the good). It is certainly commendable to try and eliminate it in more than one way, but i don’t see how toleration can be justified if we care about the common good.

When it comes to same-sex relationships, I think tolerance is certainly justified. The problem is, since authority comes from God, public authority may tolerate evil (as God does), but it cannot positively will it as a good. It has no authority to make it a public institution.

We should certainly love people in such relationships, and again, we can be tolerant, but love by its very nature excludes positive support for an objective evil. Willing an evil is never love.
 
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I come from a background where such things as contraception and LGBT relationships were taken as a matter of course, so to encounter otherwise is proving tough, especially when it’s the church I am growing to love. I’ll take that to heart and do some soul- (and book-) searching.
 
This is a self-indulgent post, but I was a lapsed Catholic for some time and very socially liberal. I remember vividly one afternoon prior to Palm Sunday 2015 when I was in the process of making my way back to the Church and preparing to make my first confession in many years. I was reading through confession guide pamphlets and became absolutely very incensed at some of the things listed as being in need of confession. I complained long and loud to my wife who was herself nearing the end of RCIA.

Now I have a whole different perspective on the things I once couldn’t believe the Church was “lecturing” me on.

I agree with LittleFlower378’s short and concise yes. However… don’t let these concerns act as roadblocks to your journey right now. You can go to mass, learn more, and even go through RCIA commitment free. If you think the Church has a strong claim to being the church established by Christ, but have trouble with some hard teachings, see where it takes you.
 
It sounds like you’re still just checking out the Catholic Church. Welcome!

I think the most important thing for you at this stage is to be open to where your investigating leads you. Look at exactly what the Church teaches about things like contraception, and—more importantly—why the Church teaches as She does.

It’s okay to ask these sorts of questions and struggle to understand. It’s all part of the process. Just keep praying, and keep learning. If you have specific questions, don’t be afraid to ask.

I’d also encourage you to connect with a priest at a local parish. Look into RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults).

You can ask questions here, too, just be prepared to get a lot of different views depending on how you ask your question. Some posters come on strongly if they feel like someone is questioning the Catholic faith. I think we all (mostly) mean well, though. 🙂

God bless you on your journey!
 
giddyromilly said:
I come from a background where such things as contraception and LGBT relationships were taken as a matter of course, so to encounter otherwise is proving tough, especially when it’s the church I am growing to love. I’ll take that to heart and do some soul- (and book-) searching.
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I think that’s a good approach.

Ironically, coming to agree with the Catholic teachings on sexuality (and, through those teachings, its teachings on the comprehensive human person) was the first thing that started drawing me towards Catholicism (though I am not yet becoming Catholic, because reasons).
 
Where is it precisely you draw the line on when your private beliefs must be imposed on the wider society? Abortion may be the far end of the spectrum, but like it or not, most Western countries are at least functionally secular, so the idea that the Catholic Church and some like-minded Christians in other churches take absolutist positions will run up against a wall of the public will. What happens when the wider society simply doesn’t agree with you?

Or flip it on its head. Would you like to live in a country where Sharia law is the law of the land, and regardless of your own views on religion, the state and the wider society impose Muslim law on you.

The whole nature of secularism isn’t to squelch religious beliefs, it’s to find a sort of lowest common denominator of common belief and purpose so restrictions on personal religious beliefs are kept to the barest minimum. Certainly one can exercise one’s right to protest abortion, but the idea that every Catholic, to be in good standing, has to wage open warfare and demand to have one’s own religious beliefs trump other peoples’ actions seems a pretty troubling one, and takes us back to the horrors of the Thirty Years War and the campaigns in both Protestant and Catholic countries against the “other side”.
 
niceatheist said:
Well, according to some, of course there is, so long as you vote Republican, lecture your LGBT friends, and, well, just drop the whole notion of being “liberal”.
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This is snide and unhelpful. Consider changing your username.
 
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giddyromilly said:
As far as dogma, am I compelled to support bans on abortion, contraception, and LGBT relationships in order to be a good, practicing Catholic?
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I am sure many will correct me if I am wrong on this, but my understanding is that you must accept that the Church has the authority to establish the dogma and accept the dogma even if you don’t really “understand” it, but nowhere does it say that you must march in every right to life event that happens in your area, or picket abortion clinics, or cut off contact with your gay friends who went through a civil ceremony and are recognized by the state as married to another person of the same sex, etc. It does mean that you personally cannot obtain an abortion, you cannot personally use artificial birth control, and that you personally cannot attempt marriage with another person of the same sex as you, nor can you encourage or assist anyone else to do any of those things.
 
What about prolife Atheists?🤔

Why is it okay for people of non religion to impose their moral views on society?

Doesn’t everyone push their morals on everyone? (No murder, stealing, ect?)🤷❤
 
Thank you very much! This was immensely helpful. I tend to have an all-or-nothing approach to things and worry about issues before they’re even a problem. I won’t let my petty worries dissuade me from learning as much as I can.
 
Thank you! So far I’ve only been met with kindness.
Joe_5859 said:
You can ask questions here, too, just be prepared to get a lot of different views depending on how you ask your question. Some posters come on strongly if they feel like someone is questioning the Catholic faith. I think we all (mostly) mean well, though. 🙂
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whatistrue said:
you must accept that the Church has the authority to establish the dogma and accept the dogma even if you don’t really “understand” it
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This is a very helpful answer, thank you.
whatistrue said:
you cannot personally use artificial birth control
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What is the church’s teachings on using it for medical reasons? I have a medical condition that is only kept under control by artificial estrogen, which happens to be the pill.
 
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