I'm socially liberal; is there room in Catholicism for me?

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HopkinsReb said:
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niceatheist:
Well, according to some, of course there is, so long as you vote Republican, lecture your LGBT friends, and, well, just drop the whole notion of being “liberal”.
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This is snide and unhelpful. Consider changing your username.
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Pot meet kettle
 
niceatheist said:
Catholic HAVE to vote Republican, or can a Catholic, on the balance, vote for a Democrat, knowing that that party, or at least a large majority of members, do not want to limit or end abortion?
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No, a Catholic does not have to vote Republican and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Read the document Faithful Citizenship on the USCCB website. It doesn’t tell us how to vote.

I do think that our elected officials need to hear from us— I have written to officials and candidates to tell them what I did and didn’t agree with in their positions. I’ve askes them to vote against or for bills. I think those who are Democrats need to work within their party to eliminate radical elements. As do Republicans.

Frankly I’m fed up with both parties and don’t exactly know what I’m going to do in the future.
 
niceatheist said:
And yet it’s the only gauge there is.
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In absence of God, sure.

Hence why “in absence of God, everything is permissible” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
niceatheist said:
The example of slavery is a good one
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The parallels with abortion are staggering

In both cases (slavery, abortion) you’re arguing that blacks/babies don’t have rights of full person.

See the pattern?
 
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LittleFlower378 said:
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giddyromilly:
As far as dogma, am I compelled to support bans on abortion, contraception, and LGBT relationships in order to be a good, practicing Catholic?
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Short answer, yes!
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I expect that the word “ban” was used a little loosely here, and you may not have intended it as strongly as this, but it’s worth pointing out there’s a significant difference between believing that something is wrong and supporting a “ban” on it.

The Catholic Church does not, in general, support legal bans on every matter on which it has a clear teaching. For instance it doesn’t support a ban on pre-marital sex or adultery, despite its clear teachings on these matters. There may have been times and places where it did (I am guessing) but it has to consider both what is practical and balance the costs of legal intervention against the benefit.

The church certainly supports a ban on abortion because of the grave evil involved and the loss of innocent life, but does not, AFAIK actively support bans on contraception or LGBTI activity. The Church encourages others to live by her teachings but does not attempt to forcefully interfere.

The OP should attempt to understand the Catholic teachings on these matters and avoid actively opposing them, but that does not mean she must support a ban.
JMMJ said:
I understand your concerns and your questions, as I am a liberal Catholic. Most here will probably tell you it isn’t possible. I will tell you what my monsignor/ pastor told me. He said he would much rather have me at the table, than not.

Don’t let others shame you because of what you believe. Be the best Catholic you know how to be and don’t worry about what others think of you. That is my best advice.
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I think this is great advice. The Catholic Church has always encompassed a wide range of personalities and beliefs, and sometimes they have difficulty getting on with each other but still we keep trying.

I wonder if the OP has issues with the American Catholic (and Protestant) “Right” who tend to be aggressive? This seems to be a particularly American thing and tends to polarise people. I’ve had issues with them myself and have been labeled a “liberal” by American conservative Catholics, which is apparently the most hateful of insults. The OP should be aware that this political division is a particularly American thing, and in other countries you’ll find Catholics are spread more across the political spectrum (although the issue of abortion in recent years is pushing more Catholics away from the leftist side).
 
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JMMJ said:
He said he would much rather have me at the table the way I am, than not.
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What good advice! Thank you very much for your help. I think in the end all we’re striving for is to be the best we can be.
 
giddyromilly said:
As far as dogma, am I compelled to support bans on abortion, contraception, and LGBT relationships in order to be a good, practicing Catholic?
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We are to be against abortion. That can take various forms, for some of us it means working to build a community where no woman every feels abortion is her only option.

For others they feel that work needs to be done politically.

The US Bishops have written a wonderful guide


This goes to the heart of things, the very basic line is imagine there are two candidates.

Sally Smith and Joe Jones

Sally Smith talks about “Pro Life”, yet, she is pro-war and believes that there should be no regulation on pollution.

Joe Jones says he is “Pro Choice”, yet he has stands on economics, war, wants to give parental leave to all parents, wants to increase opportunities for the disabled.

You may vote for Joe Jones over Sally Smith as long as your intention is for his stand on the other issues. You cannot vote for Joe Jones if you are doing so only because you hope he will make abortion legal at a Kiosk inside every mall. (Using hyperbole here to make a point).

Contraception is no longer illegal in the US. I have not heard of anyone pushing laws that would reverse Griswold v Connecticut. I doubt such a law would get even one supporter in Congress, or in any State legislature. You are pretty safe on that one.
giddyromilly said:
LGBT relationships
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Again, like Roe and Griswold, this is now established law in the US. I don’t think there are going to be laws presented to overturn in the US in our lifetimes.

We are called to love everyone, even gay or trans people.
 
1ke said:
I think that fully understanding Catholic teaching takes time.

If you are willing to assent to the teachings of the church even though you don’t fully understand or agree with them, and not promote ideas contrary to Catholic teaching, I think you would be able to enter the church.

If you can’t assent, I don’t think it would be prudent or honest to stand up and say “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.” And if that is so, you may need to delay (not abandon) becoming Catholic.
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This is what I had hoped to say as the most succinct response to the OP!

Eventually the OP will have to decide whether she can make the profession of faith you quoted, but she can take her time.

I recommend the OP read the very important teachings of the church on the primacy of conscience, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It’s a beautiful teaching.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm
 
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Edmundus1581 said:
This seems to be a particularly American thing and tends to polarise people. I’ve had issues with them myself and have been labeled a “liberal” by American conservative Catholics, which is apparently the most hateful of insults. The OP should be aware that this political division is a particularly American thing, and in other countries you’ll find Catholics are spread more across the political spectrum (although the issue of abortion in recent years is pushing more Catholics away from the leftist side).
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That makes sense. The past few years have divided the aisles even more than they already were, so much so that I don’t discuss my politics in my area at all for fear of starting a fight. That’s how friendships die. 😫 Thank you for your comprehensive comment! I’ll stick more tightly to the wordage that matches my intent from now on.
 
Thank you very much for your post. This helped me put it into perspective more. 🙌
 
I wasn’t really wasn’t speaking politically here. A Catholic cannot support abortion or same sex marriage or homosexuality in general or in their heart.

In politics it is a grave sin for Catholics to vote for laws or support laws that are can harm society like the intrinsic evils of abortion and same sex marriage. So one can have a calling for changing unjust laws in a great way, or one may not, but one must believe in the Church dogma on these things.
 
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Let’s tidy up the language. Contraception is an act or set of actions. It is always a moral evil.

Contraception can occur through medications or devices or medical intervention, with medications, they are morally neutral (same as a copper coil on my work table is morally neutral and removing a cancerous uterus is beyond morally neutral, it is morally good!).

You take a medication to treat a medical condition.
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
It’s arbitrary enough that it is meaningless.
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Not at all. As we get older we obtain more rights - fact of life.

When we get to a certain age we begin to lose them again.

Progressive personhood is part of the reality in which you find yourself.
 
giddyromilly said:
For example, I think abortion is a travesty, but I lay more blame at the feet of those who make women feel as if there is no other choice but to abort than I do at the feet of the woman herself. In cases of rape, incest, even elective abortion for financial reasons I find myself more upset at those who would make someone think there was no other recourse. Of course I wish that abortion would cease immediately, but fear that overturning Roe vs Wade would put a band-aid over a festering problem rather than curing it.
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I join you in believing that those who make women feel as if there is no other choice share the blame, I think that abortion is still murder and that it does more harm gthan good.
 
Yes, there is room for you. Unlike the political tents, Catholicism embraces all and it’s emblem is the Cross not an elephant or donkey.

The heart of the Gospel is love, forgiveness, charity with works of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison, and being the hands and feet of Christ in the kingdom here, now.

Welcome
 
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