Mark121359
Well-known member
I’d venture a guess and say less than 20%.
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Aquinas11
Guest
Irrelevant. Jesus preached to crowd and upon telling them his body and blood are required for eternal life, the crowd all started to leave. Disciples looked at Jesus and he asked them “are you leaving too?” He wasn’t playing a numbers game.
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Brendan_64
Guest
It depends what you mean. There is a difference between struggling to accept teachings and outright deliberate rehection of teachings.
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Limoncello4021
Guest
Consider the phrase often used: “faith seeking understanding.” Rather than come to a defined truth with a built-in spirit of rejection, come in openness of spirit and in prayer. If this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ and confirmed in his Truth, as we believe it is, we accept its authority even as we strive to understand, in prayer and study. We are not our own moral authorities but believe there is One who is the authority.
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Brendan_64
Guest
I don’t think you’re being irreverent. Indeed the secular world seems to tell us that what matters is what we think is right, it is all about us, our views, our desires, our ego. Accepting that we should submit our will to Christ and his Church and accepting that we do not know best is not easy, and it is counter to secular culture. It is a difficult process and one that does not happen overnight, but if we are not in a state of outright obstinate rejection and are willing to try to work towards accepting Chirch teachings then I think the person is on the right track. From your posts on this thread I do not see outright obstinate rejection.
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niceatheist
Guest
That’s a misrepresentation of the science. The science says that genetically it’s a member of homo sapiens. It does not confer personhood on a fetus, and historically, for the most part, personhood was not conferred until birth.
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ConstantlyConverting
Guest
“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
Find out what the CHURCH actually teaches and why.
Be careful of listening to anyone who defines themselves as liberal/conservative/traditional etc when it comes to matters of church teaching.
Pray to the Holy Spirit for inspiration and wisdom!
Stumbling blocks to stepping stones
― Fulton J. Sheen
Find out what the CHURCH actually teaches and why.
Be careful of listening to anyone who defines themselves as liberal/conservative/traditional etc when it comes to matters of church teaching.
Pray to the Holy Spirit for inspiration and wisdom!
Stumbling blocks to stepping stones
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
Good question. But it presupposes that everyone first agrees not only about what the teachings are, but what the teachings mean.
So, technically, the answer to your question is that we are probably more Jewish than we’d like to admit, and the percentage is zero.
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TheRoyalPain
Guest
I follow Jesus, therefore I follow the Catholic Church. Protestant churches are all off shoots of catholics that didn’t like certain things so they basically created their own church to do what they want.
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
Personhood doesn’t actually exist.
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niceatheist
Guest
That’s rather convenient. But obviously that’s not a view shared by many. As with all sorts of notions, like, say natural law, what we’re dealing with is human constructions trying to be passed off as irrefutable evidence.
At any rate, the fact is that most people in the Western world aren’t opposed to abortion in general, though views on late term abortion tend to be less supportive. So is it every Catholic’s job to shake their fist at every abortion clinic and make as much noise as possible? Is it possible to be a good Catholic and view some actions as sins, and yet not feel that one must be an activist?
That’s the question, and it’s a bigger question than it may seem, because suddenly it means does a Catholic HAVE to vote Republican, or can a Catholic, on the balance, vote for a Democrat, knowing that that party, or at least a large majority of members, do not want to limit or end abortion?
In my view, this is where certain kinds of Conservatives view religion as a means to bully co-religionist voters. I’ve seen it here (which was what I was alluding to my in my first post).
At any rate, the fact is that most people in the Western world aren’t opposed to abortion in general, though views on late term abortion tend to be less supportive. So is it every Catholic’s job to shake their fist at every abortion clinic and make as much noise as possible? Is it possible to be a good Catholic and view some actions as sins, and yet not feel that one must be an activist?
That’s the question, and it’s a bigger question than it may seem, because suddenly it means does a Catholic HAVE to vote Republican, or can a Catholic, on the balance, vote for a Democrat, knowing that that party, or at least a large majority of members, do not want to limit or end abortion?
In my view, this is where certain kinds of Conservatives view religion as a means to bully co-religionist voters. I’ve seen it here (which was what I was alluding to my in my first post).
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Bradskii
Guest
Let’s say reject.
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nightshade
Guest
Anyone ever googled the definition of concern trolling?
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JMMJ
Guest
I understand your concerns and your questions, as I am a liberal Catholic. Most here will probably tell you it isn’t possible. I will tell you what my monsignor/ pastor told me. He said he would much rather have me at the table the way I am, than not.
Don’t let others shame you because of what you believe. Be the best Catholic you know how to be and don’t worry about what others think of you. That is my best advice.
Don’t let others shame you because of what you believe. Be the best Catholic you know how to be and don’t worry about what others think of you. That is my best advice.
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Aquinas11
Guest
Majority of people in Western World also weren’t opposed to slavery at one point, so that’s hardly a reliably gauge for morality.
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Aquinas11
Guest
Of course a Catholic is free to vote for a pro-abortion candidate or a pro-life candidate.
What the Catholics is not free from is the consequences of that decision, given that one is a mortal sin and the other isn’t.
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1ke
Guest
I think that fully understanding Catholic teaching takes time.
If you are willing to assent to the teachings of the church even though you don’t fully understand or agree with them, and not promote ideas contrary to Catholic teaching, I think you would be able to enter the church.
If you can’t assent, I don’t think it would be prudent or honest to stand up and say “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.” And if that is so, you may need to delay (not abandon) becoming Catholic.
It isn’t wrong to want to do better by women than what abortion has to offer. I think it’s a narrow vision of pro life people if you think those who are pro life are anti-women or anti-help-for-women.
It isn’t wrong to love your friends and accept them even if they live a lifestyle in opposition to the Church. It is wrong to promote and endorse that lifestyle.
I suggest you spend time talking to your local Catholic priest, learning what the Church teaches and why, and prayerfully discerning whether you can assent to the teachings.
I don’t think it is so much a question of “can” you become Catholic, because no one is going to stop you. I think it’s a matter of discerning whether you are spiritually ready to become Catholic.
As for feminism, and I am a woman FYI, I take the good and leave the bad. I take equal opportunity and leave free love. Like every human movement, it gets co-opted by bad elements. Jesus talked about equality, about not lording it over others. There isn’t anything wrong with fighting for the rights of women, minorities, and those who are vulnerable in society (currently, immigrants and babies).
The Church is universal, not American and certainly not Republican (or Democrat). But from your post it sounds like you lean more towards being in favor of social programs and spending— and that is FINE. It is just as Catholic as any other position, and in some cases more Catholic as it pertains to social doctrines that the Church teaches.
If you are willing to assent to the teachings of the church even though you don’t fully understand or agree with them, and not promote ideas contrary to Catholic teaching, I think you would be able to enter the church.
If you can’t assent, I don’t think it would be prudent or honest to stand up and say “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.” And if that is so, you may need to delay (not abandon) becoming Catholic.
It isn’t wrong to want to do better by women than what abortion has to offer. I think it’s a narrow vision of pro life people if you think those who are pro life are anti-women or anti-help-for-women.
It isn’t wrong to love your friends and accept them even if they live a lifestyle in opposition to the Church. It is wrong to promote and endorse that lifestyle.
I suggest you spend time talking to your local Catholic priest, learning what the Church teaches and why, and prayerfully discerning whether you can assent to the teachings.
I don’t think it is so much a question of “can” you become Catholic, because no one is going to stop you. I think it’s a matter of discerning whether you are spiritually ready to become Catholic.
As for feminism, and I am a woman FYI, I take the good and leave the bad. I take equal opportunity and leave free love. Like every human movement, it gets co-opted by bad elements. Jesus talked about equality, about not lording it over others. There isn’t anything wrong with fighting for the rights of women, minorities, and those who are vulnerable in society (currently, immigrants and babies).
The Church is universal, not American and certainly not Republican (or Democrat). But from your post it sounds like you lean more towards being in favor of social programs and spending— and that is FINE. It is just as Catholic as any other position, and in some cases more Catholic as it pertains to social doctrines that the Church teaches.
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niceatheist
Guest
And yet it’s the only gauge there is. The example of slavery is a good one. So pervasive was it that even the colonies where slavery didn’t exist or was at least disfavored, ultimately were willing to make concessions, RIGHT IN THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF, to assure the formation of the United States. Clearly even for those that rejected slavery, it wasn’t so monumental an issue that they weren’t willing to compromise for what they perceived as the greater good.
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And believe me, the Church itself took some pretty awkward stances that it has had to beckpedal on. Much of the 19th century saw Rome make a number of pretty anti-liberal and anti-democratic stances, which in the 20th century, as liberal democracies began to finally take hold after two world wars, turned out to actually not be the hellfire and damnation dens of inequity conservatives in the Church thought they’d be.
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And believe me, the Church itself took some pretty awkward stances that it has had to beckpedal on. Much of the 19th century saw Rome make a number of pretty anti-liberal and anti-democratic stances, which in the 20th century, as liberal democracies began to finally take hold after two world wars, turned out to actually not be the hellfire and damnation dens of inequity conservatives in the Church thought they’d be.
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niceatheist
Guest
And that is between every Catholic and God, correct?niceatheist:
Of course a Catholic is free to vote for a pro-abortion candidate or a pro-life candidate.
What the Catholics is not free from is the consequences of that decision, given that one is a mortal sin and the other isn’t.
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