Immaculate Conception - Dec 8

[Br.Rich_SFO]

If the person was unable to go to Mass on Friday evening or earlier on Saturday due to work, but still wanted to fulfill his obligation by going to some Mass on Dec. 8.

But in that case they would not have any obligation to fulfill. But it would be a nice act of personal piety, I agree.

 

[CuriousInIL]

But in that case they would not have any obligation to fulfill. But it would be a nice act of personal piety, I agree.

Isn’t that really part of the question? If, in fact, it is permissible to fulfill the obligation for the Immaculate Conception by going to a Saturday evening (2nd Sunday of Advent) Mass, isn’t it part of the obligation to do so if that is the only open alternative on the 8th? In other words, doesn’t it go beyond an act of personal piety?

 

[Sure]

Isn’t that really part of the question? If, in fact, it is permissible to fulfill the obligation for the Immaculate Conception by going to a Saturday evening (2nd Sunday of Advent) Mass, isn’t it part of the obligation to do so if that is the only open alternative on the 8th? In other words, doesn’t it go beyond an act of personal piety?

No, the law states that one is obligated to attend a catholic rite Mass that day or a Mass in anticipation of that day. If one chooses to attend the Anticipatory Mass for the 2nd Sunday of Advent on the evening of December 8th, that is perfectly allowable and fulfills one’s Holy Day obligation. While it might be nice to hear the readings that correspond to the Feast, it is not required by law.

 

[JDHallKY]

I’ve been away for a few days and this thread has more than doubled in size!

Please allow me to clarify a few things:

1. I submitted comments which I believed to be correct, since I had gotten them from sources I trusted (and still do, generally), such as CA, and more specifically, Jimmy Akin.
2. Benedictgal called the USCCB, which someone was going to have to do to clear this up, and we should all respect what they said. Benedictgal is very active on these forums and her reputation is such that I think we can all trust she asked the question correctly and is relaying their answer accurately (Earlier, I stated differently, but I regret that now).
3. I agree completely with Benedictgal’s sentiments when she said this was a discussion among friends. Let’s keep this one thing in mind: This is an argument among people who really want to make sure they properly satisfy their obligations to attend Mass. That is a wonderful sentiment which we all share. Praise be to God!

And, if anyone is curious, I will be attending Mass on Saturday morning and on Sunday morning.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’ve been away for a few days and this thread has more than doubled in size!

Please allow me to clarify a few things:

1. I submitted comments which I believed to be correct, since I had gotten them from sources I trusted (and still do, generally), such as CA, and more specifically, Jimmy Akin.
2. Benedictgal called the USCCB, which someone was going to have to do to clear this up, and we should all respect what they said. Benedictgal is very active on these forums and her reputation is such that I think we can all trust she asked the question correctly and is relaying their answer accurately (Earlier, I stated differently, but I regret that now).
3. I agree completely with Benedictgal’s sentiments when she said this was a discussion among friends. Let’s keep this one thing in mind: This is an argument among people who really want to make sure they properly satisfy their obligations to attend Mass. That is a wonderful sentiment which we all share. Praise be to God!

And, if anyone is curious, I will be attending Mass on Saturday morning and on Sunday morning.

Something I’m seeing here that disturbes me is it seems that many parishes are not offering a Mass for the Immaculate Conception, or a few are just telling their members to come to the regular Saturday instead. Some are offering a Mass for the Immaculate Conception on Friday but too early in the day according to the rules for vigils of Holy Days. Other parishes are not offering a vigil, only one Mass on Saturday morning not only are we seeing the faithful not interested in attending a Holy Day of obligation, but the parishes are it seems are not interested in offering the Mass and vigil as required.

 

[Pug]

but the parishes are it seems are not interested in offering the Mass and vigil as required.

Maybe it has to do with how many masses a priest can say in one day. If our priest has a funeral mass on Sat, and the usual Sat Vigil and the usual morning daily, then that is three masses already on one day. Although, that doesn’t explain why we aren’t having one on Fri evening. Maybe it is something simple like to prevent exhaustion (of the priest), or else he has some prior commitment (our priest is not just the pastor of the parish; he has other duties in the diocese).

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Maybe it has to do with how many masses a priest can say in one day. If our priest has a funeral mass on Sat, and the usual Sat Vigil and the usual morning daily, then that is three masses already on one day. Although, that doesn’t explain why we aren’t having one on Fri evening. Maybe it is something simple like to prevent exhaustion (of the priest), or else he has some prior commitment (our priest is not just the pastor of the parish; he has other duties in the diocese).

Then this would be the proper opportunity to have a deacon or lay lead Communion service if a priest is not available to celebrate the Holy Day Mass. Give the faithful the opportunity to come together for the Holy Day. Have the LOH for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception and a Communion service on Friday evening if a priest is not available for Mass and then a Mass Saturday morning.

 

[conorsdad]

Does it fulfill the requirement for the Immaculate Conception holy day by going to a Friday Mass at 12 noon (the regular daily Mass time at a church near where I work), or must I go to a Mass at 4pm this afternoon or later?

 

[Digitonomy]

Does it fulfill the requirement for the Immaculate Conception holy day by going to a Friday Mass at 12 noon (the regular daily Mass time at a church near where I work), or must I go to a Mass at 4pm this afternoon or later?

It must be 4pm or later.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Does it fulfill the requirement for the Immaculate Conception holy day by going to a Friday Mass at 12 noon (the regular daily Mass time at a church near where I work), or must I go to a Mass at 4pm this afternoon or later?

4PM or later.

 

[twosweetgirls]

So this evening at our parish, there are two Vigil Masses for tomorrow’s Holy Day of Obligation. Then tomorrow, there’s a 9:00 a.m. Mass–in the bulletin it’s in bold print with bolded “Holy Day Mass” right next to it. The other Masses that evening are just in regular print.

My question: is tomorrow’s 9:00 a.m. Mass the one I should go to, to meet the Obligation? Or are the other ones (at 5:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m.) okay to satisfy the Obligation requirement?

Thanks in advance!

 

[James0235]

Any Masses this morning (Friday) were just daily Masses.

Any Mass this evening (after 4pm in the US) is for the Holy Day. And any Mass tomorrow morning (Saturday) is for the Holy Day.

Any Masses that begin tomorrow evening (after 4pm) will actually not be Masses for the Holy Day. They will be anticipated Masses for Sunday - the same as any Sat. evening Mass the rest of the year.

And of course any Masses on Sunday are Sunday Masses.

I know it can be confusing. Does that clear it up?

James

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

So this evening at our parish, there are two Vigil Masses for tomorrow’s Holy Day of Obligation. Then tomorrow, there’s a 9:00 a.m. Mass–in the bulletin it’s in bold print with bolded “Holy Day Mass” right next to it. The other Masses that evening are just in regular print.

My question: is tomorrow’s 9:00 a.m. Mass the one I should go to, to meet the Obligation? Or are the other ones (at 5:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m.) okay to satisfy the Obligation requirement?

Thanks in advance!

The Holy Day obligation would be the 9am Mass. The others later in the day would be for the Sunday obligation.

 

[twosweetgirls]

Thank you, James and Brother Rich–I get it now. God bless you both!

 

[KCT]

There really is alot of misinformation out there.

Our daughter is in a Theology class (for high schoolers) at a local seminary. Their end of the program retreat is Sat. Dec 8th from 9am to 2:30pm. They are not offering Mass for the students. When dd asked about it, she was told the feast transfers to Sunday.

I asked our pastor and he said that while some feast days do transfer to Sunday, Immaculate Conception does not.

So here’s a theology teacher giving wrong information! Frustrating.

We attended the Vigil Mass this evening since dd will be on retreat tomorrow. To me, a retreat w/ no Mass, is very odd, more so on a Holy day! --KCT

 

[ItalianBoy1993]

If you attend a Vigil Mass on Saturday for Adevnt II, it does NOT fulfill your obligation to the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary. You would have to attend Saturday Morning and either Saturday Evening or Sunday.

 

[benedictgal]

There really is alot of misinformation out there.

Our daughter is in a Theology class (for high schoolers) at a local seminary. Their end of the program retreat is Sat. Dec 8th from 9am to 2:30pm. They are not offering Mass for the students. When dd asked about it, she was told the feast transfers to Sunday.

I asked our pastor and he said that while some feast days do transfer to Sunday, Immaculate Conception does not.

So here’s a theology teacher giving wrong information! Frustrating.

We attended the Vigil Mass this evening since dd will be on retreat tomorrow. To me, a retreat w/ no Mass, is very odd, more so on a Holy day! --KCT

That is very sad, especially because in the United States, the Immaculate Conception is the Patroness of our country and the Solemnity is a Holy Day of Obligation, irregardless of where it falls. Now, when it does fall on a Sunday, the Solemnity is translated (transferred) to Monday, December 9th.

 

[thistle]

1. you must attend two masses
2. the Saturday evening vigil mass cannot be used to count for Immaculate Conception, even if you are going to another mass on Sunday to count for Sunday.

We’ve been debating this on a combined thread, which Servulus just posted.

Its already 10pm Saturday here in the Philippines. I attended the 6pm Mass. At the start of his homily the priest say he had good news for us. He said all those attending the Mass were getting 2 for 1 because it fulfilled both the Immaculate Conception Holy day obligation and the Sunday obligation.
In this thread and the other one the weight of opinion is that such a mass does not fulfill both yet around 1500 people including myself listened to the priest telling us in very clear words that it does fulfill both. If I go to the priest and tell him I think he is wrong, what documentation can I refer him to that states the Saturday evening Mass does not fulfill both. I find plenty of opinion in these threads but I could not find any reference to a document. Is there a Church document on this?

 

[LilyM]

Its already 10pm Saturday here in the Philippines. I attended the 6pm Mass. At the start of his homily the priest say he had good news for us. He said all those attending the Mass were getting 2 for 1 because it fulfilled both the Immaculate Conception Holy day obligation and the Sunday obligation.
In this thread and the other one the weight of opinion is that such a mass does not fulfill both yet around 1500 people including myself listened to the priest telling us in very clear words that it does fulfill both. If I go to the priest and tell him I think he is wrong, what documentation can I refer him to that states the Saturday evening Mass does not fulfill both. I find plenty of opinion in these threads but I could not find any reference to a document. Is there a Church document on this?

As far as I know the Philippines isn’t under the guidance of the US Bishops Conference. HDOs and their observance are a disciplinary matter which each country’s Catholic bishops decide for themselves.

 

[Digitonomy]

As far as I know the Philippines isn’t under the guidance of the US Bishops Conference. HDOs and their observance are a disciplinary matter which each country’s Catholic bishops decide for themselves.

The selection of which Holy Days are to be observed, as well as whether they may be transferred to the nearest Sunday, are matters decided by the national bishop’s conferences which must then be confirmed by the Vatican. However, the manner in which one may fulfill his obligation is governed by canon law. A literal reading of Canon 1248 supports thistle’s priest, but here is an explanation as to why that canon must be interpreted in light of Canon 19.

Instead, one’s attendance at a 6pm mass can count for either the Immaculate Conception or Sunday, but not both. The only sense in which the word “both” applies is that the same mass will fulfill both obligations for various parishioners - for some it will fulfill their IC obligation, while for others it will count toward their Sunday obligation.