Immigration reform becomes a Catholic ‘pro-life’ cause

[SuperLuigi]

I know of no way to increase border security, enforcement, incarceration and deportation for free.

Not “for free” but not ALL that 2+ trillion dollars getting spent on what it’s spent on now.

There’s room for improvement with what we have.

 

[AClaire11]

Good post. Furthermore, it’s not proven that there were Italians who came to this country without papers, that may well be a fable. Ellis Island had their technology back then and it may not have been as good as now. That said, I’m sure a country like Italy had baptism records at the least.

They definitely did. My great-grandfather immigrated by himself from Naples in 1904 and I have access to his Italian baptismal certificate. It’s frankly insulting to have my ancestors, who were poor and sacrificed everything, but still managed to immigrate legally, compared to people who do not respect our country’s laws.

One thing we need to consider is altering our citizenship requirements re: being born in America. Almost no other developed country has this law. It served its purpose when we were making sure the descendants of slaves would be considered citizens, but now people come here to give birth so that their family can immigrate more easily. Being born in a stable doesn’t make you a horse, and being born on the right side of the border shouldn’t make you an American.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Immigration is easily the hardest thing for me in terms of being a “good” Catholic. I hear the bishops, the Pope even, go on and on, and I just can’t stop worrying about the effect of immigration on our middle class. It’s the coat off your back thing…just hate it. But at least I feel guilty about it. Guess that’s a start, huh? I come from immigrants too.

 

[ruly]

“regardless of the amount”??? It cannot be regardless of the amount. If 100% of immigrants were committing crimes, it would only make sense to prohibit them from coming into the country. If .0001% of immigrants commit crimes, crime would not be a consideration in determining the issue.

By your logic, ie “regardless of the amount”, one could use the same argument to say stop procreating totally, since people commit all crimes, if we don’t have anymore people the crime rate will go down. Tell it to the victims of current crimes that it was ok for folks to have babies the last 30-40 years.

Emotions are getting the best of you instead of dealing with this post rationally. One single heinous felony committed by illegals in our country could be stopped if we seriously make the attempt to close our border. Illegals do engage in various crimes to include rapes and murders and which pro-immigration reform advocates seemed to ignore just like the word “illegal”.

Your quote:
The amounts being spread as propaganda by anti-immigration folks are not backed up by any real statistics, and cannot be accurate, IMO.

It might be propaganda to you but earlier posts have documented the fact on the amount of crime committed by this individuals:
foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/31/enforcement-crisis-documents-show-68000-criminal-aliens-released-last-year/.

A major solution to all these additional crimes and social issues which this country has absorbed for so long is to close the borders.

 

[ruly]

I brought up Italian immigrants coming here without papers as a counterpoint to another poster trying to use them as a comparison point with illegal immigrants today. As I pointed out in my comments earlier in this thread if the Italian immigrants were subject to today’s immigration laws they would be denied immigration/deemed to be illegal immigrants.

As to your claim that they all got off the boat, kissed the ground, and promptly Americanized themselves, that’s false. There is a long history of immigrant populations taking several generations to become fully integrated into American society and Americanized.

“Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country’s flag…” Yeah, that’s why St. Patrick’s Day, complete with Irish flags flickr.com/photos/jennmau/3359146394/ flickr.com/photos/pat_ossa/4428921172/, is such a non-event in historic Irish settled cities like Boston or New York.

You seemed to address immigrants coming via Ellis island either legal and in your view illegal by today’s standards, and it is totally unfair. The point being made was the attitude of this immigrants was different:
Quote: They sought to learn English as their primary language. They waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.

Quote "some of these immigrants got down on their knees and kissed the soil of their new home.
It’s very unfortunate that you seem to misquote my post for obvious reasons. Not all kissed the ground but their attitude was entirely different compared to our current illegal immigrants. Do you see that attitude in today’s issue with illegal immigrants?

Thank you for bringing up the St. Patrick’s parade. What I see is the red, white and blue being flown without exception. Thank you for posting photos of everything being written in English. And yes there are no members of Irish Americans wanting to overthrow our country like members of the RAZA. Even though these are different attitudes doesn’t it strike you that we’re living in the greatest, fairest, country in the world. In God We Trust.

 

[pnewton]

Emotions are getting the best of you instead of dealing with this post rationally. One single heinous felony committed by illegals in our country could be stopped if we seriously make the attempt to close our border

You do not know this. Every crime that has been committed might well have still been committed elsewhere, or perhaps by someone else. If we are to use reason, then let us also recognize that the same argument could be used for kicking all blacks our of the country, or incarcerating all Japanese-Americans during WWII. Stereotypes, scare tactics and bigotry are not rational.

Yes, I will always use the word “bigotry” as long as the argument exists that because of the actions of one (or a few) all of a populous should be treated in a certain way.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A lot of people favor “reform”, but there are lots of notions as to what that would be.

It gets even more confusing when one considers an administration that can’t be trusted to enforce whatever “reform” got passed. Why, one might ask, should one “reform” that which is going to be ignored anyway?

And for whom should it be “reformed”? I think most Americans are reasonably accepting of Hispanics who, after all, are not all that different, culturally. But will Americans really be okay with liberal policies toward the Mohammed Attas and Tsnarnaev brothers if they became over 10% of the population as in France. Remember, polling shows that 10% of Muslims believe in jihad against the “infidel”. Are Americans really ready for 3 million jihadis? That sounds to me like a formula that would ultimately result in no immigration allowed at all.

Do we favor the well-educated or the uneducated, and why? Do we favor those who truly intend to become Americans or give equal status to those who simply want to come here due to exchange rate differentials then return home to be ahead of the “Joneses” in their own country? And how do we know the difference?

This all seems a lot more difficult than people make it out to be.

Contrary to what many think, a lot of immigration in the 19th Century was essentially unregulated. If you got here, you could stay here. But that was done consciously because the country had a lot of open land that needed population. Well, and the Union needed soldiers for the Civil War, too.

I have sometimes wondered if it would be possible to de-politicize it, and put it in the hands of an independent body similar to the Federal Reserve. The economy needs more liquidity, the Fed provides it. The economy is overheating, the Fed drains it. Could additional labor be similar? It seems almost unimaginable that politicians would ever take a truly pragmatic approach to the question. It seems all of it is rhetoric and romanticism the way most express it.

 

[ruly]

You do not know this. Every crime that has been committed might well have still been committed elsewhere, or perhaps by someone else. If we are to use reason, then let us also recognize that the same argument could be used for kicking all blacks our of the country, or incarcerating all Japanese-Americans during WWII. Stereotypes, scare tactics and bigotry are not rational.

Yes, I will always use the word “bigotry” as long as the argument exists that because of the actions of one (or a few) all of a populous should be treated in a certain way.

I find your post so convoluted I will abstain from making a reply.

 

[molnar1953]

Has Cardinal O’Malley read the Senate’s Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act? It is a Amnesty rouse with one primary objective: Immediate Amnesty. It is a slick maneuver by Democrats to take advantage of the Socialist bent of all people cramming to enter the US from Central and South America. Now the word from the president is encouraging young children from Central America to quickly enter the US to be postured for citizenship on the grounds they are children of mostly illegal parents already in the US. There is no doubt they were given the names of men and women as their parents. What are they carrying to prove they have parents (mothers and fathers) in the US. Now the president is attempting to provide lawyers to help these children in their plight (?) to join parents(?) as citizens. Supposedly they are coming from San Salvador and other countries where they contend they face destitution bought on by terrible governments and malicious elements. If that is a fact then these children can ask to enter the US seeking ASYLUM. But they have no right to enter the US before they are granted ASYLUM. Instead they have ruthless bounty persons being paid to transport them from their native country through Mexico where they are granted permission by Mexico to run across the border in mass. A ten fold increase in their number compared to a few years ago.
Cardinal O’Malley says the US needs immigrants to do jobs Americans will not do. Well Cardinal O’Malley what are the number of immigrants needed for just the jobs Americans will not do and where did you get the idea products are rotting because they are not picked? Just where are the shortages of farmers’ products affecting the economy?
We have a million immigrants granted permission to legally enter this country every year and we have untold numbers of legally granted Asylum seekers entering every year. There is a Refugee Establishment Program with CONTRACTORS hired by the US to get these Asylum seekers employed. And yes there is no doubt the Catholic Church is a CONTRACTOR supported by the US with funds explicitly used for Refugee Resettlement. Am I right? And by goodness these asylum seekers have voting rights.
I remind Cardinal O’Malley there are Catholic teachings which say it is mortal sin to enter a country illegally. I say it is sin involving the Tenth Commandment: Thou shall not COVET…anything belonging to thy neighbor such as neighbors’ jobs. And there are Catholic teachings also saying anyone helping a sinner to enter a country illegally is also a sinner by the same Commandment. And I also remind Cardinal O’Malley that the true mission of Catholic Clergy is to SAVE SOULS. Does the Catholic Church of the countries from whence comes the hoards of children say anything about the sin they will commit by entering the US illegally.
I believe GOD will not forgive illegality regarding the crime of uninvited entry to neighbors’ lands. In this regard PLEASE TELL ME the Catholic Church has a right to claim cities as sanctuaries for illegals. I lived in New Mexico for 17 years where many cities were sanctuaries for illegal immigrants. Where the Archbishop buried a former Archbishop striped of priesthood and instructed to leave New Mexico forever for breaking his VOW OF CHASTITY. But he returned to NM to die and then be buried in his tomb in the Santa Fe Cathedral all as show of something (?) for Hispanics. And then there was deliberate disregard by NM Clergy to tell the voting citizens of NM regarding the president’s demeaning of the Catholic Church’s most revered teachings and beliefs reaffirmed in the Democrat Platform of 2012. So, 77% of NM Hispanics and 53% of Catholics voted a man to the highest office in this country even though he desired the removal of any reference to GOD in the platform. I believe the warning of the Bishop of Springfield, Illinois regarding the destiny of one’s immortal soul after death, namely, Hell for voting for the Catholic OPPRESSOR. The mission of the Catholic Clergy is to please save their souls through reconciliation and the renewal of one’s Baptismal Vows.
The Pope went to an Island where the Christians from Libya had to go to remain alive. They are seeking ASYLUM. They are not illegal travelers. They have the right reason to leave a Country where the government practices Shari Law. These immigrants are not equivalent to the illegal immigrants crossing our borders. Do you believe you have the right to link the Pope’s concern to the travesty at our Southern Border? I don’t.
The vice president just claimed the country needs a continuing invasion of the hoards of illegal immigrants now going on. Is that what he wants because the country murders almost a million human beings every year along with the 56 million already murdered since the dreadful year of 1973 when the real WAR BY WOMEN got into full swing. Why just why don’t the unwanted deserve a chance at life.
Cardinal O’Malley I ask you considering the fact the VP is an unpunished Catholic which of the two evils or both are going to continue unabated by political schemers for Illegal Immigrants and Abortions? There are Immigration Laws and Catholic Teachings and Doctrines neither of which is having any effect because the Catholic Clergy, for one, does not understand the true mission of the Catholic Church. The Church is now a money grubbing, political schemer, so now Cardinal O’Malley what do you say for the yourself and all the Cardinals?
I have this plea for you. Please pray for my wife. She is a far left Democrat. She believes she is a Catholic who says unwanted are better off dead than alive. She agrees with same sex marriage. She is sympathizer with homosexuals. She also says at her time she will ask God for forgiveness of any sins. And he will grant her immortal soul Heaven? Do you believe people like her really can fool their way into heaven?

 

[anthony022071]

The only political incentive at play here is from the far right wing of this country who would rather see people live in the shadows and families torn apart instead of legalizing them where they could possibly vote. Instead of trying to court their vote they would rather deport or keep them oppressed. The day THAT stops and right wingers put something other than their own election hopes as the top priority then maybe something can get done.

Illegal immigrants are not living in the shadows. They are out in public and working illegally.

 

[ishii]

Has Cardinal O’Malley read the Senate’s Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act? It is a Amnesty rouse with one primary objective: Immediate Amnesty. It is a slick maneuver by Democrats to take advantage of the Socialist bent of all people cramming to enter the US from Central and South America. Now the word from the president is encouraging young children from Central America to quickly enter the US to be postured for citizenship on the grounds they are children of mostly illegal parents already in the US.

I think lost among the Catholic clergy is the political motivations behind amnesty: it is not to be humane, to “get people out of the shadows” etc. It is nothing more than a vote grab. Operation keep Democrats in power for the next 30 years. I wonder if the clergy/bishops who have been calling for amnesty understand that? Maybe they think it is a good thing.

Ishii

 

[anthony022071]

I think lost among the Catholic clergy is the political motivations behind amnesty: it is not to be humane, to “get people out of the shadows” etc. It is nothing more than a vote grab. Operation keep Democrats in power for the next 30 years. I wonder if the clergy/bishops who have been calling for amnesty understand that? Maybe they think it is a good thing.

Ishii

The bishops who advocate for immigration reform and the people on their social justice committees deny that they are advocating for amnesty. They call it a pathway to citizenship. But they cannot give a good reason why people who have trespassed into the country should be granted citizenship. It is not social justice for the government to reward people for breaking just laws. And they should know better than to say that the illegal immigrants are living in the shadows. Most of the illegals are out in the open in public,and working illegally.

 

[Erich]

Now the word from the president is encouraging young children from Central America to quickly enter the US to be postured for citizenship on the grounds they are children of mostly illegal parents already in the US.

With 1,000 illegal immigrants crossing the United States’ southern border into Texas every day, you have to wonder how that many people can move from Central America across Mexico into the United States without there being a fairly coordinated effort. We either have an incredibly inept administration, or they’re in on it somehow (or both).

 

[marbleartist]

With 1,000 illegal immigrants crossing the United States’ southern border into Texas every day, you have to wonder how that many people can move from Central America across Mexico into the United States without there being a fairly coordinated effort. We either have an incredibly inept administration, or they’re in on it somehow (or both).

That’s what Gov. Perry said on TV! Texas has now approved spending $1.3 a WEEK to place more border control agents at the border. Gov. Perry asked the U.S. government for help two years ago with no response. So, now, Texas is providing their own extensive border security.

 

[Maria65]

Definitely it has a corrupt and dysfunctional government. But is the answer to that to drain off the workers? Perhaps the populace of Mexico and other places needs to solve their own governmental problems, something their coming here will not do.

Immigration policy is a very tough national problem, but romanticism won’t solve it.

THANK YOU! I can never understand why some people try to make anyone not in favor of unrestricted immigration feel like a meanie. Maybe the real problem that needs to be addressed is what is going on in the countries that these people are fleeing from? Maybe that needs to be where the work needs to be done, not how to accommodate all these immigrants into the U.S. and Europe.

 

[Tigg]

THANK YOU! I can never understand why some people try to make anyone not in favor of unrestricted immigration feel like a meanie. Maybe the real problem that needs to be addressed is what is going on in the countries that these people are fleeing from? Maybe that needs to be where the work needs to be done, not how to accommodate all these immigrants into the U.S. and Europe.

One has to wonder where the bishops stand in these *other *countries. Are they speaking against the corruption and oppression of these governments? Are they advising their own people and giving them the spiritual ministrations they need? Have they abrogated their own role to the USCCB which has always been linked to immigration reform? Pure speculation on my part, but I’ve always sensed something bigger looming in the background with all of this just because of the politics.