Immigration reform becomes a Catholic ‘pro-life’ cause

[pnewton]

The Rememberance Project is a Memorial to the Victims of Illegal Aliens you might wish to know about.

I do believe this sort of project is bigoted. If I were to start a memorial for all those who are murdered by blacks in America, or all the Aryans who were bankrupted by Jews, it would be the same.

Murder is the tragedy, not the race, status or category of the person who committed the crime.

 

[Path_Finder]

American families are ignored as their loved ones continue to be slain by illegal aliens. Illegal immigration is not a ‘Hispanic’ issue, nor is it ‘racist.’ This is a national security issue. The U.S. government continues to ignore the outcries of Americans. Each time an American is killed by an illegal alien, that shining city on The Hill becomes dimmer with disgust and distrust. Hispanics are tired of being used as an excuse. It is offensive, to say the least. ~ Maria Espinoza

Jesse Benavides was gunned down at a family birthday party in Dallas by a man who never should have been on U.S. streets. “It shouldn’t have happened…Jesse isn’t the only person whose been killed unnecessarily by criminals like Gaona, who shouldn’t be here to begin with," said the victim’s brother, Juan Benavides.

theremembranceproject.org/the-remembrance-project-blog/benavides

I thoroughly believe Espinoza is correct here, it is not a Hispanic or racist issue, it is a national security issue.

dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20111104-rape-suspect-flagged-as-illegal-immigrant-was-released-weeks-before-dallas-murder.ece

 

[Ender]

To quote Yoda, “My own counsel will I keep.” I have been dealing with the deportation of illegal immigrants for two years. I too am no expert, but I also know that neither ICE or the former INS ever called or treated the deportation process criminally.

The thing about the internet is that the information is available if you look for it. You can find the relevant US laws on line and read exactly what they say. 8 US 1325 is the relevant law; you cited it yourself and that’s all I did. It allows for a six month prison sentence which means that the violation of that law is a criminal offense. The fact that prison sentences are rarely if ever handed out means nothing in determining whether the violation of that law is civil or criminal. The truth of the matter is that illegal entry into this country is a crime.

codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325

Ender

 

[tafan]

The Rememberance Project is a Memorial to the Victims of Illegal Aliens you might wish to know about.

theremembranceproject.org/

Are you saying the source data is on that website?

 

[pnewton]

It allows for a six month prison sentence which means that the violation of that law is a criminal offense.

The first part is true, the second is a conclusion not found in the law itself. In light of the statement about civil penalties that follow, I do not believe your conclusion.

A person can also be imprisoned for civil contempt, for example. The six months period allows time to hold for deportation procedures.

 

[Ender]

The first part is true, the second is a conclusion not found in the law itself. In light of the statement about civil penalties that follow, I do not believe your conclusion.

You are letting your desire not to believe illegal entry is a crime color your evaluation of the evidence.
AMMENDMENT
1990 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 101-649, Sec. 543(b)(2), inserted “or attempts to enter” after “(1) enters” and “attempts to enter or” after “or (3)”, and substituted “shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined not more than $2,000 (or, if greater, the amount provided under title 18) or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years” for "shall, for the first commission of any such offenses, be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof be punished by imprisonment for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than $500, or by both, and for a subsequent commission of any such offenses shall be guilty of a felony
trac.syr.edu/laws/08/08USC01325.html

The thing to consider here is not simply that you were wrong but that you have been deceived. Others who surely know better have mislead you into believing something that isn’t true. What they’ve been saying is that being in this country isn’t a crime but saying it in such a context that what people hear is that *entering *this country isn’t a crime. That’s what happened to you.

Ender

 

[pnewton]

You are letting your desire not to believe illegal entry is a crime color your evaluation of the evidence.

That is a crock. This is the* first* time yet you have linked any document supporting that section (a) is a misdemeanor. I have evaluated the evidence only with the proper weight and opinion with the proper weight.

 

[Ender]

I tried to delete the previous post but didn’t make it in time. A closer reading of the text doesn’t support my claim (it doesn’t refute it, it just doesn’t confirm it). So I went looking for something better and found this from a case filed in California in 2006. From the actual court document:
Charge 1: NEW LAW VIOLATION
A. Evidence:
(1) Criminal Complaint dated March 30, 2006, filed in the District of Arizona, alleging a felony violation of 8 USC 1326 - Deported Alien Found in the United States, and a misdemeanor violation of 8 USC 1325 - Illegal Entry
gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-caed-2_02-cr-00300/pdf/USCOURTS-caed-2_02-cr-00300-0.pdf

This is a real case where someone is charged with having a committed a misdemeanor violation of 8 USC 1325.

There is also this from a document created by the Connecticut state government:
***Criminal **violations of the INA include such offenses as:

1. bringing in and harboring of certain undocumented aliens; (8 USC § 1324),
2. illegal entry of aliens; (8 USC § 1325(a)),…

People v. Barajas. Likewise, in People v. Barajas, the California Court of Appeal upheld the authority of California local police officers to make arrests for violations of two provisions of the INA, 8 USC § 1325 (the illegal entry misdemeanor)*
cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-R-0457.htm

Ender

 

[Ender]

That is a crock. This is the* first* time yet you have linked any document supporting that section (a) is a misdemeanor. I have evaluated the evidence only with the proper weight and opinion with the proper weight.

You cited the penalties that are defined for a violation of 8 USC 1325(b) as an explanation for why a violation of 8 USC 1325(a) was not a misdemeanor, and simply ignored the penalties specified in section (a).

Ender

 

[Path_Finder]

wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_entering_the_US_illegally_a_felony?#slide=2

Here we even see it called a Felony. I have heard this before as well. It’s a legal question.

Some say it is a felony under Title 18 USC. It certainly is a crime.

 

[SuperLuigi]

So, random person on the internet knows more about what the Church actually teaches than a Bishop. Um, ok.

Bishops and clergy are not above correction.

 

[pnewton]

Bishops and clergy are not above correction.

Yes and those that have authority to so can and will correct them when needed. The thing is, there seems to be a strong consensus on this topic, perhaps even unanimous. Who is to correct something if no one seems them as wrong?

 

[ruly]

Let’s see anyone who brings out a “reasonable” opposing view makes that individual a “bigot”?:
Pnewton Post 54
In the end though, we should not treat people, white or black, Jew or Muslim, based on what “most” are like. That is the definition of bigotry.
Pneewton #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Path_Finder
The Rememberance Project is a Memorial to the Victims of Illegal Aliens you might wish to know about.
I do believe this sort of project is bigoted. If I were to start a memorial for all those who are murdered by blacks in America, or all the Aryans who were bankrupted by Jews, it would be the same.

Ender
If it is wrong to demonize people for their race, creed, or religion, it is equally wrong to demonize them simply for adhering to different solutions.
I would add to that if indeed “blacks” are in the majority of people who commit most of the crime, including people of their own race, pointing that out would not make me a “bigot” if such were the statistics.

As previously stated by opposing views not all illegal immigrants enter the country as good honest individuals. Again as has been previously stated and demonstrated these illegal immigrants also have their share of crime in our country, regardless of the amount, which would not have happened if our borders would have been secured. And the crime being perpetrated by this few or more individuals includes murder, rape, child abuse, drug crimes, etc. and not just the so call “illegal” entry define by Pnewton as just a “civil” problem. Try telling that to the victims of these heinous crimes.

 

[ruly]

Allow me to share with you another thought. Earlier another point was made diminishing the immigrants coming via Ellis Island because they had documents or didn’t. One thing for sure upon arrival some of these immigrants got down on their knees and kissed the soil of their new home. They sought to learn English as their primary language. They waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.

Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship. None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France, no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country’s flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.

 

[ruly]

And here we are our current status with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I’m sorry, that’s not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900’s deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.

I will admit I’m not the author of this last two posts. It’s just a letter I got from the internet. But wished I had.

 

[tafan]

…
As previously stated by opposing views not all illegal immigrants enter the country as good honest individuals. Again as has been previously stated and demonstrated these illegal immigrants also have their share of crime in our country, regardless of the amount, which would not have happened if our borders would have been secured. And the crime being perpetrated by this few or more individuals includes murder, rape, child abuse, drug crimes, etc. and not just the so call “illegal” entry define by Pnewton as just a “civil” problem. Try telling that to the victims of these heinous crimes.

“regardless of the amount”??? It cannot be regardless of the amount. If 100% of immigrants were committing crimes, it would only make sense to prohibit them from coming into the country. If .0001% of immigrants commit crimes, crime would not be a consideration in determining the issue.

The amounts being spread as propaganda by anti-immigration folks are not backed up by any real statistics, and cannot be accurate, IMO.

By your logic, ie “regardless of the amount”, one could use the same argument to say stop procreating totally, since people commit all crimes, if we don’t have anymore people the crime rate will go down. Tell it to the victims of current crimes that it was ok for folks to have babies the last 30-40 years.

 

[tafan]

Can someone tell me succinctly: why immigration has become the be-all, end-all issue for conservatives the past decade? I find the adoption of immigration issue as the main issue for conservatives as tragic and very un-conservative.

 

[Path_Finder]

Can someone tell me succinctly: why immigration has become the be-all, end-all issue for conservatives the past decade? I find the adoption of immigration issue as the main issue for conservatives as tragic and very un-conservative.

Here I find 74% of all blacks are for “stricter border control to try to reduce illegal immigration.” Perhaps you can tell us why blacks are for stricter border control? And Hispanics are 60% in support of “stricter border control to try to reduce illegal immigration”. Then we can go from there. Perhaps you can tell us why Hispanics are for such strict border control as well.

fairus.org/facts/illegal-immigration-and-amnesty-polls

gallup.com/poll/4852/Americans-Clearly-Oppose-Amnesty-Illegal-Mexican-Immigrants.aspx

 

[tafan]

Here I find 74% of all blacks are for “stricter border control to try to reduce illegal immigration.” Perhaps you can tell us why blacks are for stricter border control? And Hispanics are 60% in support of “stricter border control to try to reduce illegal immigration”. Then we can go from there. Perhaps you can tell us why Hispanics are for such strict border control as well.

fairus.org/facts/illegal-immigration-and-amnesty-polls

gallup.com/poll/4852/Americans-Clearly-Oppose-Amnesty-Illegal-Mexican-Immigrants.aspx

You are dodging the question. Heck, I can understand to some extent why blacks and Hispanics are for stricter border patrol. They are generally of lower income and more likely to compete with that immigrant labor.

Although, I will point out there is a difference between being for stricter control of our borders (actually we have made great strides with that already) and being so adamant against other areas of immigration reform. It will be a lot easier to protect our borders if we allow much broader means of legal immigration for those who simply want a better life.

 

[Path_Finder]

You are dodging the question. Heck, I can understand to some extent why blacks and Hispanics are for stricter border patrol. They are generally of lower income and more likely to compete with that immigrant labor.

Although, I will point out there is a difference between being for stricter control of our borders (actually we have made great strides with that already) and being so adamant against other areas of immigration reform. It will be a lot easier to protect our borders if we allow much broader means of legal immigration for those who simply want a better life.

So much of what you have said have basically been your own projections. No one is dodging a question.

As for the reasons you list saying Hispanics and Blacks would feel the same way, ditto for Americans and Conservatives.