Immodesty and the lack of respect for women - two sides of the same coin.

[Serap]

I’ve been to Masses where people stand outside and make sure all the women walking in are dressed appropriately. If a girl tried to get in wearing a skirt above her knees, or a shirt that was too revealing, she’d be given a long sweater or skirt to put on from the dusty room in the back. I think this should be done at every Mass. You’d think good Catholic girls would know how to dress. But they don’t so let’s give them a multi-colored dream coat to put on–that 'el show 'em!
My interpretation of too much cleavage is if the word “cleavage” has to be said.

** Note: added definition of “cleavage” **

Cleavage is the space between a woman’s breasts lying over the sternum revealed by a garment with a low neckline. It is associated with low-cut women’s clothing, such as evening gowns, swimwear, casual tops and other garments, designed to emphasize the display of breasts.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleavage_%28breasts%29

All my skirts are above the knee and no, I don’t wear mini skirts either.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

All my skirts are above the knee and no, I don’t wear mini skirts either.

I don’t make the rules.

 

[Serap]

I don’t make the rules.

Well I wore a skirt above the knee with a fitted v-neck white t-shirt to the Vatican 4 years ago and no one said anything to me

 

[Shin]

I always see these as required reading for modesty – there’s stuff from Cardinal Siri, St. Padre Pio, etc.

Colleen Hammond’s guidelines.

Little Flowers’ guidelines.

St. Anthony Mary Claret, a very gem among modesty and humility and soft spokeness makes clear the basic morality behind it all.

:’. . . Now, observe, my daughter, the contrast between the luxurious dress of many women, and the raiment and adornments of Jesus. . . Tell me: what relation do their fine shoes bear to the spikes in Jesus’ Feet? The rings on their hands to the nails which perforated His? The fashionable coiffure to the Crown of Thorns? The painted face to That covered with bruises? Shoulders exposed by the low-cut gown to His, all striped with Blood? Ah, but there is a marked likeness between these worldly women and the Jews who, incited by the Devil, scourged Our Lord! At the hour of such a woman’s death, I think Jesus will be heard saying: "Cujus est imago haec et circumscripto. . . of whom is she the image?" And the reply will be: “Demonii. . . of the Devil!” Then He will say: “Let her who has followed the Devil’s fashions be handed over to him; and to God, those who have imitated the modesty of Jesus and Mary.”’

St. Anthony Mary Claret

‘But let our speech and petition when we pray be under discipline, observing quietness and modesty. Let us consider that we are standing in God’s sight. We must please the divine eyes both with the habit of body and with the measure of voice.’

St. Cyprian of Carthage

St. Francis de Sales, the ‘Gentle Doctor’ also does so… Frankly, much of what should not so much as be named has been named on this thread.

‘Human bodies are like glasses, which cannot come into collision without risk of breaking; or to fruits, which, however fresh and ripe, are damaged by pressure. Never permit any one to take any manner of foolish liberty with you, since, although there may be no evil intention, the perfectness of purity is injured thereby. Purity has its source in the heart, but it is in the body that its material results take shape, and therefore it may be forfeited both by the exterior senses and by the thoughts and desires of the heart. All lack of modesty in seeing, hearing, speaking, smelling, or touching, is impurity, especially when the heart takes pleasure therein. St. Paul says without any hesitation that impurity and uncleanness, or foolish and unseemly talking, are not to be “so much as named” among Christians. Remember that there are things which blemish perfect purity, without being in themselves downright acts of impurity. Anything which tends to lessen its intense sensitiveness, or to cast the slightest shadow over it, is of this nature; and all evil thoughts or foolish acts of levity or heedlessness are as steps towards the most direct breaches of the law of chastity. Avoid the society of persons who are wanting in purity, especially if they are bold, as indeed impure people always are.’

St. Francis de Sales

 

[Serap]

I always see these as required reading for modesty – there’s stuff from Cardinal Siri, St. Padre Pio, etc.

Colleen Hammond’s guidelines.

Little Flowers’ guidelines.

St. Anthony Mary Claret, a very gem among modesty and humility and soft spokeness makes clear the basic morality behind it all.

:’. . . Now, observe, my daughter, the contrast between the luxurious dress of many women, and the raiment and adornments of Jesus. . . Tell me: what relation do their fine shoes bear to the spikes in Jesus’ Feet? The rings on their hands to the nails which perforated His? The fashionable coiffure to the Crown of Thorns? The painted face to That covered with bruises? Shoulders exposed by the low-cut gown to His, all striped with Blood? Ah, but there is a marked likeness between these worldly women and the Jews who, incited by the Devil, scourged Our Lord! At the hour of such a woman’s death, I think Jesus will be heard saying: "Cujus est imago haec et circumscripto. . . of whom is she the image?" And the reply will be: “Demonii. . . of the Devil!” Then He will say: “Let her who has followed the Devil’s fashions be handed over to him; and to God, those who have imitated the modesty of Jesus and Mary.”’

St. Anthony Mary Claret

‘But let our speech and petition when we pray be under discipline, observing quietness and modesty. Let us consider that we are standing in God’s sight. We must please the divine eyes both with the habit of body and with the measure of voice.’

St. Cyprian of Carthage

St. Francis de Sales, the ‘Gentle Doctor’ also does so… Frankly, much of what should not so much as be named has been named on this thread.

‘Human bodies are like glasses, which cannot come into collision without risk of breaking; or to fruits, which, however fresh and ripe, are damaged by pressure. Never permit any one to take any manner of foolish liberty with you, since, although there may be no evil intention, the perfectness of purity is injured thereby. Purity has its source in the heart, but it is in the body that its material results take shape, and therefore it may be forfeited both by the exterior senses and by the thoughts and desires of the heart. All lack of modesty in seeing, hearing, speaking, smelling, or touching, is impurity, especially when the heart takes pleasure therein. St. Paul says without any hesitation that impurity and uncleanness, or foolish and unseemly talking, are not to be “so much as named” among Christians. Remember that there are things which blemish perfect purity, without being in themselves downright acts of impurity. Anything which tends to lessen its intense sensitiveness, or to cast the slightest shadow over it, is of this nature; and all evil thoughts or foolish acts of levity or heedlessness are as steps towards the most direct breaches of the law of chastity. Avoid the society of persons who are wanting in purity, especially if they are bold, as indeed impure people always are.’

St. Francis de Sales

Please find a saintly figure that has defined modest clothing in the last 20 years at least.

Modesty changes over time. Our Lady’s clothing would be very different today.

 

[C_S_P_B]

@Shin

You still seem to be projecting on others. I think you are quite sanctimonious.

You continue to attempt to shame other women that have views and dress in ways you do not approve of.

It is quite common for women to just ignore things and facts presented by men. I notice you have temporarily stopped projecting your beliefs about the way men think. But that is not sufficient. I also don’t take kindly to attacks on other women, when it is off the mark.

I challenge you to address my post and engage in debate with me. Are you up to it?

It would be fun!

 

[Shin]

Please find a saintly figure that has defined modest clothing in the last 20 years at least.

Modesty changes over time. Our Lady’s clothing would be very different today.

Modesty does not change over time. Modesty has absolute standards that never change. Just like other aspects of moral truth.

Some material for thought to show how modesty is part of the Faith:

“Fashions will much offend Our Lord. People who serve God should not follow fashions. The Church has no fashions. Our Lord is always the same.”

Bl. Jacinta of Fatima

I quote saints, it generally takes longer than 20 years to canonize. But the saints say the same thing from 100 A.D. to 1000 A.D. to today.

Modesty does not change.

They also say that few people go to Heaven. Repeating the scriptures repeated admonishment. That Christians must be different from people of the world.

‘But how can you know anything of the impression made on others? Who can assure you that others do not draw therefrom incentives to evil? You do not know the depths of human frailty. . . Oh, how truly was it said that if some Christian women could only suspect the temptations and falls they cause in others with modes of dress and familiarity in behavior, which they unthinkingly consider as of no importance, they would be shocked by the responsibility which is theirs.’

Pope Pius XII

‘The good of our soul is more important than that of our body; and we have to prefer the spiritual welfare of our neighbor to our bodily comforts. . . If a certain kind of dress constitutes a grave and proximate occasion of sin, and endangers the salvation of your soul and others, it is your duty to give it up.’

Pope Pius XII

‘What is it all for? If they only knew what eternity is.’

Bl. Jacinta Marto of Fatima, age 9, on seeing immodest and fashionably dressed women

‘Let parents keep their daughters away from public gymnastic games and contests; but if their daughters are compelled to attend such exhibitions, let them see that they are fully and modestly dressed. Let them never permit their daughters to appear in immodest dress.’

Decree of the Congregation of the Council (by the mandate of Pope Pius XI), 1930 A.D.

Signs on the doors of San Giovanni Rotondo:

“The Church is the house of God. It is forbidden for men to enter with bare arms or in shorts. It is forbidden for women to enter in trousers, without a veil on their head, in short clothing, low necklines, sleeveless or immodest dresses.”

“By Padre Pio’s explicit wish, women must enter the confessional wearing skirts AT LEAST 8 INCHES BELOW THE KNEE. It is forbidden to borrow longer dresses in church and to wear them to confession.”

‘A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.’

The Cardinal Vicar of Pius XI

One cannot sufficiently deplore the blindness of so many women of every age and condition; made foolish by desire to please, they do not see to what a degree the indecency of their clothing shocks every honest man, and offends God.

Most of them would formerly have blushed for those outfits as for a grave fault against Christian modesty; now it does not suffice for them to exhibit them on the public thoroughfares; they do not fear to cross the threshold of the churches, to assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and even to bear the seducing food of shameful passions to the Eucharistic Table where one receives the Heavenly Author of purity.

And we speak not of these exotic and barbarous dances recently imported into fashionable circles, one more shocking than the other; one cannot imagine anything more suitable for banishing all the remains of modesty.

Pope Benedict XV

‘We must practice modesty, not only in our looks, but also in our whole deportment, and particularly in our dress, our walk, our conversation, and all similar actions.’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church

'You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. . . When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion?

You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul.

And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.’

St. John Chrysostom, Father and Doctor of the Church

 

[Shin]

@Shin

You still seem to be projecting on others. I think you are quite sanctimonious.

You continue to attempt to shame other women that have views and dress in ways you do not approve of.

It is quite common for women to just ignore things and facts presented by men. I notice you have temporarily stopped projecting your beliefs about the way men think. But that is not sufficient. I also don’t take kindly to attacks on other women, when it is off the mark.

I challenge you to address my post and engage in debate with me. Are you up to it?

It would be fun!

I don’t do debates and apologetics anymore, in general. I gave that up years ago. Debates make people closed minded, at least one of the participants is usually trying to win points with over the top and often immoral attempts that are obviously not germane. There’s often a lot of self-righteous self defense involved rather than acknowledgement of being a sinner.

I am a Christian. I like conversations with people who are open to the truth, who are fellow seekers wishing to find the most good for themselves and are concerned for their souls. That’s my hope. That’s the spirit.

People who are closed are closed to grace. We should approach our salvation in ‘fear and trembling’ because ‘many are called, but few are chosen’, ‘many seek to enter but are unable’.

A lot of people are living in ways that are offensive to God, and because they are too proud and self defensive, both emotions very foreign to any good spiritual life, they will never get out of them. They are actually afraid to look back over their lives and find sinful habits they have to get rid of! When this is the way to salvation, and without which we can lose it through culpable negligence! It’s hard to imagine. I never understand it.

You can talk to me on this thread or anywhere however you like, but I have no particular intent to respond to you anymore or in anyway other than I respond to anyone else, as I see appropriate or fitting or productive or not.

People change because of grace. You can use words endlessly, even perhaps the right ones, but it is grace that saves and wakes up people to acknowledge what is always written in the heart.

 

[mommamaree]

Shin,
Thank you for posting the links and the quotes from the saints. I will definitely take time to peruse the links. I am a newly confirmed Catholic, but have been a baptized Christian raised in various Christian denominations since I was weeks old. I am amazed at how hard it is to see any difference in dress, deportment, speech, etc. of Christians compared to their non-Christian counterparts. It is the main reason I “left the faith” for much of my twenties. I appreciate what Catholicism offers, a long tradition of teaching and the writings of saints that can really guide me in living an authentically Christian life. I care very little if that makes me appear peculiar to others. My concern, especially with this being my neophyte year, is to learn about holiness and obedience. I pray to God that I do not become defensive when confronted with the truth and when it is obvious that I must acknowledge some past sins, as you mentioned.
Ironically, most of my non-maternity clothes are already skirts and dresses that reach at least the knee. It was hardest to find modest clothing for a maternity figure. I wish someone could explain that one to me! I am due today, and hope to welcome my baby any day now. I look forward to one day being able to wear my feminine and modest clothing again, and leave behind the too-tight capris and slouchy sweatpants. Amazingly, my DD5 has a feminine sensibility already, and is learning quickly about modesty, too. She gives me “the look” when we see someone dressed or behaving immodestly on TV, whether it is a male or female. She can already identify when someone is not being a lady or gentleman, or is showing off body parts that ought to be veiled. And she is only 5! Frankly, her ability to see that has been a witness to me, her own mother, about the reality that we do indeed live in a fallen world, and that we must all do what we can as Christians to not present stumbling blocks to our fellow humans.
Anyway, I have appreciated the tone of much of your posting, because while you do offer rebuttals to the ideas and attitudes you see hear, I have noticed that you are trying to remain kind and charitable. It doesn’t help to put someone on the defensive purposefully, but it can help a great deal when a fellow Christian can point out our errors with love and truth.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Well I wore a skirt above the knee with a fitted v-neck white t-shirt to the Vatican 4 years ago and no one said anything to me

Please find a saint that has defined modest clothing in the last 20 years at least.

Modesty changes over time. Our Lady’s clothing would be very different today.

No. Styles may change, but the definition of immodesty doesn’t. Common sense says a mini skirt, a revealing v-neck, or a bikini fit perfectly into that ball park. And they are a far cry from promoting virtue. I’m sorry. That’s the truth of it.

"Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much."

I said it once, I’ll say it again. Our Lady has told us in the 21st century that “Men must cease offending God, Who is already too much offended.” If you cannot accept our Lady’s warning, then I don’t know what to say. As you can see in many of Shin’s posts, the saints have also spoken on this subject–many of whom were mystics.

God Bless you

 

[Shin]

Shin,
Thank you for posting the links and the quotes from the saints. I will definitely take time to peruse the links. I am a newly confirmed Catholic, but have been a baptized Christian raised in various Christian denominations since I was weeks old. I am amazed at how hard it is to see any difference in dress, deportment, speech, etc. of Christians compared to their non-Christian counterparts. It is the main reason I “left the faith” for much of my twenties. I appreciate what Catholicism offers, a long tradition of teaching and the writings of saints that can really guide me in living an authentically Christian life. I care very little if that makes me appear peculiar to others. My concern, especially with this being my neophyte year, is to learn about holiness and obedience. I pray to God that I do not become defensive when confronted with the truth and when it is obvious that I must acknowledge some past sins, as you mentioned.
Ironically, most of my non-maternity clothes are already skirts and dresses that reach at least the knee. It was hardest to find modest clothing for a maternity figure. I wish someone could explain that one to me! I am due today, and hope to welcome my baby any day now. I look forward to one day being able to wear my feminine and modest clothing again, and leave behind the too-tight capris and slouchy sweatpants. Amazingly, my DD5 has a feminine sensibility already, and is learning quickly about modesty, too. She gives me “the look” when we see someone dressed or behaving immodestly on TV, whether it is a male or female. She can already identify when someone is not being a lady or gentleman, or is showing off body parts that ought to be veiled. And she is only 5! Frankly, her ability to see that has been a witness to me, her own mother, about the reality that we do indeed live in a fallen world, and that we must all do what we can as Christians to not present stumbling blocks to our fellow humans.
Anyway, I have appreciated the tone of much of your posting, because while you do offer rebuttals to the ideas and attitudes you see hear, I have noticed that you are trying to remain kind and charitable. It doesn’t help to put someone on the defensive purposefully, but it can help a great deal when a fellow Christian can point out our errors with love and truth.

If only we could all have the wisdom of children and their eyes again! Thank you so much… she sounds so wonderful.

We can never do enough for God. . the virtues, prudence, fortitude… modesty… Honestly, is there anyone here who believes they do not need to practice more of them?

I know I need to be more modest. I know I’ve sinned against modesty many times. I know I do a bad job of writing about it. I try to let others speak instead.

We’re all sinners, we’re all needing to make progress. We don’t want to knock each other’s difficulties and flaws. I’m not looking to tell anyone in particular anything and have a person feeld own – I just want people to know what the standards are… so they can lift themselves up and get help when they need it and know what they need to know. We want to encourage each other to love modesty and virtue and look at ourselves with a tougher eye than we have in the past, because we know we need to be more good.

There’s a man by the name of Fr. Bernard Kunkel who’s material on modesty is very worth reading.

Let me tell you, something that has helped me so much – if you want to be a good Catholic, if you want to go to Heaven, do whatever the saints tell you to do. Read them before all other authors, listen to them. Whatever they are decided on together, whatever their consensus is – learn the Faith from their lives and make them your family. They will help you through everything and you will find answers to so many questions that if you asked elsewhere you would be in danger of getting less than what you needed at least.

Take info from anyone else with larger or smaller servings of salt. Popular authors, your local pastor… you want the genuine faith that gets you to Heaven. The saints have that, they have that still – they are aware of people who read what they wrote, and pray to them and they want nothing but good for everyone. The more friends in Heaven you have, the more family, the more likely you will complete the journey and the better the journey will be.

 

[C_S_P_B]

I don’t do debates and apologetics anymore, in general. I gave that up years ago. Debates make people closed minded, at least one of the participants is usually trying to win points with over the top and often immoral attempts that are obviously not germane. There’s often a lot of self-righteous self defense involved rather than acknowledgement of being a sinner.

I am a Christian. I like conversations with people who are open to the truth, who are fellow seekers wishing to find the most good for themselves and are concerned for their souls. That’s my hope. That’s the spirit.

People who are closed are closed to grace. We should approach our salvation in ‘fear and trembling’ because ‘many are called, but few are chosen’, ‘many seek to enter but are unable’.

A lot of people are living in ways that are offensive to God, and because they are too proud and self defensive, both emotions very foreign to any good spiritual life, they will never get out of them. They are actually afraid to look back over their lives and find sinful habits they have to get rid of! When this is the way to salvation, and without which we can lose it through culpable negligence! It’s hard to imagine. I never understand it.

You can talk to me on this thread or anywhere however you like, but I have no particular intent to respond to you anymore or in anyway other than I respond to anyone else, as I see appropriate or fitting or productive or not.

People change because of grace. You can use words endlessly, even perhaps the right ones, but it is grace that saves and wakes up people to acknowledge what is always written in the heart.

While you claim to have given up apologetics, you embrace it. Here is a definition:
A branch of theology that is concerned with the defense of Christian doctrines

Are you not trying to convince others of your Catholic theological views on modesty?

You hide behind the quotes of others to attempt to convince people that on your view of the modesty and the proper way for Catholics women to dress. Notably lacking in your quotes are any from Karol Wojtyla’s Love & Responsibility. Of course he has not yet been declared a saint, but never-the-less I consider his pre-Papal writings pertinent.

You further attempt to shame me for pointing out the deficiencies and then you attempt to take the high moral ground by dismissing me. I just don’t accept the way you have framed things.

It is quite clear that you like people that agree with you, and embrace your view of the truth, but are quite close minded to others. Maybe I am a condemned man since I don’t embrace your truth. So be it. I will follow the Catholic faith and know that on Judgment Day, I will only have to answer for my real sins and not the projected imagined sins.

I will respond to your posts, even if the posts are not directed at me. (But it may take me a bit more time since I am not quite so verbose and need to do a bit of thinking and research so I can intelligently respond.)

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Bless you mommamaree!
Praying for you.

Praying for all of you.

 

[Shin]

Sigh, CSPB, no, I don’t mean a good deal of those things, you’re reading quite a bit in that isn’t there.

I’m not your enemy, old chap. Take that for what it’s worth.

If you have any issues with me personally, PM me and we’ll discuss it.

 

[edwest2]

Over the last 40 years, very gradually, women who model and act have allowed themselves to portray degrading and immoral characters.

In the 1960s, the nuns required all girls to wear a skirt that covered the knee. Our parents were to be respected. Our behavior needed to be polite and courteous. We were taught these things, and even as a kid, I was pleased by the way people behaved. We were told to stay away from the kids who stole or acted contrary to this. We were not taught to bother them. The same with the occasional adult ‘bad apple’ in our neighborhood.

I politely told my attractive relative that her clothes were a bit inappropriate. She promptly replied, “But all my friends dress like this.”

In the 1960s, the miniskirt was a scandal, but gradually, we, meaning all Christians, were told that women needed to be free and that anyone could dress however they wanted. Some Hippies got naked at Woodstock.

I can’t buy most magazines because of their scandalous covers and contents. At first, they called it art. Today, I can think of no celebrity that can properly be called glamorous because most have allowed themselves to be exploited and do so many immodest things. There was a time when many celebrities, men and women, could be admired for their appearance and for the character they displayed on screen and in public. They could legitimately be regarded as role models.

Today, we have the exact opposite, especially for Christians. Why a young woman would play a doctor who picks up a man for anonymous sex and who drinks liquor straight out of the bottle is beyond me. I saw her recently on a magazine cover and I thought: She’s nice looking but what does she stand for? Anything?

We have anti-role models today and we need to point that out to our kids and young people we know. A few adults need to hear that too. I don’t admire 99% of the celebrities out there. Britney should perform in clothes, not stripper outfits. Lady Gaga trashes all boundaries of good taste. And that’s another thing that’s been lost. How can we put most comedy today in the good taste category? The answer? We can’t. Not with so many comedians saying *uck every 5 seconds.

Let’s call it what it is: sick, disgusting, grossly immodest, crude and in Miss Gaga’s case, freakish.

The moment we become indifferent to any of this, we become more likely to actually accept some of it or even start to enjoy it. No can do, my brothers and sisters. No can do.

God bless,
Ed

 

[lil_flower_luv]

The moment we become indifferent to any of this, we become more likely to actually accept some of it or even start to enjoy it. No can do, my brothers and sisters. No can do.

Great post as usual, Ed.

 

[edwest2]

Thanks.

Ed

 

[C_S_P_B]

Shin, you sigh. I smile.

 

[Serap]

Modesty does not change over time. Modesty has absolute standards that never change. Just like other aspects of moral truth.

Some material for thought to show how modesty is part of the Faith:

“Fashions will much offend Our Lord. People who serve God should not follow fashions. The Church has no fashions. Our Lord is always the same.”

Bl. Jacinta of Fatima

I quote saints, it generally takes longer than 20 years to canonize. But the saints say the same thing from 100 A.D. to 1000 A.D. to today.

Modesty does not change.

They also say that few people go to Heaven. Repeating the scriptures repeated admonishment. That Christians must be different from people of the world.

‘But how can you know anything of the impression made on others? Who can assure you that others do not draw therefrom incentives to evil? You do not know the depths of human frailty. . . Oh, how truly was it said that if some Christian women could only suspect the temptations and falls they cause in others with modes of dress and familiarity in behavior, which they unthinkingly consider as of no importance, they would be shocked by the responsibility which is theirs.’

Pope Pius XII

‘The good of our soul is more important than that of our body; and we have to prefer the spiritual welfare of our neighbor to our bodily comforts. . . If a certain kind of dress constitutes a grave and proximate occasion of sin, and endangers the salvation of your soul and others, it is your duty to give it up.’

Pope Pius XII

‘What is it all for? If they only knew what eternity is.’

Bl. Jacinta Marto of Fatima, age 9, on seeing immodest and fashionably dressed women

‘Let parents keep their daughters away from public gymnastic games and contests; but if their daughters are compelled to attend such exhibitions, let them see that they are fully and modestly dressed. Let them never permit their daughters to appear in immodest dress.’

Decree of the Congregation of the Council (by the mandate of Pope Pius XI), 1930 A.D.

Signs on the doors of San Giovanni Rotondo:

“The Church is the house of God. It is forbidden for men to enter with bare arms or in shorts. It is forbidden for women to enter in trousers, without a veil on their head, in short clothing, low necklines, sleeveless or immodest dresses.”

“By Padre Pio’s explicit wish, women must enter the confessional wearing skirts AT LEAST 8 INCHES BELOW THE KNEE. It is forbidden to borrow longer dresses in church and to wear them to confession.”

‘A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.’

The Cardinal Vicar of Pius XI

One cannot sufficiently deplore the blindness of so many women of every age and condition; made foolish by desire to please, they do not see to what a degree the indecency of their clothing shocks every honest man, and offends God.

Most of them would formerly have blushed for those outfits as for a grave fault against Christian modesty; now it does not suffice for them to exhibit them on the public thoroughfares; they do not fear to cross the threshold of the churches, to assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and even to bear the seducing food of shameful passions to the Eucharistic Table where one receives the Heavenly Author of purity.

And we speak not of these exotic and barbarous dances recently imported into fashionable circles, one more shocking than the other; one cannot imagine anything more suitable for banishing all the remains of modesty.

Pope Benedict XV

‘We must practice modesty, not only in our looks, but also in our whole deportment, and particularly in our dress, our walk, our conversation, and all similar actions.’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church

'You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. . . When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion?

You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul.

And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.’

St. John Chrysostom, Father and Doctor of the Church

Oh but modesty DOES change. If Our Lady set the standard for modesty, then all of the saints would still be saying that we should wear her clothing.

Your arguements are very weak.

I find you to be just like a Pharisee, praying loudly in the church, looking down on others thinking, “if only they were more like me.”

Shame on you!!! All of your good actions are lost to your arrogance.

 

[Serap]

No. Styles may change, but the definition of immodesty doesn’t. Common sense says a mini skirt, a revealing v-neck, or a bikini fit perfectly into that ball park. And they are a far cry from promoting virtue. I’m sorry. That’s the truth of it.

"Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much."

I said it once, I’ll say it again. Our Lady has told us in the 21st century that “Men must cease offending God, Who is already too much offended.” If you cannot accept our Lady’s warning, then I don’t know what to say. As you can see in many of Shin’s posts, the saints have also spoken on this subject–many of whom were mystics.

God Bless you

Then WHY was I allowed into the VATICAN???