IMO... It's better to be Protestant, but tell me why it's better to be Catholic

[CWBetts]

I am not promoting antinomianism, for the law is good according to Scripture, revealing God’s holiness that does not change. When we disobey the law of God, we are in sin. However, our obedience to the law and commandments of God is not the basis for our justification before God, because to be justified at any point of our restored relationship still requires perfection and sinlessness.

If our sin cannot separate us from salvation, then why bother avoiding sin? This changes God from the Good to an arbitrary being. I didn’t get to it with this post, but read the Book of James (even though the heretic Luther called it an “epistle of straw,” because it obliterated his favorite heresy). Faith without works is dead.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

This is because we are bound by the moral law. Being n Christ is not a permission to sin! We can not do good works without the grace, which only comes from God! It takes special graces for those in religious life to adhere to the evangelical counsels. It takes graces to pray, to go to confession, to go to Mass, to adhere to our Lenten sacrifices. This all comes from God, and the instant we stop asking for those graces, and try to depend on ourselves, we fail.

The law is good; we know that according to Scripture. However, if we are trying to be justified by the moral law, then it brings death because we are unable to keep the law perfectly. The moral law is a revelaiton of the holiness of God and is definitely applicable for Christian living. There are different purposes of God’s holy law. For the unredeemed, it is to drive them to Christ, revealing their sinfulness. It sure seems that you believe that we are justified by our conformity and obedience to the law and commandments of God. Do you see Jesus fulfilling the righteous requirement of the law on your behalf in perfect conformity and paying the penalty for breaking the moral law? What do you mean by stating that we are bound by the moral law? Do you mean it as a means for salvation, or Christian living?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

If our sin cannot separate us from salvation, then why bother avoiding sin? This changes God from the Good to an arbitrary being. I didn’t get to it with this post, but read the Book of James (even though the heretic Luther called it an “epistle of straw,” because it obliterated his favorite heresy). Faith without works is dead.

We avoid sin and conform to the will of God because we love God more than sin. However, when we fall in sin in this life, we repent and turn back to God in faith through Christ. It really is a battle for our affections, sin and idols over our love and affection for God. Who is going to rescue me from this body of death? Do you see Jesus as your Savior from the penalty of sin and the bondage of sin too?

 

[Carlan]

When a Catholic falls from grace, do they loose their adoption status and are reunited to Adam at that point. Does a Catholic go from the kingdom of darkness, then kingdom of light at baptism, back to kingdom of darkness upon mortal sin, and back to kingdom of light upon repentance and receiving the sacrament to restore your relationship back to God? It’s not easy to understand the Catholic Faith.

Ask for enlightenment and understanding.

What do you do as a Protestant when you fall into mortal sin.
Are you telling me that once you are justified that no matter what you do, even fall into deadly sin,you cannot be separated from God. How does it work for you, what recourse do you have.
We in the Apostolic Church are given the gift of sanctifying grace in Baptism, Justification,
it is a true eradication of sin and a true sanctification and renewal of the inner man. It is a process of growing in holiness, If for whatever reason we fall back into sin,(and it happens to all of us unfortunately) we have a merciful Father and if we repent he forgives us and restores us to himself, Catholics have the sacramental life to live by to keep us persevering in God love. That to me is what is lacking in Protestantism.Dear God shine you Light on the full Truth.Carlan

 

[OraLabora]

I don’t have a problem with my salvation. I know without a doubt that I am saved.

And therein lies the problem. You think you are bypassing God’s judgement, or you think you know what His judgment will be before it happens. Which means you are usurping His role as sole judge.

You can’t be god, and serve God, at the same time.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Ask for enlightenment and understanding.

What do you do as a Protestant when you fall into mortal sin.
Are you telling me that once you are justified that no matter what you do, even fall into deadly sin,you cannot be separated from God. How does it work for you, what recourse do you have.
We in the Apostolic Church are given the gift of sanctifying grace in Baptism, Justification,
it is a true eradication of sin and a true sanctification and renewal of the inner man. It is a process of growing in holiness, If for whatever reason we fall back into sin,(and it happens to all of us unfortunately) we have a merciful Father and if we repent he forgives us and restores us to himself, Catholics have the sacramental life to live by to keep us persevering in God love. That to me is what is lacking in Protestantism.Dear God shine you Light on the full Truth.Carlan

Would you like me to pray for enlightenment and understanding to understand official Catholic doctrine? Or, do you want me to pray for enlightenment and understanding for the truth. In Catholic theology, did Jesus actually propitiate or pay the penalty for sins? If so, why would Jesus pay for certain sins and not other sins on the cross? The process of growing in holiness is the work of God in us, making us more like Christ to the praise of His glorious transforming grace.

Here’s a tough one. If God knew which Catholics would apostate and die with unforgiven mortal sin, then did Jesus actually pay the price for any of the venial sins committed by those Catholics who died or will die in unforgiven mortal sin. If Christ actually paid the price, and bore the penalty of mortal sins for the Catholic, then mortal sin would not be mortal.

 

[Roblox84]

And therein lies the problem. You think you are bypassing God’s judgement, or you think you know what His judgment will be before it happens. Which means you are usurping His role as sole judge.

You can’t be god, and serve God, at the same time.

Yeah… Even though I may think or “know” I am going to heaven, there is no way I can even feel right by stating so and placing my power above the power of God. All we can do is rely on the grace of God to do so.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

And therein lies the problem. You think you are bypassing God’s judgement, or you think you know what His judgment will be before it happens. Which means you are usurping His role as sole judge.

You can’t be god, and serve God, at the same time.

Do Catholics not see Jesus as our substitute?

 

[CWBetts]

1. There is a major difference in the attitude toward Mary. Protestants honor Mary, of course, as the mother of Jesus. They feel that the Catholic Church has gone too far in venerating Mary so that she rivals Jesus as the central figure of the faith as practiced by many Catholics (as in the rosary, mainly the recitation of ‘Hail Marys’).

ANTI-CATHOLIC ALERT!!! SOMEONE MISREPRESENTING THE CHURCH SIGHTED!!! CATECHIZE IMMEDIATELY!!!
lol

The Rosary is a Biblical prayer.

It is composed of twenty mysteries, set into 4 groups of 5 as follows:

Joyful: (Typically prayed on Monday and Saturday)

1. The Annunciation (Luke 1:26-38)
2. The Visitation (Luke 1:39-56)
3. The Nativity of the Lord (Luke 2: 1-20, Matthew 1:18-25)
   4: The Presentation at the Temple (Luke 2: 22-38)
4. The Finding of the Lord in the Temple (Luke 2: 41-52)

Sorrowful: (typically prayed on Tuesday and Friday)

1. The Agony in the Garden (Mt. 26: 36-46, Mk. 14: 32-42, Lk. 22: 39-46, Jn. 17: 1-26)
2. The Scourging at the Pillar (Mk 15:15, Jn. 19:1)
3. The Crowning with Thorns (Mt. 27: 27-30, Mk 15:16-20, Jn. 19: 2-3)
4. The Carrying of the Cross (Mt. 27: 32, Mk. 15:21, Lk. 23: 26, Jn. 19:17)
5. The Crucifixion (Mt. 27: 33-55, Mk 15: 22-41, Lk. 23: 27-49, Jn. 19:18-37)

Glorious: (Typically prayed on Wednesday and Sunday)

1. The Resurrection (Mt. 28: 1-10, Mk: 16: 1-11, Lk. 24: 1-12, Jn. 20: 1-10)
2. The Ascension (16:19-20, Lk. 50-53, Acts 1: 6-11)
3. The Giving of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2: 1-4)
4. The Assumption of Mary (From non-Canonical Protoevangelium of James)
5. The Coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven (Rev. 12: 1-6)

Luminous: (Typically prayed on Thursday)

1. The Baptism of Jesus (Mt. 3: 13-17, Mk 1: 9-11, Lk 3: 21-22)
2. The Wedding at Cana (Jn. 2: 1-11)
3. Proclamation of the Kingdom (Overarching theme of Matthew’s Gospel)
4. The Transfiguration (Mt. 17: 1-13, Mk 9: 2-8, Lk 9: 28-36)
5. Institution of the Holy Eucharist (Mt. 26:26-29, Mk 14:22-25, Lk 22: 14-23)

So as you see, all except for one of the Mysteries come directly form the Scriptures, and that one is not contrary to Scripture. Furthermore of the 20 mysteries, all but 2 are directly about Jesus. This practice is hardly elevating Mary, as is suggested. In addition, the charge is made that more attention is given Mary due to the Hail Mary. This,short prayer is also to be found in Scripture. Lets look at it line by line:

Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee (this is almost a direct quote of Luke 1:28)
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (also from Scripture, this is Luke 1:42)
Holy Mary Mother of God (This ancient title is rooted in the Scriptures as well, in Luke 1:43)
Pray for us sinners now, and in the hour of our death. (Finally we see that the Hail Mary is a truly scriptural prayer with no other purpose than to ask Mary to pray for us, just as we would ask our friends to pray for us.)

I hop this clears up this common misconception.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

And therein lies the problem. You think you are bypassing God’s judgement, or you think you know what His judgment will be before it happens. Which means you are usurping His role as sole judge.

You can’t be god, and serve God, at the same time.

God already judged us at Calvary in regards to our enmity with God, and cosmic rebellion against Him. The cross brings peace and reconciliation with God and us the sinner. What we are not able to do for ourselves, God acted and done for us what is required for us to be brought near to God as His adopted children. Do Catholics believe differently?

 

[Loboto-Me]

Yeah… Even though I may think or “know” I am going to heaven, there is no way I can even feel right by stating so and placing my power above the power of God. All we can do is rely on the grace of God to do so.

Isn’t presumption a sin?

 

[CWBetts]

God already judged us at Calvary in regards to our enmity with God, and cosmic rebellion against Him. The cross brings peace and reconciliation with God and us the sinner. What we are not able to do for ourselves, God acted and done for us what is required for us to be brought near to God as His adopted children. Do Catholics believe differently?

We believe that we participate in his suffering. His mercy is there for any who want it, but it is up to us to take it. True conversion circumcises our hearts, which results in good works. If good works are not present, if we do not bear fruit, then there was no conversion.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Isn’t presumption a sin?

Is it presumption to take God at His word?

 

[OraLabora]

Would you like me to pray for enlightenment and understanding to understand official Catholic doctrine? Or, do you want me to pray for enlightenment and understanding for the truth. In Catholic theology, did Jesus actually propitiate or pay the penalty for sins? If so, why would Jesus pay for certain sins and not other sins on the cross? The process of growing in holiness is the work of God in us, making us more like Christ to the praise of His glorious transforming grace.

Here’s a tough one. If God knew which Catholics would apostate and die with unforgiven mortal sin, then did Jesus actually pay the price for any of the venial sins committed by those Catholics who died or will die in unforgiven mortal sin. If Christ actually paid the price, and bore the penalty of mortal sins for the Catholic, then mortal sin would not be mortal.

Every time we sin mortally, we turn away from God and deny him, and we become apostates through that act. Mortal sin isn’t in fact so much a “sin” as it is denying God, and denying His sanctifying Grace.

It’s no different than if you, a Protestant, were to decide you no longer believe in Christ as your Saviour, that you lost your faith. Do you think you remain in a state of Grace, and have God’s grace open to you when you deny it? Or are you saying once a believer, always a believer and that apostasy is no longer possible?

Mortal sin is denying God’s dominion over us. It us turning away the cup of Grace. It is becoming a de facto apostate.

To recover that Grace we need to reaffirm our belief in Christ’s work on the Cross. In terms of “works”, the only “work” necessary for salvation is the work of reaffirming our faith in God, after we turn away from Him; so that we may receive his Grace and drink from His cup. We believe we can achieve this through the Sacrament of Reconciliation; which is very aptly named, because we reconcile with Someone we denied.

Protestants seem to think they are “born again” only once, and can no longer lose their faith.

We feel rather than you CAN lose your faith, and you demonstrate it when you sin mortally, by choosing self over God, by elevating yourself above God, which is nothing but blasphemy by another name.

Therefore a Catholic is “born again” on very nearly a daily basis, because mortal sin is just that, mortal to the soul, a dead end, a complete denial of God, an apostasy.

 

[CWBetts]

Is it presumption to take God at His word?

It is not taking God at his word to endorse Sola Fide. I do not know how many times I have to say that Sola Fide was invented by Luther and is not in the Scriptures ANYWHERE. Taking God at His word means we keep His commandments, and do not fall into Mortal Sin.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Is it presumption to take God at His word?

Excerpt taken from EWTN

This is how the Old Catholic Encyclopedia defines the sin of presumption: "It may be defined as the condition of a soul which, because of a badly regulated reliance on God’s mercy and power, hopes for salvation without doing anything to deserve it, or for pardon of his sins without repenting of them."

So yeah it is a sin in this context. Seems to me that this is the definition of the statement " I know I’m going to heaven, just because Jesus did all the work for me so I don’t have to lift a finger"

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

We believe that we participate in his suffering. His mercy is there for any who want it, but it is up to us to take it. True conversion circumcises our hearts, which results in good works. If good works are not present, if we do not bear fruit, then there was no conversion.

This is very similar to historic Protestantism which reconciles Ephesians 2 and James 2. You are making a distinction between professing Christ and one in which God circumcises the heart. Since I do not believe that baptism necessarily converts a sinner, then God changes the heart through the Spirit. Please consider the end of Romans chapter 2.

 

[OraLabora]

God already judged us at Calvary in regards to our enmity with God, and cosmic rebellion against Him. The cross brings peace and reconciliation with God and us the sinner. What we are not able to do for ourselves, God acted and done for us what is required for us to be brought near to God as His adopted children. Do Catholics believe differently?

Matthew 25, 31-46:

" "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me. 'Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."'

Do Protestants believe differently?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Every time we sin mortally, we turn away from God and deny him, and we become apostates through that act. Mortal sin isn’t in fact so much a “sin” as it is denying God, and denying His sanctifying Grace.

It’s no different than if you, a Protestant, were to decide you no longer believe in Christ as your Saviour, that you lost your faith. Do you think you remain in a state of Grace, and have God’s grace open to you when you deny it? Or are you saying once a believer, always a believer and that apostasy is no longer possible?

Mortal sin is denying God’s dominion over us. It us turning away the cup of Grace. It is becoming a de facto apostate.

To recover that Grace we need to reaffirm our belief in Christ’s work on the Cross. In terms of “works”, the only “work” necessary for salvation is the work of reaffirming our faith in God, after we turn away from Him; so that we may receive his Grace and drink from His cup. We believe we can achieve this through the Sacrament of Reconciliation; which is very aptly named, because we reconcile with Someone we denied.

Protestants seem to think they are “born again” only once, and can no longer lose their faith.

We feel rather than you CAN lose your faith, and you demonstrate it when you sin mortally, by choosing self over God, by elevating yourself above God, which is nothing but blasphemy by another name.

Therefore a Catholic is “born again” on very nearly a daily basis, because mortal sin is just that, mortal to the soul, a dead end, a complete denial of God, an apostasy.

Really, so you believe you are born again on a daily basis? Is that the offical Catholic position with 365 rebirths in a year… from kingdom of darkness to kingdom of light over and over again?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Matthew 25, 31-46:

" "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me. 'Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."'

Do Protestants believe differently?

Many profess Christ, and not who profess Christ are actually born from above. The visible church is always a mix of wheat and tares, sheep and goats.