M
MikeInVA
Guest
Please give an example of a law that imposes a uniquely Christian belief.
In a pluralistic society of different beliefs, does the Christian have the right to impose their religious beliefs on those who do not believe?
- Status
I
IWantGod
Guest
It’s not so much that i don’t want abortion to be outlawed, it just that i don’t see how we could without forcing our religious beliefs about what constitutes a person on the rest of society. Also if abortion was illegal we would have the duty of forcing women to full-term, who were at risk of committing abortion, in-order to protect what we believe to be a person. And i don’t see how we could practically and morally achieve that end without undermining other human rights that women have.
Policing women’s wombs just sounds a bit disturbing to me, and not any less so just because abortion is wrong.
Last edited:
D
Dan123
Guest
And for what it’s worth, some of those women would die. We’ve brought the mortality rate for pregnant women down a lot in the developed world but it’s still > 0.
It does leave an interesting conundrum, if a woman is 100% going to die because of a major problem with the pregnancy, then is it allowed? What about the real world where you never get 100% answers, what if it’s 90% likely? 75? 50? What if it’s 90% likely the mother will die but the child will most likely survive?
Such things would really need to be codified in the law for it to stand up long term I think.
Yes. The society is Christian and founded on Christian pribciples. Those who wish to live in this society are obliged to follow our laws.
H
HolySpirit
Guest
American Civil Law comes from England. England comes from Rome and the continent. Of course, the entire common law system is based on Christian morality.
Last edited:
I
IWantGod
Guest
In terms of America, i don’t actually think that is true. I think that Christian principles were largely adopted for their practical necessities. And at one time when society was largely a Christian dominated culture, and the Christian had the dominant voice, laws and activities existed that appeased the sensibilities of Christians. But i don’t believe that it was ever the agenda to create a Christian theocracy in the sense that law was dictated according to Christian beliefs.Otherwise it would never in principle be able to change. Abortion laws as they exist today would never have seen the light of day. America is not exactly a Christian democracy is it.
Last edited:
You have a point. But the actual structure and basis of all western societies is Christian. Even the idea that individuals ought to be able to determine their own fate and path in life is something from Christianity. The freedom we all enjoy is down to the fact that the Christian worldview sees persons as autonomous agents, capable of free thought and action, and possesing a special dignity.
Just because society has strayed from it’s principles doesn’t mean it’s not still very Christian in it’s worldview.
Just because society has strayed from it’s principles doesn’t mean it’s not still very Christian in it’s worldview.
For the record, Ireland doesn’t have abortion, but our maternal mortality rate is better than the UK and the US which does have abortion.
H
HolySpirit
Guest
Our entire legal system was taken from England. It is based on English Common law. We based our precedents on English Common law. We continue to look to England today in areas like real property disputes. Did you ever study American history?
J
JanSobieskiIII
Guest
Yes, they should.
And other religions should be suppressed.
And other religions should be suppressed.
A
Annie
Guest
As long as abortion is legal, the only issue is under what circumstances is it all right to kill innocent human beings?
Why is it legal for a woman to hire someone to kill her child before it is born, but not to kill her child herself just a couple of hours later?
Why is it all right to kill a Downs Syndrome child before it is born, but not after it is born?
Is it all right to kill a person who seems to be permanently unconscious?
Is it all right to kill someone who is gravely handicapped?
Just to clarify, by kill I mean to take a direct action or to neglect an action which has as its intention the death of the other human being.
Why is it legal for a woman to hire someone to kill her child before it is born, but not to kill her child herself just a couple of hours later?
Why is it all right to kill a Downs Syndrome child before it is born, but not after it is born?
Is it all right to kill a person who seems to be permanently unconscious?
Is it all right to kill someone who is gravely handicapped?
Just to clarify, by kill I mean to take a direct action or to neglect an action which has as its intention the death of the other human being.
I
IWantGod
Guest
The point is, those laws are adopted for their practicalities in governing society, not because they are Christian in nature. Is a Buddhist a Christian because he agrees with the concept of compassion? No. There is just an agreement, and we might come to that agreement for fundamentally different reasons. Do you see English people walking around with holstered weapons. No. So you don’t get all your laws from England.
Isn’t that just commonsense?
Isn’t that just commonsense?
Last edited:
I
IWantGod
Guest
I can’t agree with that. I don’t believe the Catholic Church agrees with that either.
Yes. And that makes the society a christian society, in essence. It doesn’t matter the reason they were adopted. The moral system that gave rise to them is what matters. Islamic countries often have very different laws and codes of behaviour. If we adopted those codes, without actually converting to the religion, we would still be living in an essentially Islamic society.
A
Annie
Guest
Christian principles tend to be those of Natural Law. Throughout history, people have found the best ways to live, and these are Natural Law. So those “Christian” principles can be part of our law.
However, I do not believe that we should impose attending Mass, partaking of the Eucharist worthily, etc., by law on everyone.
However, I do not believe that we should impose attending Mass, partaking of the Eucharist worthily, etc., by law on everyone.
I
IWantGod
Guest
No not really. Is an atheist a Christian in essence just because he agrees with most christian moral values for practical reasons? I don’t think so. That don’t make sense to me.
Last edited:
D
Dan123
Guest
Might be fair to summarize it as laws that have a religious origin or source can and often should be civil laws, but ideas that ONLY have a religious reason to them probably not. So murder, law, Jewish dietary limitations? Probably not.
I’m not saying that. I’m saying that the atheist is living in a Christian society, even if he’s not actually Christian.
Society will continue to be Christian until such time as the laws are replaced with a moral code that is radically different from what was there before. (e.g. Sharia Law)
P
Pup7
Guest
No, it’s not, actually.
The UK rate is 8.6.
The US’s is 16.7.
(**ETA about a half-hour later…I had yet to finish a cup of coffee, and in the interest of integrity I’m not editing myself…but yeah, I see the error of my ways. I owned it.
)
Maternal mortality: how many women die in childbirth in your country?
A new study shows how many women still die in childbirth around the world. See what the figures are
www.theguardian.com
That would be interesting for the OP. I’ve lived in Saudi Arabia - lived in Riyadh for three years, actually. Wonder what he’d think of Sharia law over a Christian-based code?
Last edited:
I
IWantGod
Guest
I disagree. Agreement with the practical benefits of any religious principle does not necessitate that one is religious or agrees with religion in general or that a society is religious.
- Status