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buffalo
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Where do each of these rights come from?
In a pluralistic society of different beliefs, does the Christian have the right to impose their religious beliefs on those who do not believe?
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anikins
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Basic human dignity.
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edwest211
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I watched it happen. Some people wanted a Humanist Only society, while working to get get God and His ministers out of sight and out of mind. The slow poisoning of the Body of Christ in the West meant, bit by bit, people began to lose their spiritual sense of right and wrong. When man tries to make himself God, he is ignoring the principles and way of life proper to man and trying to replace it with their imagined way of life. The results have been widespread degradation. Today is not better.
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BoomBoomMancini
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Can we get @chunkmonk to confirm he wants the death penalty for blasphemy? So, we kill everyone who denies Christ’s divinity?
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Damian
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You missed the explanation here, what was the “hand-wave”? You lead up to the “hand-wave” but never pointed out what you thought was a “hand-wave”. So, what was my “hand-wave” to you?
I know. But my point is that it doesn’t have to be an organized group of people with a specific agenda. Town meetings are like this where the “group of people” is just the local citizens getting together to have access to their representatives to talk about what is going on in government. They don’t have a specific topic other than having access to their government and having a conversation. Individuals can have a specific agenda as much as a group could as well. But everyone has access to their government to be heard, not just interest groups.
Sorry, I know you want me to be this role for you, but my conversation has not indicated this. Please read what I actually wrote instead of just by passing it so you can get to your talking points. Secular governments allow people to question even the foundational reference point of their moral law system. I currently understand the largest universal overlap for that reference point to be “human well-being”. If you have a better point, then argue for it. I may not accept it, but it doesn’t mean its wrong, just that you failed to convince me. Just like I have failed to convince you that “human well-being” is a better reference point for moral legal systems than a specific cultural tradition of a specific religion.
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MPat
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And let me guess - you decide that something is an “attempt to confuse the issue” when you start feeling confused?
And, since you are confused on this issue, that happens whenever you get closer to truth?
After all, it is obvious that your views on this issue are incompatible with teaching of the Church. And, apparently, your conscience does its work little by little…
So, once again you keep confusing the questions.
You asked me if I would be content if Muslims tried to enforce something from Sharia law. And yes, I see no reason to object about them trying to. Of course, I would probably try to make sure that they would not succeed, but that’s a different question.
And now you act as if the question was about the American law. But it was not. And I don’t care about American law that much. I am not an American.
This:
It is not an argument showing that necessity of human equality follows from trying to achieve “Human well-being”. It is not an argument at all. At best that is just some bad poetry, trying to evoke some feeling.
But arguments are to be made using “cold” reason, not feelings.
Interest groups can have different levels of organisation. There are even “anonymous interest groups”, being just crowds that spontaneously protest against some decision.
Oh, of course you do not notice you are proposing your own personal dictatorship.
But still, you are proposing that.
First you claim that anything else those other people want is too partisan. Then you propose your “Human well-being” as something neutral. And then we discover that this “Human well-being” is not really neutral - it is simply a name for your own goals.
So, why don’t we all come together and work on your goals! Um, sorry, not interested.
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Bradskii
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So nobody does it better. Now you want to admit you are doing badly. We’ll, you can’t really deny that. So your first claim was blowing smoke.
And now you want to claim that an unorganised disparate number of people perhaps representing 2 or 3 percent of the population is to blame for it all that you consider to be problems. You have to laugh.
In passing, do you know the largest group that have abortions? Clue: Cath_lics.
Fill in the missing letter to find out the answer.
And now you want to claim that an unorganised disparate number of people perhaps representing 2 or 3 percent of the population is to blame for it all that you consider to be problems. You have to laugh.
In passing, do you know the largest group that have abortions? Clue: Cath_lics.
Fill in the missing letter to find out the answer.
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ChunkMonk
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What is it with this strange habit among modern men to “clarify” and pretend as if their secular effeminate outrage serves as an argument? You can read well enough what I wrote. If you have a problem, use your reason and discuss it. If you just want to scoff and use “current year” type arguments then I have no interest in discussion.
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BoomBoomMancini
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I’m trying to clarify because I don’t want to misintrepret your beliefs. I don’t want to get four steps down the road only to realize we’re not talking about the same thing.
Do you believe that people who publicly Christ’s divinity should be killed? It’s a very straightforward question. I’m asking you to state it as clearly as possible because I don’t want to be accused later of misrepresenting you.
Do you believe that people who publicly Christ’s divinity should be killed? It’s a very straightforward question. I’m asking you to state it as clearly as possible because I don’t want to be accused later of misrepresenting you.
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BoomBoomMancini
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Right, so you have an observant, say, Methodist who refuses to acknowledge the papacy or one of the Marian doctrines. He’s convicted at trial. He goes to the scaffolds, then.
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ChunkMonk
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Believe whatever you want. I wrote what I wrote, and it was pretty clear. If you want to debate with that nice strawman you’ve built then have at it. Tilting at windmills.
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ChunkMonk
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Feeling feisty are you? Perhaps your “repulsive reptile” line and the oh so original “everyone must hate you!” non-argument was why I didn’t care for your “honest question” and “direct example”. You have a conclusion and fit the premise accordingly. I’m not blind to how I’m perceived, nor do I particularly see the value in playing the good faith game with people who won’t say what they actually think.
Next time come out with all cards on the table. If you want to tear into me, just do it at the start like a man. Don’t do this “excuse me???” 3rd-Grade teacher act. I’d rather a man spit in my face then smile at me while he’s sharpening the knife behind his back. You’re a man, act like it. Say what you want to say plainly.
Next time come out with all cards on the table. If you want to tear into me, just do it at the start like a man. Don’t do this “excuse me???” 3rd-Grade teacher act. I’d rather a man spit in my face then smile at me while he’s sharpening the knife behind his back. You’re a man, act like it. Say what you want to say plainly.
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IsaiahSpirit
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Everyone starts growing at the instant of conception. A unique DNA. Every person walking the earth started that way. It is unconscionable since person-hood cannot be disproved to deny the right to life. It is objectively not moral unless someone wants to start playing semantics. And there is plenty of playing at heartstrings convoluted rhetoric which is very crafty to blur the truth.
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Bradskii
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Whoa, no you don’t. You don’t slide away from tbe argument by turning it around. The US was held up as an example of how Christianity is the best system to produce this utopic society.Bradskii:
Building a free and democratic society.
Please point me to a society NOT based on Judeo-Christian law and values that does better in ALL of these things.
Then it was admitted that maybe the society hasn’t turned out so well after all.
So then it was decided, after admiting that being such a God fearin’ Christian country hasn’t had the desired results then It must be somebody elses fault. And atheists at that!
Can I ask who you think are having all these abortions? Who you think commit all the rapes and murders? Who are all these people commiting adultry and getting divorced? Who all these people are having sex before marriage? All these masturbators and fornicators and people engaging in unatural sexual trysts?
The country prides itself on being a Christian country. It is overwhelmingly Christian. I have travelled around tbe States these last 3 months and I have never seen so many churches and so many billboards proclaiming the Christian way of life. I have lost count of the bumper stickers and t shirts telli g me that Jesus is coming.
And you want to blame are your problems on me?
You are self delusional.
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ChunkMonk
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But tell me about your opinion of God.
And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die: all the multitude shall stone him, whether he be a native or a stranger. He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die.
Leviticus 24:16
You could come in swinging instead of playing this effeminate game of pretending like you want to engage in an argument. Don’t give me this bull about “due process” we both know that from the very beginning this is where you were going with it. That’s why I didn’t play your silly little game. You don’t have anything else but insults and faux-outrage. So next time just start out with that. If you got hate in your heart, let it shine. Don’t hide it under a false front. All foreplay and no climax.
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buffalo
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Did I claim America was an organic Christian society where all its adherents were 100% faithful? No.
I made the point that since we displaced God it has had ill effects.
The key to this is to be faithful to Jesus’ teachings. I think you purposely are ignoring this important point.
I made the point that since we displaced God it has had ill effects.
The key to this is to be faithful to Jesus’ teachings. I think you purposely are ignoring this important point.
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buffalo
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Be honest. You are twisting this. Much of society has abandoned the faithful practice of Christianity and instead is one of me, myself and I.
Atheists have ridden on the back of our Judeo Christian society and enjoy many of the benefits. You just don’t want the God part.
Perhps your utopia would be a fully atheistic country. As an experiment try it out. Oh. it has been tried…
Remember, it was an atheist who petitioned the courts to remove God. It is atheists who are trying to remove the 10 commandments and crosses. It is atheism that is responsible for over 100 million deaths in the last century. Why? When humans are looked at as just higher animals and not in the image and likeness of God, power is the rule.
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edwest211
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I watched on TV as a priest lay prostrate along stone steps as a carved open Bible was removed from a public building. I saw the Nativity in front of a City Hall removed to a plot of land nearby that was leased by a secular group because someone decided having a ‘creche’ in front of a public building was wrong. No one had to look at it or put money in it and so on. Out of sight or restricted viewing in the case of the creche - you can put it here but not there. An atheist-based dictatorship under the guise of protecting religion. A nearby community had stores with speakers on the outside that played Christmas music. It is claimed someone was offended. So an ordinance was passed that allowed the stores to play the music but without the words. So we get Silent Night but no words.
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mcq72
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Well, some courts are ordering the ten commandments to be taken down from court houses etc. because if people read them, they might keep them! And we cant have religion influencing public sector via government sector.
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mcq72
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No it does not , anymore, and that for a long time.
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