In Catholicism: No man knows the day or the hour? Does Jesus know?

[Benadam]

But they are Persons. We can’t distinguish their Persons but they can. They are distinct from each other to themselves.

 

[AlNg]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are omniscient.

How can the Holy Spirit be omniscient if only the Father knows the day or hour?

 

[Wesrock]

Yes, yes, continue in your fundamentalist “plain speech” approach to scriptures.

 

[Wesrock]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all possess the same knowledge. And not meaning copies of the same knowledge held by different persons, but truly that there is one divine mind possessed equally by all three persons. The Son did not assume a human body to share the day and the hour of final judgment. There’s been discussion as to whether Jesus’ human mind held all divine knowledge or not, but that’s not really needed to respond to the point.

 

[AlNg]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all possess the same knowledge.

But it says that only the Father knows the day or hour?

 

[dshix]

Christ knew in His Divine nature, because He could not not know, being God. But in His human nature, He did not know. He chose to speak from His human nature at that time.

 

[Wesrock]

It’s not a science textbook, it’s the Good News. Different manners of speaking, figures of speech, etc… exist in it, and the text is not meant to be interpreted or read in a vacuum. It’s not something one can just pick up and have every fine point perfectly clear, nor is it a systematic theological treatise or liturgical manual.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are omniscient.

How can the Holy Spirit be omniscient if only the Father knows the day or hour?

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are omniscient. The Gospel of Mark does not say that Jesus said that the Holy Spirit does not know just that “neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father” however since the Son is speaking it is logical when speaking from human nature.

Perichoresis or Circuminsession.

From Modern Catholic Dictionary: The mutual immanence of the three distinct persons of the Holy Trinity. The Father is entirely in the Son, likewise in the Holy Spirit; and so is the Son in the Father and the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit in the Father and the Son.

Circuminsession also identifies the mutual immanence of the two distinct natures in the one Person of Jesus Christ.

 

[AlNg]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are omniscient. The Gospel of Mark does not say that Jesus said that the Holy Spirit does not know just that “neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father” however since the Son is speaking it is logical when speaking from human nature.

Here is what I read:
Matthew 24:36 36"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

 

[steve-b]

Vico:

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are omniscient. The Gospel of Mark does not say that Jesus said that the Holy Spirit does not know just that “neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father” however since the Son is speaking it is logical when speaking from human nature.

Here is what I read:
Matthew 24:36 36"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Here is how Jesus answers these questions being asked so far.

For our salvation, God incarnate, needed to be perfectly obedient as substitute for our total lack of obedience. Something we could never do ourselves

Therefor

Jn 5:19
the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Jn 6:
38* For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;

Jn 8:29
The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

Jn 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Jn 12:50
whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

Jn 14:10
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Jn 14:31
I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

Therefor

it is the Father whose decision it is, to keep certain information quiet. However we have enough information to believe correctly, do what’s right, and make it to heaven provided we do things His way and not ours.

 

[AlNg]

If no one knows the day or the hour with the only exception being the Father, would that not mean that the Holy Spirit does not know the day or the hour?

 

[steve-b]

If no one knows the day or the hour with the only exception being the Father, would that not mean that the Holy Spirit does not know the day or the hour?

A good friend was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. The docs said he had 5 yrs left to live. And darned if they got it right, almost down to the month from the diagnosis. That shows how good some cancer docs can be at what they know and can do. But outside of God telling us individually that information, my friends case is the only reference I have to a person being given that knowledge of when their life’s going to end.

All I can say, it might be good in general to know when the end is, but can also think of all kinds of problems with that knowledge.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are omniscient. The Gospel of Mark does not say that Jesus said that the Holy Spirit does not know just that “neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father” however since the Son is speaking it is logical when speaking from human nature.

Here is what I read:
Matthew 24:36 36"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

There is no mention of the person of the Holy Spirit at all there, only one divine person of the Trinity, which is consistent with the other Gospel, when contrasting creatures (which includes human nature of the Son) and the Divine.

 

[Benadam]

I think because he didn’t mention the Holy Spirit that He does know. I think if even the Holy Spirit was out of the loop Jesus might have said, " and if you can accept it, even the Holy Spirit knows not the time". for those who have ears to hear.

 

[AlNg]

There is no mention of the person of the Holy Spirit at all there,

It says that no one knows, with one exception only. That exception is the Father. The Holy Spirit and the Son are not included in the exception.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

There is no mention of the person of the Holy Spirit at all there,

It says that no one knows, with one exception only. That exception is the Father. The Holy Spirit and the Son are not included in the exception.

However, we know that is not the teaching of the Catholic Church (that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are omniscent) nor is that that same as what is stated in Matthew 24:36.

 

[Luke-Suncook]

dh aduh sartusrtuiksrt6aert57 ar5u

 

[Vico]

The words of Jesus often do go dead against the Trinity doctrine. Jesus saying he doesn’t know when he returns kind of puts it on the spot.

As the Haydock Commentary states for Matthew 24:36:

Ver. 36. No man knoweth … but the Father alone. The words in St. Mark (xiii. 32.) are still harder: neither the angels, nor the Son, but the Father. The Arians objected this place, to shew that Christ being ignorant of the day of judgment, could not be truly God. By the same words, no one knoweth, but the Father alone, (as they expound them) the Holy Ghost must be excluded from being the true God. In answer to this difficulty, when it is said, but the Father alone, it is certain that the eternal Son and the Holy Ghost could never be ignorant of the day of judgment: because, as they are one and the same God, so they must have one and the same nature, the same substance, wisdom, knowledge, and all absolute perfections. 2. It is also certain that Jesus Christ knew the day of judgment, and all things to come, by a knowledge which he could not but have, because of the union by which his human nature was united to the divine person and nature. See Colossians ii. 3. And so to attribute any ignorance to Christ, was the error of those heretics called Agnoitai. 3. But though Christ, as a man, knew the day of judgment, yet this knowledge was not due to him as he was man, or because he was man, but he only knew the day of judgment, because he was God as well as man. 4. It is the common answer of the fathers, that Christ here speaks to his disciples, only as he was the ambassador of his Father; and so he is only to know what he is to make known to men. He is said not to know, says St. Augustine[5], what he will not make others know, or what he will not reveal to them. (Witham) — By this Jesus Christ wished to suppress the curiosity of his disciples. In the same manner after his resurrection, he answered the same question: 'Tis not for you to know the times and the moments, which the Father has placed in his own power. This last clause is added, that the apostles might not be discouraged and think their divine Master esteemed them unworthy of knowing these things. Some Greek manuscripts add nor even the Son, as in Mark xiii. 32. The Son is ignorant of it, not according to his divinity, nor even according to his humanity hypostatically united to his divinity, but according to his humanity, considered as separate from his divinity. (Bible de Vence)

 

[Benadam]

Can the human body even receive omniscience? When it is glorified IMHO that’s when omniscience is returned to Jesus.

 

[AlNg]

Can the human body even receive omniscience? When it is glorified IMHO that’s when omniscience is returned to Jesus.

While on earth, did Jesus have one mind, a mind which was both human and divine?