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bardegaulois
Guest
Thank you, but I’m really not interested.
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njlisa
Guest
@bardegaulois: For the spiritual protection of both of you, you and your friend should cut off all contact for good. Further contact, I fear, is an occasion of sin.
The separation will be difficult. But once you’ve crossed the line into emotional intimacy, you can’t put genie back in the bottle.
I’ve seen too many married folks develop office “friendships” that lead to affairs and divorces.
I agree with the suggestion to speak with a priest.
God bless you at this difficult time.
The separation will be difficult. But once you’ve crossed the line into emotional intimacy, you can’t put genie back in the bottle.
I’ve seen too many married folks develop office “friendships” that lead to affairs and divorces.
I agree with the suggestion to speak with a priest.
God bless you at this difficult time.
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nunsense
Guest
If this situation were reversed, in that you were a married man with a child and she was a single woman, you could see it more clearly. She would be ‘the other woman’ or a ‘house wrecker’ etc. And her own friends would be telling her not to get involved with a married man, especially one with a family.
There is simply no way you should be seeing this woman in her current situation. It would be difficult enough if she had already left her husband and was divorced, but since she is still married, being together isn’t even an option. Her husband is being cuckolded by you two - emotionally perhaps but eventually it will go further.
I think you know that you are doing wrong but can’t stop yourself because you are getting a certain amount of pleasure out of the relationship. If you can’t see this, then I doubt you would make a very good priest either. Clean up your act. And as someone else said, seeing this woman has nothing to do with your discernment. Since she is off limits anyway, your choices are between becoming a priest or finding someone else to marry.
There is simply no way you should be seeing this woman in her current situation. It would be difficult enough if she had already left her husband and was divorced, but since she is still married, being together isn’t even an option. Her husband is being cuckolded by you two - emotionally perhaps but eventually it will go further.
I think you know that you are doing wrong but can’t stop yourself because you are getting a certain amount of pleasure out of the relationship. If you can’t see this, then I doubt you would make a very good priest either. Clean up your act. And as someone else said, seeing this woman has nothing to do with your discernment. Since she is off limits anyway, your choices are between becoming a priest or finding someone else to marry.
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halogirl
Guest
Can’t really improve on any answer here. No good can come of this. You are being led away from your vocation whichever way you look at it ; be there priesthood, marriage to someone else, or single life. Guess who likes to do things like that? You are all going to be destroyed by this if you allow it to continue. Get out of the situation while you still can and prevent potential years of damage
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do_justly_love_mercy
Guest
When I clicked on this topic this was not what I was expecting! I was expecting a guy who’s struggling to choose between his girlfriend and the priesthood, but this sounds a whole lot more complicated.
It sounds like your friends need to sort out the problems that they have in their marriage without the extra complication of your involvement with one of them. You owe that to them and their family and to yourself. It may be that at some point in the future your friend is free to marry and you can revisit the situation. Or not, as the case may be. It may be that if she were ever free to marry you’d find that you didn’t have those kinds of feelings towards her any more. That does happen: sometimes the attraction only lasts as long as the other person isn’t actually available. Equally, you must be prepared for the fact that your friends may sort out the problems they have and go on to have a long, happy marriage, which would probably be best for everyone involved. Finally, you have to wonder how clear your judgment is about this. Is it possible the way you perceive things is influenced by your feelings?
As for your discernment, that’s probably above my pay grade, but for what it’s worth, I wonder whether your being in love ought to be telling you something about the direction you want for your life. Are you ready to exclude the possibility of a romantic relationship at any point in the future?
I do feel for you. It sounds like you are going through a pretty tough time. I shall remember all of you in my prayers tonight.
It sounds like your friends need to sort out the problems that they have in their marriage without the extra complication of your involvement with one of them. You owe that to them and their family and to yourself. It may be that at some point in the future your friend is free to marry and you can revisit the situation. Or not, as the case may be. It may be that if she were ever free to marry you’d find that you didn’t have those kinds of feelings towards her any more. That does happen: sometimes the attraction only lasts as long as the other person isn’t actually available. Equally, you must be prepared for the fact that your friends may sort out the problems they have and go on to have a long, happy marriage, which would probably be best for everyone involved. Finally, you have to wonder how clear your judgment is about this. Is it possible the way you perceive things is influenced by your feelings?
As for your discernment, that’s probably above my pay grade, but for what it’s worth, I wonder whether your being in love ought to be telling you something about the direction you want for your life. Are you ready to exclude the possibility of a romantic relationship at any point in the future?
I do feel for you. It sounds like you are going through a pretty tough time. I shall remember all of you in my prayers tonight.
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CathoRick
Guest
I’m not sure Barney Fife is the best person to quote regarding emotional affairs… he also says “Sarah, get me Juanita over at the diner.” just as often. 
Poor Thelma Lou.
Poor Thelma Lou.
I am very sorry to have to say this, but it sounds like the evil one has found your vulnerability, and is trying to use this to coax you away from your vocation.
No normal, heterosexual male can spend the evening holding hands with a woman without there being a mutual romantic component to it.
Even if she is invalidly married, and could leave her husband for you, this is not a can of worms you want to open up, especially with a child involved. The man may not be her husband in the Eyes of God, but he is her child’s father. Fatherhood doesn’t get annulled or be declared to have a “lack of form”. If she were actually to go ahead and divorce him, that would put somewhat of a different coloration on things, but that hasn’t happened, and from what you say, it doesn’t look like that is going to happen. Even then, it would still be a distraction from your vocation.
I know many people do otherwise these days, but having any sort of opposite-sex relationship — even a platonic one — is something that has been traditionally discouraged for one discerning a vocation. Having such a relationship doesn’t make discernment any easier.
I fear this is more “romantic” than you might wish to admit.
I really have to wonder what kind of husband allows an “old friend” of his wife to come over for dinner, then retires to bed and leaves them up in each other’s company. It’s nothing I would ever do, I can tell you that.
No normal, heterosexual male can spend the evening holding hands with a woman without there being a mutual romantic component to it.
Even if she is invalidly married, and could leave her husband for you, this is not a can of worms you want to open up, especially with a child involved. The man may not be her husband in the Eyes of God, but he is her child’s father. Fatherhood doesn’t get annulled or be declared to have a “lack of form”. If she were actually to go ahead and divorce him, that would put somewhat of a different coloration on things, but that hasn’t happened, and from what you say, it doesn’t look like that is going to happen. Even then, it would still be a distraction from your vocation.
I know many people do otherwise these days, but having any sort of opposite-sex relationship — even a platonic one — is something that has been traditionally discouraged for one discerning a vocation. Having such a relationship doesn’t make discernment any easier.
I fear this is more “romantic” than you might wish to admit.
I really have to wonder what kind of husband allows an “old friend” of his wife to come over for dinner, then retires to bed and leaves them up in each other’s company. It’s nothing I would ever do, I can tell you that.
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alphonsus1
Guest
In Catholicism there is no sin of “emotional affairs.” This has no basis in Catholicism. Rather, there are three questions.
(1) Is this near occasion of sin,
(2) Is this intrinsically evil, are your intentions good, and is this prudent
(3) are there sins of scandal or any other sins (like sins of omission),
Ans (1). It depends, in my assessment, on whether one is physically attracted to the woman? If yes, then forming any deep emotional connection with a woman can very easily become near occasion of sin to exterior acts. Therefore, flee at all costs! If a man is not physically attracted from the onset whatsoever, then given physical attraction typically does NOT develop that never existed in the beginning, there could very well be no near occasion of sin. For this reason, given many men are naturally repulsed by the idea of homosexual acts, heterosexual men can totally have “emotional affairs” with other men with no chance of it becoming romantic. As far as women, men are not physically attracted to every woman. There may be women for which one has no physical attraction whatsoever. If physical attraction does not exist from the onset, then for most men, it will likely never develop in the future. This is why a heterosexual man forming an extremely close emotional connection with another man poses almost no danger of him also forming a homosexual physical attraction. Thus, forming deep emotional connections is not always sinful. Therefore, first answer whether this is near occasion of sin!
Ans (2): No, this is not intrinsically evil even if you are physically attracted to the woman (although if you are attracted to the woman in any way it is almost certainly imprudent and very easily near occasion of sin). Your intentions must also be pure. Finally, consider the third source of morality, the question of prudence, the circumstances of the act. Are there negative effects that outweigh the positives? For example, the very fact that women think “emotional affairs” is a sin in itself (it isn’t, the sins are attacks against the sixth commandment and near occasion thereof), shows that feelings like jealousy, etc, must be considered. Therefore, to evaluate the circumstances, perform a prudential evaluation of the positive and negative effects.
Ans (3): It could very well be the wicked sin of scandal to be alone with a woman. Flee at all costs, at all costs, from sins of scandal. Therefore, a single man must make sure (unless there is proportionate cause justifying it) that his relationship with women stays to letters, text messages, and conversations in public. Never be alone with women for any extended period of time without a proportionately just reason! And if you are physically attracted to the women, then a proportionate reason of even larger weight is necessary. A substantial minority of men, particularly ones that have ever had “addictions,” should avoid ALL physical contact in dating. Period!
(1) Is this near occasion of sin,
(2) Is this intrinsically evil, are your intentions good, and is this prudent
(3) are there sins of scandal or any other sins (like sins of omission),
Ans (1). It depends, in my assessment, on whether one is physically attracted to the woman? If yes, then forming any deep emotional connection with a woman can very easily become near occasion of sin to exterior acts. Therefore, flee at all costs! If a man is not physically attracted from the onset whatsoever, then given physical attraction typically does NOT develop that never existed in the beginning, there could very well be no near occasion of sin. For this reason, given many men are naturally repulsed by the idea of homosexual acts, heterosexual men can totally have “emotional affairs” with other men with no chance of it becoming romantic. As far as women, men are not physically attracted to every woman. There may be women for which one has no physical attraction whatsoever. If physical attraction does not exist from the onset, then for most men, it will likely never develop in the future. This is why a heterosexual man forming an extremely close emotional connection with another man poses almost no danger of him also forming a homosexual physical attraction. Thus, forming deep emotional connections is not always sinful. Therefore, first answer whether this is near occasion of sin!
Ans (2): No, this is not intrinsically evil even if you are physically attracted to the woman (although if you are attracted to the woman in any way it is almost certainly imprudent and very easily near occasion of sin). Your intentions must also be pure. Finally, consider the third source of morality, the question of prudence, the circumstances of the act. Are there negative effects that outweigh the positives? For example, the very fact that women think “emotional affairs” is a sin in itself (it isn’t, the sins are attacks against the sixth commandment and near occasion thereof), shows that feelings like jealousy, etc, must be considered. Therefore, to evaluate the circumstances, perform a prudential evaluation of the positive and negative effects.
Ans (3): It could very well be the wicked sin of scandal to be alone with a woman. Flee at all costs, at all costs, from sins of scandal. Therefore, a single man must make sure (unless there is proportionate cause justifying it) that his relationship with women stays to letters, text messages, and conversations in public. Never be alone with women for any extended period of time without a proportionately just reason! And if you are physically attracted to the women, then a proportionate reason of even larger weight is necessary. A substantial minority of men, particularly ones that have ever had “addictions,” should avoid ALL physical contact in dating. Period!
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aroosi
Guest
She is married. She has a child. Leave her alone. If you feel you are falling in love with women leave the seminary and pursue the vocation to have your own family but please please please find a woman that is not already in a serious relationship.
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on_the_hill
Guest
You already know the answer. You knew it before you made the first post.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Loving someone is a choice. We don’t catch love like the flu or fall into it like a hidden manhole.
There is infatuation, but, we have to “feed” that emotion.
Our OP needs to chose not to have romantic feelings. He is an adult, he can make that choice.
I have found that some women think they can have a deep emotional and friendship connection with a man not their spouse, but they do not comprehend the physical urgency that can arise in the man. Some women actually prefer to interact with gay men, because they crave this emotional aspect of opposite-sex friendship, and want to have it without the physical aspect. That doesn’t work for heterosexual men. Yet one more difference in the way that men and women “operate”.
There aren’t many women who would be content with not having chaste displays of physical affection, such as holding hands, a hug, or a brief kiss. Does the Church condemn this? It has always been my understanding that some arousal, as long as it is not overpowering, can be tolerated in dating, but only tolerated and never deliberately sought. Normal men of a certain age can’t be expected not to experience such mild effects of a kiss or holding hands. Prolonged kissing or exploring with the hands, in places where hands have no business being outside of marriage, is to be avoided at all costs.
Many women expect much more. They are not the women you wish to date, if you care anything about your soul (and hers).
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Mary888
Guest
On top of what everyone said, she herself stressed that she’s using you. Love is not mutual usage but is nurturing and soothing. You may love her but from what you say, discernment or not, she is not loving you.
Chances are she feels comfortable flirting with you because you are in discernment and she thinks it’s your problem not hers to keep things proper.
If you got all priestly with her she would still probably stay because she feels safe.
After this you can never be just friends with her anymore. It is as it is. No need to blame.
No matter what your call may be please remember that God will always be your true friend and will never let you down. Respect His commandments. Love Him back. He can fill your heart with joy that will eventually wash away the sorrow you feel of letting go to her.
If you want to truly help her, ease the departure for her.
Chances are she feels comfortable flirting with you because you are in discernment and she thinks it’s your problem not hers to keep things proper.
If you got all priestly with her she would still probably stay because she feels safe.
After this you can never be just friends with her anymore. It is as it is. No need to blame.
No matter what your call may be please remember that God will always be your true friend and will never let you down. Respect His commandments. Love Him back. He can fill your heart with joy that will eventually wash away the sorrow you feel of letting go to her.
If you want to truly help her, ease the departure for her.
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tafan2
Guest
If she was not married, then the situation might be different. But she is, so you cannot in anyway pursue a relationship with her.
My gut feeling is it is not a coincidence that you have entered a seminary setting and now she is expressing a desire for a more intimate relationship. A friend of mine who is a priest says it happened to him in the seminary and it is not uncommon. It’s not necessarily a conscious decision “oh, let me see if I can get a seminarians to fall for me”, but it is something that somehow makes you suddenly more attractive to certain women.
My gut feeling is it is not a coincidence that you have entered a seminary setting and now she is expressing a desire for a more intimate relationship. A friend of mine who is a priest says it happened to him in the seminary and it is not uncommon. It’s not necessarily a conscious decision “oh, let me see if I can get a seminarians to fall for me”, but it is something that somehow makes you suddenly more attractive to certain women.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Sadly, this is true. Have seen it in action at parishes and among some girls in my Catholic girls’ high school.
Many women have some kind of conscious or subconscious “Thorn Birds”-type fantasy about being so desirable that they could attract a priest or a seminarian away from his vows or potential vows. They see such a man as a challenge on some level, or they’re excited by all the drama of the questionable/ forbidden attraction. That is part of why the book was so popular.
Many women also will see a priest or a would-be priest as some sort of “safe” man to emote to, because he’s out of the category of relationship partners, or because the existing men in their life (strict father, problematic husband or partner) will permit the woman to talk to/ be with a priest or a would-be priest whereas they’d get upset if it was just some ordinary guy.
Or women see the priest or would-be priest as being kinder or more understanding than the average guy because he’s supposed to be holy and like Jesus, and because many priests and seminarians are indeed caring and empathetic by nature and when they encounter some woman who is sad or crying or saying she’s having a bad time, their impulse is to be kind and help.
Unfortunately, priests and seminarians being human, things often escalate out of the safety zone.
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tafan2
Guest
I suspect you summarized the various scenarios quite well. The description in the OP certainly sounds like it fits the second or third paragraph. Speaking from a guy’s point if view, I know that almost all men are liable to become infatuated with a woman who is suddenly treating them like an emotional rock to lean on. Hence the seminarians who suddenly “falls in love”, which is exactly what my friend says happened to him.
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PetraG
Guest
He needs to understand he is not in an unusual situation. This happens to married friends quite frequently, unfortunately. This is amplified by their feeling that they have similar difficult pasts that few people can understand as they do. The desire to “help” and the acceptance of feelings at face value can easily overwhelm what is “common sense” to people who are a step or two farther away.
Emotions are extremely valuable, but we need to be able to look at them with some emotional distance, too. A priest needs to know this…oh, especially a priest, a confessor. This is the kind of experience that builds mercy and wisdom. Getting through it well requires getting merciful and wise help, though. (We do not count, lol…I meant a priest who is helping him in vocational discernment!)
Emotions are extremely valuable, but we need to be able to look at them with some emotional distance, too. A priest needs to know this…oh, especially a priest, a confessor. This is the kind of experience that builds mercy and wisdom. Getting through it well requires getting merciful and wise help, though. (We do not count, lol…I meant a priest who is helping him in vocational discernment!)
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I think that’s true of men who are naturally empathetic or respond well to “needy” women. A lot of men fall in that category (they want to be needed, they want to help others) and certain jobs like priest would attract empathetic men. The men who find needy, emotional women to be a hassle, or manipulative, or just plain weird, would self-select out of that category.
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tafan2
Guest
You are correct, not almost all men, we can be quite self centered. But almost all men who would be discerning the priesthood.
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