In my opinion, "Mary Mother of God", is too general, and misleading as a teaching

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Are you telling that John is actually Mary’s son because Jesus said that and because Jesus never said ‘mom’ (except on cross but we do not know is she Mother of God) to Mary He isn’t her Son… -because it isn’t in Scripture?

And if Woman gives birth to God how do we call her? Mother of God, of course.

No it is not logical at all what you are saying, and yes I do think your posts are trolling.
 
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francisca.chapter3 said:
Yes.

But at the cross, Jesus made her the mother of John.
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Because she was going to be without anyone to take care of her in a time where women were wholly dependent on their husbands and sons. Christ did the thing any good man, let alone any devout Jewish man, would do and entrusted her care to John.
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
So, if I am wrong, I hope that somebody can tell me and show me why I am wrong.
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The topic was settled almost 1,600 years ago at the Council of Ephesus, an Ecumenical Council that is considered infallible.

The Council Fathers determined that the Greek title Theotokos (which translated into Latin is Mater Dei and in English as Mother of God) was an orthodox title fully consistent with the Scriptures.

Most of the arguments against the title that you raised were also raised at the Council and were determined to be heretical.
 
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It was Jesus dying wish to make her the mother of The Apostle whom He Loves

If you believe Jesus is God, then His wish is God’s command too
 
Honestly… Satan also says that Jesus is God.
So where are we different?

That statement doesn’t stand as some argument on this topic.
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
It was Jesus dying wish to make her the mother of The Apostle whom He Loves

If you believe Jesus is God, then His wish is God’s command too
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That doesn’t suddenly mean Mary did not physically give birth to Christ, didn’t present Him at the Temple as mandated by Jewish law, didn’t raise Him from infancy to manhood, and didn’t watch her Son die at the cross. My mother gave birth to two children. My mom didn’t stop being my mom anymore because she has a second child. Why should Jesus longer be her son because John was told to care for Mary like a son would for his widowed mother?
 
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Bithynian said:
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francisca.chapter3:
So, if I am wrong, I hope that somebody can tell me and show me why I am wrong.
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The topic was settled almost 1,600 years ago at the Council of Ephesus, an Ecumenical Council that is considered infallible.

The Council Fathers determined that the Greek title Theotokos (which translated into Latin is Mater Dei and in English as Mother of God) was an orthodox title fully consistent with the Scriptures.

Most of the arguments against the title that you raised were also raised at the Council and were determined to be heretical.
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I am not worrying what a council of humans say.

I am worrying what God say.
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
I am not worrying what a council of humans say.

I am worrying what God say.
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Tell me one part of authoritative divine revelation that came to you without the Church.

This is a nice treatment of the question:


Excerpt:
In short calling Mary the Mother of God has everything to do with understanding Jesus properly, and even less to do with Mary. Regarding this para 495 of the Catechism states, “Called in the Gospels ‘the mother of Jesus, Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as “the mother of my Lord”. In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father’s eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly “Mother of God” ( Theotokos )”.
 
If Jesus is God, and Mary gave birth to Jesus, then she gave birth to Jesus who is God, and therefore gave birth to God, and is therefore Mother of God. None of this says that Mary preceded Him except as a mother of any child precedes their child in physical existence. Mary is not divine and is not responsible for His divinity, but gave Him a human nature, as any other mother does for her child.
 
Elizabeth said, “who am I, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

The Greek title Theotokos (literally, God-bearer), typically translated into English as “Mother of God,” is both Scriptural, and theologically sound.

An early church heresy known as Nestorianism attacked this notion, and was put down and corrected by an Ecumenical Council in 431 (Ephesus).

If Mary is the Mother of the Lord (Jesus Christ), she is obviously the Mother of God, because Jesus is both fully human and fully divine (100% and 100%), not 50% divine and 50% human. She is not mother of only his humanity, because he is not a divided person. She is mother of his wholeness, divinity and humanity combined.

Higher in honor than the Cherubim, incomparably more glorious than the Seraphim,
Deacon Christopher
 
At least we as humans humble enough to know that our human history is full of idolatry. It is suggested by the epistle of John to keep discerning going on.

And not all from old times better than now. The Holy Spirit is still teaching us now, today. The first will be the last. And the last, first. And all that can be shaken will be shaken.

My phone batt is low now. I really hope I can continue latter.
 
To reject Mary as Mother of God is only quantitatively different from rejecting my mother as my mother.

When a person is conceived, they are both a physical and spiritual being. Are our mothers only the mothers of our physical being? Ultimately, it is God who provides both the physical and spiritual matter which comes together to form a new person, so isn’t my mother as much the mother of my physical self as she is the soul? The difference here is that my mother is the mother of a Son of Man only. The Blessed Mother was mother of both Son of Man and Son of God.
 
PetraG said:
Tell me one part of authoritative divine revelation that came to you without the Church.
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I am telling you the authoritative word of Jesus:
  1. what is born of flesh is flesh, what is born of spirit is spirit
  2. “Woman, your son (John)” was Jesus command to Mary
  3. Jesus also say, “whoever believe in Me is my mother, my brother, my sister”
 
Thom18 said:
To reject Mary as Mother of God is only quantitatively different from rejecting my mother as my mother.

When a person is conceived, they are both a physical and spiritual being. Are our mothers only the mothers of our physical being? Ultimately, it is God who provides both the physical and spiritual matter which comes together to form a new person, so isn’t my mother as much the mother of my physical self as she is the soul? The difference here is that my mother is the mother of a Son of Man only. The Blessed Mother was mother of both Son of Man and Son of God.
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A child was born of non-christan mother. When he/she convert to christanity, her mother of different belief is not his/ her spiritual mother
 
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francisca.chapter3 said:
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Thom18:
To reject Mary as Mother of God is only quantitatively different from rejecting my mother as my mother.

When a person is conceived, they are both a physical and spiritual being. Are our mothers only the mothers of our physical being? Ultimately, it is God who provides both the physical and spiritual matter which comes together to form a new person, so isn’t my mother as much the mother of my physical self as she is the soul? The difference here is that my mother is the mother of a Son of Man only. The Blessed Mother was mother of both Son of Man and Son of God.
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A child was born by a mother of different belief. When he/she convert to christanity, her mother of different belief is not his/ her spiritual mother
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“Spiritual mother” is not the same as “mother of the soul as much as the body”. A “spiritual mother” is a female who helps to guide you through the faith. For example, Saint Josephine Bakhita is my “spiritual mother” (but this can also be someone still living). What you’re speaking of is a different concept.
 
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Cherry picking quotes (taking them without context and presenting them to bolster your personal opinion) is forbidden. St. Peter tells us that above all, no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.

It seems that, sadly, this is exactly what you are attempting to do.

You are separating Scripture from Tradition and from authority. Scripture cannot interpret itself. But it cannot be ‘personally interpreted’ either, because of the possibility that the person would make (as you do) a wrong judgment.

So Scripture tells us that Jesus instituted an authority (The Church) to which he gave the keys to bind and loose.

The Church used that authority to interpret Scripture, not as a personal interpretation but through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Countless theologians and saintly people have studied this and come to say, “Yes, the Church has interpreted correctly”.

Sadly you get the “I”m my own pope” crowd who decide based on a little ‘personal interpretation using their own ‘ideas’ and without anything other than checking some cherry picked quotes that THEY know better than a Divine Institution and countless millions of holy people, because in AD 2020 they were suddenly gifted with infallibility that, SURPRISE SURPRISE, found something Christians have taught for nearly 2000 years to be ‘wrong’ according to their brilliant, never before clearly stated and logical ‘determination’.
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
I am telling you the authoritative word of Jesus:
  1. what is born of flesh is flesh, what is born of spirit is spirit
  2. “Woman, your son (John)” was Jesus command to Mary
  3. Jesus also say, “whoever believe in Me is my mother, my brother, my sister”
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None of which rejects the fact that Mary gave birth to Christ and so is the Mother of God.
 
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