In my opinion, "Mary Mother of God", is too general, and misleading as a teaching

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May I ask what is too general, misleading, or idolatrous about calling Mary the Mother of God?

This debate happened centuries ago. In AD 431, at the Council of Ephesus, the Church declared that calling Mary the “Theotokos” (bearer of God/Mother of God) is fitting. One side argued that while Mary is Mother of Jesus, she could not be called Mother of God. This was the side of the Nestorius, the side that eventually lost the debate.

I think one important aspect of Christianity is admitting that we do not know everything. Sometimes things do not make sense to us. We might just have to take certain things as matters of faith. The Church has already decided on this topic. We can try and argue that the Church fell into idolatry but Jesus promised that this fall would not happen, saying the gates of hell will not prevail. It is true that Israel had fallen into idolatry, and while the Church is the New Israel, unlike Israel, the Church contains the fullness of truth, fully revealed in Christ Jesus. Jesus is the difference here.

On a more rational note, I think that Mother of God is a good title for Mary. It is not so much about Mary per say, but about Jesus’ divinity. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. That shouldn’t be controversial. What may be more controversial is our faith that Jesus is fully God. By denying Mary the title of Mother of God, we are denying Jesus His divinity. The problem that you might identify is when we separate Jesus from Mary. Mary cannot be the Mother of God without Jesus. We must think of Jesus first and foremost. But Jesus will lead us to His Mother. If we truly believe that Jesus is God, we should re-affirm that belief in the Incarnation, that God was born of a woman. The woman that was a mother to God is Mary.
 
Fauken said:
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francisca.chapter3:
Jesus is fully human too, and his mother is Mary
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Yes, and He got that humanity from Mary.
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Does this makes Mary the mother of Jesus’ divinity? No? But that exactly what being “mother of God” suggest: that Mary gave Jesus His Divinity.
 
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Mountie said:
I think one important aspect of Christianity is admitting that we do not know everything.
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Agreed.

Mountie, thank you for pointing out already that this debate has already come up and been resolved by the Church.

OP, it seems you have a problem in that you’ve decided to interpret the Bible in your own personal way, not in the way the Church does it. You go on and on about how much Catholic school you attended and how you go to Mass, but you seem to have missed the lesson on how Catholics don’t go around interpreting the Bible themselves, and how Catholics need to be obedient and accept the teachings of the Magisterium.

You also seem to completely lack any humility or any sense that you’re going about this wrong. You’re like, “Here’s what I think, prove me wrong” rather than accepting that maybe the Church, which dealt with this centuries ago already, knows better than you, and that your idea is not a new one.
This is also the second thread where you’ve posted about this.

I would hope you would thoughtfully consider the substance of Mountie’s reply and the other substantive replies you are making in this thread. As it is, it seems like you just want to argue that you are correct, but you’re not, and it’s not really a discussion point. We cannot convince some Catholic who has decided they know better than the Church on an issue that the Church laid to rest 1000+ yers ago and you apparently never even bothered to consider that fact.
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
Does this makes Mary the mother of Jesus’ divinity? No? But that exactly what being “mother of God” suggest: that Mary gave Jesus His Divinity.
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No it does not. The Anathemas I listed state exactly why Mary is considered the Mother of God:
“1. If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh, let him be anathema.”
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I’ve no doubt this person is trolling…when other posters have tried to explain the meaning of “Mother of God” she just keeps throwing up more arguments…precisely the same arguments that Protestants use…so yes…a troll…she’s been told why Catholics call Mary the Mother of God…but keeps denying it…just don’t answer anymore.
 
I have some questions for you
  1. Define idolatry
  2. Was Mary a believer
  3. How do you know it is the authoritative of Jesus?
  4. What do you think it means when is says I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
  5. When your opinion conflicts with the teaching how do you believe your and not the Church which Jesus established and said that the gates of hell would not prevail?
 
Just go back to those principles Jesus told us.
Or should I ignore Jesus words and follow what humans say?
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
Just go back to those principles Jesus told us.
Or should I ignore Jesus words and follow what humans say?
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You seem to have a habit of changing what is being discussed when the discussion isn’t going your way.

What you are saying are Jesus’ principles are nor His principles. They’re yours. And you don’t get to decide what “Mother of God” means. If you have a problem with the title, then you should address it for what it is, and not what you think it is.
 
Or should I ignore Jesus words and follow what humans say?
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I mean my comment in the most respectful way…by denying Mary the title of Mother of God, you are ignoring Jesus’ words and following what humans say. And not only that, but you are ignoring the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

As I have stated, the Council of Ephesus has already decided this issue, infallibly. The Holy Spirit guides the Church through ecumenical councils. By rejecting the Council of Ephesus, you are rejecting God the Holy Spirit. The same Spirit that is the Love between the Father and the Son. By relying on your own interpretation, even if you are not following any Protestant preachers, you are following a human: yourself. Part of the problem is relying on your own human wisdom as opposed to the wisdom of God as spoken through Tradition. Jesus has not left us. He gave us the Holy Spirit as our guide. He is still present on the altar and in the tabernacles.

Trusting God is tough. Maybe you can pray about your questions and read what the Church Fathers had to say about this issue. The more you explore the history of our faith, the more it may make sense to you.
 
David_Catholic said:
Then I’m sorry, but you’re not Catholic. Ecumenical Councils have the same authority as scripture. The Holy Spirit protects them from teaching error. The Church is indeffectible. If you don’t believe these things, you are a Protestant.
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It brings up the troubling conclusion that if the Council which denied Nestorianism is just a bunch of people stating their fallible opinion, then the councils saying Jesus was truly God, that He was fully God and fully human and both don’t mix, that He wasn’t a demigod, and what makes up the canon of Scripture are all just opinions.
 
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francisca.chapter3 said:
… And should not be used in any prayer, because it is idolatrous. …
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Others thought like you, in fact an ecumenical council was held to resolve it, the seventh, the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 A.D. As to the Mother of God title (Theotokos) The Council of Ephesus met in 431A.D. and affirmed Mary was the “Mother of God”.
 
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francisca.chapter3 said:
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Fauken:
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francisca.chapter3:
Jesus is fully human too, and his mother is Mary
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Yes, and He got that humanity from Mary.
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Does this makes Mary the mother of Jesus’ divinity? No? But that exactly what being “mother of God” suggest: that Mary gave Jesus His Divinity.
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No! That is not the definition of Mother. Mary is not the mother of Jesus divine nature or of Jesus’ human nature. A Mother is one who carries a child in her womb and gives birth to him. A Mother gives birth to a Person, not a nature. Mary is the Mother of Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity.

Jesus is not a human Person. Jesus is a divine Person, but with two natures. Because Mary gave birth to a divine Person, she is rightfully called Mother of God. The word “mother” does not cover passing on a nature. The very definition of a mother is one who gestates and gives birth.

Have you never studied the Hypostatic Union?
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
Just go back to those principles Jesus told us.
Or should I ignore Jesus words and follow what humans say?
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No one is ignoring Jesus’ words. It’s just that Jesus’ words are not saying what you claim they say.

You are misrepresenting the words of Scripture to suit your own agenda.
 
Which symbolizes her motherhood extended to all mankind.
She is our Mother in the order of grace
 
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francisca.chapter3 said:
Just because she bear Jesus for nine months, not the same as being “the mother of God”
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She wasn’t a mere physical surrogate, so not if that is what you mean.
While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.” He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”
Mary was chosen to have a place of full union with God and deliberate cooperation with God.
 
Inbonum said:
I am sorry but your post seems like trolling…
Speak to priest if you truly want truth.
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No need for the ad hominem. The OP has been posting here for a while. Inconvenient and difficult topics do not a troll make. If you do not first understand here point, there can be no reasoned discussion or response.

It is a shame I can not get clarification on whether the OP believed that Jesus was divine from the moment of conception, or if she just believes the term is not prudent. This had the makings of a rather interesting topic, on in which understanding could have been increased.
 
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francisca.chapter3 said:
Please tell me that you disagree that the bible write what Jesus told Nicodemus what is born of flesh is flesh, what is born of spirit is spirit
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I agree that is what Jesus told Nicodemus, Nicodemus did not understand Jesus words either,

We are born of flesh thru Adam, We are born again by water and Spirit thru Christ.

We are not in Adam (flesh) but in Christ (spirit) when we are Baptized.
 
Explain me why is my post on this topic argument ad hominem.
I didn’t attack OP based on any posts in past, nor did I concluded that OP is troll, I wrote that post sounds like trolling which really sounds to me because of style of writing.

I have seen many Protestant posts here on CAF about Mary and questioning Mary as Mother of God and many of those posts didn’t sound like trolling.
 
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