In order to love, I think it absolutely necessary to believe in God

[RainbowNight]

Hello RainbowNight,

Animals can do it too.

When I say pure and absolute love, I mean love itself. Love is a being, it is a tri-une being we call the Trinity. The Trinity was revealed to us by God himself - human beings could not come to recognize it on their own. The answer to your question as I understand it is, no.Selfless love is not pure and absolute love. It is only, I would say, an aspect. Language, I have to say, verbalizing all this is difficult because language cannot really express it. I am struggling here. Consider, that God said: I am who I am. I studied linguistics for a year and God never come into the discussions but, when I started dedicating myself to learning about my faith; I could appreciate even more God’s response to Moses who asked him who should I say sent me. God responded: tell them that I am, sent you. You see, God is God and we are part of his creation, he created us out of love. God can not be really described by reference to created things, linguistically speaking his answer is perfect. To say, that it is difficult to take something from creation to describe the uncreated. It’s like the sunlight, (I’ll give this analogy a shot anyway), the sunlight hits the ocean top and makes it look like it is covered with diamonds or filters through the leaves of an oak tree or comes through my window and lands on my carpet. Can I say this is the sun? It’s a weak analogy…

Is God selfless love? No. If you mean if that is all that there is to it. It is an aspect of love but it does not describe it fully. When you experience absolute, pure and perfect love you cannot even identify what it is at first - it is out of this world. This love which is God, is powerful beyond human comprehension, imagen taking a tiny drop out of an infinite ocean and imagine that being the capacity of a human being to experience God in the human body.

Hello Abba…

I think we love as much as animals, but we are putting extra explanations to our love and conditions.

What we finite being come to see, know, and experience of Love is limited. A man and a woman for instance could share a beautiful love and within the context of their love could have the best they can have because it is fortified and made beautiful by virtues and God. If you have knowledge of what you have and it’s origin - the greater you will understand what you are experiencing and the more you will appreciate it. If you understand love and the union and commitment of a man and a woman with and through the love of God, it is better and more beautiful than the same love with ignorance.

Love is just love, there is no ‘ignorant love’ or ‘union love’, where did you come with these definitions? I think it’s superior to believe that a person who have God as a background is ready to love more than a person who doesn’t have it.

We cannot, for instance, compare a man with a dog, Human beings were created in the image of God, and human dignity is respected by God himself - the creator of the universe. A dog can be altruistic and a human can be altruistic but the value is not the same. Animals function in the main by instinct and do not have free will and rationality and were not made in the image of God.

I wish humans could ‘animalize’ themselves, maybe they’ll know in this case what an unconditional love means.

We can even see a difference in altruism within human beings. A person could risk his life to save his son whom he loves, but, would he risk his life to save a stranger? If someone,selflessly risks his life for a stranger of two who he can see and touch etc…, would he do it for the general good of humanity like Socrates and Doctor Martin Luther King Junior did? Our Lord Jesus, being divine suffered and died for us to open the way to salvation. Jesus and Socrates are not comparable, nor is Socrates with the other altruists mentioned neither are those comparable to animals.

Well, I hope what I have written helps and does not confuse you,

Peace,

Abba

I think perception is what differs us from animals, it doesn’t mean that we are better than them, we have similarities more than we have differences and we as much as them have instincts. You may bring the concept of free will, or that we are made on the image of God, and we are the center of everything. while technically we are a specie among many.
Maybe those who died for others are not using their ‘free will’ but their perception on things, specially if they were important leaders in their times and care so much about their reputation.

Peace

 

[fhansen]

In order to love, I think it absolutely necessary to believe in God.
Your thoughts…

In order to love as God created man to love, we need God-we cannot love this way on our own-and this sums up the New Covenant promises, that God will write His laws on mans heart and in his mind, the laws that can only be fulfilled as man comes to love, by coming to God.

 

[Blood_Angel]

I’m such a fool, didn’t even see this thread!

Well in my experience, where you find an absence of God you will find people that don’t believe in love either.

Also. “To love another person is to see the face of God.” - Victor Hugo

 

[MindOverMatter2]

In order to love, I think it absolutely necessary to believe in God.
Your thoughts…

People can and do love outside of any knowledge of God. But In so far as love has objective meaning, reality, and truth, in order to be certain that you love “perfectly”, it is necessary to believe and conform to Gods will. Of course, if God is love, then you can only love perfectly through God, which requires that your will is ordered to its existential and teleological purpose. in order to know that purpose you must believe in revelation, otherwise you cannot know for certain that your actions full-fill love in respect of that purpose, since you cannot truly know what perfect love is without an objective standard of meaning; what perfect love is objectively, rather than what love is according to popular social opinion.

However there are atheists that have evidently done virtuous acts at the expense of their own existence, which means that while they have rejected some idea of God in their hearts, they have been unable to reject that which is so clearly evident to those who participate in good works; this is the fact that personnel actions are subject to a real sense of right and wrong, not just in respect of survival or social comfort, but rather that the “greater good” has a strong sense of being real and true and that this good is objectively more important than there own lives or social comforts. They are willing to make such sacrifices precisely because they believe or are in some sense aware that it is objectively “true” that their actions are good. Such actions appear rational and morally good to them, for they would never consider their actions as doing something irrational or as having no true meaning or value.

Nobody that’s rational gives up their lives for what they know to be false or deceptive, or nothing more than a socially constructive fantasy. And this is evident in the fact that they reject God as something not worth making sacrifices for.

 

[Abba]

Hello RainbowNight,

I think we love as much as animals, but we are putting extra explanations to our love and conditions.

This is completely wrong. I don’t know that you can learn all that you need to learn on this simple thread in order to come to a better understanding of love and human dignity. I can see that you are open to learning and that is excellent. I don’t know that you will come to understand all this over night. Personally, I suggest, just as a side thing that you read the New Testament. Have you ever read it? Let me know when you do what you think about it.

Love is just love, there is no ‘ignorant love’ or ‘union love’, where did you come with these definitions? I think it’s superior to believe that a person who have God as a background is ready to love more than a person who doesn’t have it.

I am certainly not making this up as I go along. I did not create God, he is not a figment of my imagination. He created me and you. He exists whether I believe in him or not. I am sharing with you what I know as facts. Let me tell you, if I say something contrary to the truth, plenty of people will present themselves and set the record straight. :knight1::knight1::knight1: I have my style of sharing but I am not going to tell you something contrary to a truth that exists outside of me nor contrary to the teachings of Holy Mother Church which is the Church Our Lord Jesus Christ established. This forum is a Catholic forum it’s not a forum to talk about legends.

I find it to be a beautiful thing that Catholics can come to know God and have a personal relationship with him and a rich spiritual life without being theologians. I know a man named, Lucrecio, who is a very humble, poor faithful person. He may have finished first grade, I don’t know. He married at the age of 16 or there about. He is in his eighties now and his wife recently passed away. They did not have any children. He worked all his life in the fields and lives in a wood house. A very poor man. But, when he opens his mouth to talk about God he leaves all the canon law experts and theologians in awe. He has a rich spiritual life as many other poor, ignorant people that I know. I note that they are Catholics because it is an important factor as they attend Mass every Sunday and receive the Sacraments. So, I am not a theologian nor a canon law expert, but they are participants on this forum, and let me tell you; if I goof they will most certainly correct me. However, just because I am not an intellectual does not mean that I do not know what I am talking about and I am certainly not making it up as I go along. Heaven forbid! I have a duty and responsibility with you and I certainly do not want to misguide you.

You see, RainbowNight, God loves the world so much, now I am talking about the creator of heaven and earth and all that is seen and unseen. that fellow, (bare with me Catholics, I know that I am skipping something but it is for simplicity and to communicate) that he became man. Could you imagine that? That incarnation is - Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus, left us what we call Sacraments and through the Sacraments our souls are nourished and in such away that we come closer to him and come to know him more and more. Do you understand what I am saying here? Also, the Bible was inspired by the creator of the universe and when we read it, it too nourishes us. Try it.

I wish humans could ‘animalize’ themselves, maybe they’ll know in this case what an unconditional love means.

I think that you will benefit greatly from CAF.

I think perception is what differs us from animals, it doesn’t mean that we are better than them, we have similarities more than we have differences and we as much as them have instincts. You may bring the concept of free will, or that we are made on the image of God, and we are the center of everything. while technically we are a specie among many. Maybe those who died for others are not using their ‘free will’ but their perception on things, specially if they were important leaders in their times and care so much about their reputation.

I hope some one responds to this comment. I need to go cook for the family now,

with love to all,

Abba

P.s. RainbowNIght, I am reading a nice little book that I think you will benefit greatly if you read it too. The Holy Trinity by Arendzen. Don’t know if you can find a copy. But, wow! Maybe, I’ll tell you a little bit about it later.

 

[fhansen]

I think they’re other aspects involved in our ability to love. I don’t think we can love fully, with abandon, so to speak, unless we possess a certain trust in this universe-a trust that annihilation doesn’t await us at the end of the road. That trust is equivalent to faith in God. And the resurrection offers just that kind of insight and confidence in ones’ future.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Rainbow
**
So your love for an atheist is being conditioned by the idea of that Christ love them, while my idea for loving Christians or others is not based on such a condition.**

Yes. All love flows from Christ, whether you believe in Him or not.

You don’t trust an atheist who avoid doing bad because it doesn’t fit with his morality and because of his fear of sense of guilt after doing what he knows is wrong, while you trust a christian who can do many faults as he can and then repent, where his sense of guilt immediately disappear by the idea of an ultimate forgiving God?

I trust a Christian more than an atheist because I know he has an informed conscience about right and wrong, and that he knows there are consequences to his immortal soul. The atheist has no such brake on his conduct. It may be the only thing that stops him is the fear of getting caught. I’ll lay odds for the Christian every time, so long as I know he is a true Christian and not a phony.

If you walk down a street and see a gang of toughs walking toward you wearing leather jackets and sporting knives and chains, and you see on the opposite sidewalk a group of men carrying bibles, which side of the street do you want to be on? Do you think the first gang is likely to be connected to God? Or the second? Which gang do you think is more loving? Which gang would you trust with your life?

 

[Blood_Angel]

If you walk down a street and see a gang of toughs walking toward you wearing leather jackets and sporting knives and chains, and you see on the opposite sidewalk a group of men carrying bibles

Good analogy.

 

[RainbowNight]

Hello RainbowNight,

This is completely wrong. I don’t know that you can learn all that you need to learn on this simple thread in order to come to a better understanding of love and human dignity. I can see that you are open to learning and that is excellent. I don’t know that you will come to understand all this over night. Personally, I suggest, just as a side thing that you read the New Testament. Have you ever read it? Let me know when you do what you think about it.

Hello
You said it’s completely wrong but you didn’t give any explanation why it’s ‘completely wrong’. You are suggesting something that I already read, and I’m still reading it as much as many other religious books. I was a very religious christian once.

I am certainly not making this up as I go along. I did not create God, he is not a figment of my imagination. He created me and you. He exists whether I believe in him or not. I am sharing with you what I know as facts. Let me tell you, if I say something contrary to the truth, plenty of people will present themselves and set the record straight. :knight1::knight1::knight1: I have my style of sharing but I am not going to tell you something contrary to a truth that exists outside of me nor contrary to the teachings of Holy Mother Church which is the Church Our Lord Jesus Christ established. This forum is a Catholic forum it’s not a forum to talk about legends.

I think in a different way and for many reasons, but I don’t want to turn this thread into a debate on the existence or the non existence of a God.

I find it to be a beautiful thing that Catholics can come to know God and have a personal relationship with him and a rich spiritual life without being theologians. I know a man named, Lucrecio, who is a very humble, poor faithful person. He may have finished first grade, I don’t know. He married at the age of 16 or there about. He is in his eighties now and his wife recently passed away. They did not have any children. He worked all his life in the fields and lives in a wood house. A very poor man. But, when he opens his mouth to talk about God he leaves all the canon law experts and theologians in awe. He has a rich spiritual life as many other poor, ignorant people that I know. I note that they are Catholics because it is an important factor as they attend Mass every Sunday and receive the Sacraments. So, I am not a theologian nor a canon law expert, but they are participants on this forum, and let me tell you; if I goof they will most certainly correct me. However, just because I am not an intellectual does not mean that I do not know what I am talking about and I am certainly not making it up as I go along. Heaven forbid! I have a duty and responsibility with you and I certainly do not want to misguide you.

You are right on this

You see, RainbowNight, God loves the world so much, now I am talking about the creator of heaven and earth and all that is seen and unseen. that fellow, (bare with me Catholics, I know that I am skipping something but it is for simplicity and to communicate) that he became man. Could you imagine that? That incarnation is - Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus, left us what we call Sacraments and through the Sacraments our souls are nourished and in such away that we come closer to him and come to know him more and more. Do you understand what I am saying here? Also, the Bible was inspired by the creator of the universe and when we read it, it too nourishes us. Try it.

Thank you, I know all of this Abba. I’m not ignorant of Catholic theology or Christianity, but what I was talking about is that we can’t measure love, being an atheist does not mean that a person does not know love, or have less love than Christians or other theists.

I think that you will benefit greatly from CAF.

Good, I hope so

I hope some one responds to this comment. I need to go cook for the family now,

with love to all,

Abba

P.s. RainbowNIght, I am reading a nice little book that I think you will benefit greatly if you read it too. The Holy Trinity by Arendzen. Don’t know if you can find a copy. But, wow! Maybe, I’ll tell you a little bit about it later.

Thank you, I’ll check it

Peace

 

[RainbowNight]

I trust a Christian more than an atheist because I know he has an informed conscience about right and wrong, and that he knows there are consequences to his immortal soul. The atheist has no such brake on his conduct.

An atheist also have an informed conscience about right and wrong. Wherever you go you find ‘good’ and ‘bad’ people, it depends on the individual!

It may be the only thing that stops him is the fear of getting caught. I’ll lay odds for the Christian every time, so long as I know he is a true Christian and not a phony.

Not really, I don’t fear getting caught, and it’s the same case for many atheists, just to mention an example, atheists who live in countries where the main crime against the law is denying the existence of God. Those atheist are being jailed and even killed for speaking out their views. And what about those who volunteer and do good works, the government doesn’t oblige anyone to do this

If you walk down a street and see a gang of toughs walking toward you wearing leather jackets and sporting knives and chains, and you see on the opposite sidewalk a group of men carrying bibles, which side of the street do you want to be on? Do you think the first gang is likely to be connected to God? Or the second? Which gang do you think is more loving? Which gang would you trust with your life?

It seems that you really don’t know what the word ‘atheist’ means, you describe every ‘evil’ person as an atheist.
seeing a gang of toughs walking toward you wearing leather jackets and sporting knives and chains are not necessarily atheists, many atheists are pacifists, kind and loving. The gang you describe it could be theists people but not practicing their religion. Even now, in many religions which they think are being more connected to ‘God’ , do ‘evil’ to others and bring God as an excuse, and it happened many times in history and still happening many times now.

and you see on the opposite sidewalk a group of men carrying bibles, I prefer seeing people handling a book rather than a sword, so surely I won’t fear couple of people carrying a book instead of knives, wherever they are atheists or theists!

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[Abba]

Edowitz,

You are welcome to discuss all of your objections and I suggest you start a separate thread with your post. Otherwise, you are spamming. You can’t just go to different threads and post your post as if it was a declaration that can stand on it’s own. You need to be open to discussion.

Thank you,

Abba

 

[Abba]

You are suggesting something that I already read, and I’m still reading it as much as many other religious books. I was a very religious christian once.

Wonderful!

You were a very religious christian once? That’s great! What happened? What church did you belong to? How long ago?

Blessings,

Abba

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Rainbow

It seems that you really don’t know what the word ‘atheist’ means, you describe every ‘evil’ person as an atheist.

No , I don’t. I say an atheist has no obligation to be moral. A Christian does.

seeing a gang of toughs walking toward you wearing leather jackets and sporting knives and chains are not necessarily atheists, many atheists are pacifists, kind and loving. The gang you describe it could be theists people but not practicing their religion. Even now, in many religions which they think are being more connected to ‘God’ , do ‘evil’ to others and bring God as an excuse, and it happened many times in history and still happening many times now.

No, this is not true. People who practice their religion don’t go out of their way to kill others from an evil motive.

But atheists can do this because atheists tend to believe that evil is what they define it as, not how God defines it. So if they do something that’s evil and define it as good, what God is there to stop them?

If you are thinking of Islamic terrorists, that doesn’t wash. You will find many Muslims who condemn Islamic terrorism, just as you will find many Catholic bishops and priests who will condemn the murder of abortionists. Catholicism does not teach terrorism. Stalin and Mao did. So did Hitler. None of them was famous for his love of religion. Why should they be, since their hearts were dedicated to evil, and only the thought of God’s wrath could have dissuaded them?

 

[fhansen]

An atheist also have an informed conscience about right and wrong. Wherever you go you find ‘good’ and ‘bad’ people, it depends on the individual!

Yes, but an atheist has no mandate to be right, no, “Thou Shalt Love”, to put it one way. So they’re morally neutral as far as that goes, because they’re determining for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

 

[RainbowNight]

Wonderful!

You were a very religious christian once? That’s great! What happened? What church did you belong to? How long ago?

Blessings,

Abba

Many atheists were religious once, I was catholic, about almost 6 years, I started to think objectively and for many reasons which has nothing to do with my personal life, I turned into a non believer. If you like I can message you and talk about those reasons but I don’t want to eliminate the main reason for this thread, because I noticed that threads that talk directly about atheism are being closed.

Regards

 

[RainbowNight]

Rainbow

No , I don’t. I say an atheist has no obligation to be moral. A Christian does.

Both have obligation to be moral and no obligation to be moral at the same times, it’s called conscience and self control (morality) and it depends on the person wherever his beliefs are.

No, this is not true. People who practice their religion don’t go out of their way to kill others from an evil motive.

Really? Why don’t you check the records and the history of civilizations, how many people did evil in the name of God and to promote their religion?

But atheists can do this because atheists tend to believe that evil is what they define it as, not how God defines it. So if they do something that’s evil and define it as good, what God is there to stop them?

Isn’t it the case of millions of religious ideologies and doctrines? They have different views on good and evil. You are talking as all theists have same views on good and evil!
To an atheist and many people in general, evil is when you treating others badly and cause harm to them. harming any living creature is evil. Your freedom have limits when it comes to other beings.

If you are thinking of Islamic terrorists, that doesn’t wash. You will find many Muslims who condemn Islamic terrorism, just as you will find many Catholic bishops and priests who will condemn the murder of abortionists. Catholicism does not teach terrorism. Stalin and Mao did. So did Hitler. None of them was famous for his love of religion. Why should they be, since their hearts were dedicated to evil, and only the thought of God’s wrath could have dissuaded them?

I have a deep respect for Muslims who condemn terrorist attacks, and I have many relatives and friends who are Muslims, but condemning something is not an enough reason to dismiss the violence of a religion and the ‘evil’ character of a God in it, which part of ‘kill’ in the Quran, hadith and history of the life of the prophet you don’t understand?

Ah right! people who have a God ( even if he’s an evil one ) are automatically good, but those who do not have this kind of god are automatically bad and you compare them to Stalin, Hitler and Mao?
Supposing those were really atheists ( which I doubt btw ) does it mean that all atheists are like them? I know I’m not…

 

[RainbowNight]

Yes, but an atheist has no mandate to be right, no, “Thou Shalt Love”, to put it one way. So they’re morally neutral as far as that goes, because they’re determining for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

Isn’t it the case of millions of religious ideologies and doctrines? they have different views on good and evil.
Mostly atheists and all people in general follow a simple golden rule, about treating others the same way you want them to treat you. None want to be treated badly (that’s good). Evil is the opposite of it
I don’t need a holy mandate to teach me how to love. I just love, because I think love is the cure for everything.

 

[kildare]

Isn’t it the case of millions of religious ideologies and doctrines? they have different views on good and evil.
Mostly atheists and all people in general follow a simple golden rule, about treating others the same way you want them to treat you. None want to be treated badly (that’s good). Evil is the opposite of it
I don’t need a holy mandate to teach me how to love. I just love, because I think love is the cure for everything.

Maybe some philosophical atheists! As an atheist I certainly didn’t follow a golden rule, unless it was called self-preservation.

If you read Richard Dawkin’s “the Selfish Gene”, you might come across Genetic Kinship theory, where the net benefit to the gene of cooperation, or pacifism or even self-sacrifice means will actually benefit the gene.

Now human beings have completely put the natural selection model into disarray, but it might be better from an atheist point of view to breed more Christians that to breed more atheists, simply because the christian demands much more self-sacrifice, honesty etc than the atheist (obviously no).

 

[fhansen]

Isn’t it the case of millions of religious ideologies and doctrines? they have different views on good and evil.
Mostly atheists and all people in general follow a simple golden rule, about treating others the same way you want them to treat you. None want to be treated badly (that’s good). Evil is the opposite of it
I don’t need a holy mandate to teach me how to love. I just love, because I think love is the cure for everything.

Yes, and a religion that agrees with and affirms my personal assessment that “Thou Shalt Love” is the cure for everything would assert that love is somehow at the foundation of the universe, i.e. that God/nature/the universe agree with me as well. An atheist could just as well believe that “Thou Shalt Revel in Selfishness” represents a sound moral code for life, and, in fact, that rule is one that has, more or less unconsciously, led or influenced the world to a great degree down through history; it’s sort of a tendency from birth and something which can oppose itself to love and something we need to be on guard against, IMO.

Humankind may never have even heard of the golden rule, let alone taken it seriously, if not for some religion way back when proclaiming it as an objectively right way to live.

Of course, there are “Christian” churches that utilize religion to support and affirm the “It’s-All-About-Me” standard as well; the “Prosperity Movement” comes to mind, but they can’t be taken seriously as representing the message of one who is said to have voluntarily experienced an extremely humiliating and painful death as the ultimate act of selfless love for humankind-to prove that God, Himself, agrees with my assessment that love is the cure for everything-apparently “agreed” with it before I even thought of it, in fact.