In order to love, I think it absolutely necessary to believe in God

[Abba]

Learning about the source of love is also important and would likely increase our appreciation for love. However, you have so far only asserted that the source of love is God. I know that you believe this, and that is fine. What I was asking is how do you know? How do you know that God is the source of love? Are you aware that other religions make different claims about the source of love? How do we distinguish whether the source of love is the Christian God, the Hindu god Kamadeva, the Greek god Aphrodite, or even a source that is not a god at all such as our brain chemistry or structure?

Okay, OvrlapnMagstria,

You want to know? You want to know how I know? You want to know how I know that God is Love and that God is the source of Love and he is not as other religions depict him when they do so contrary to the teachings of the Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ which the Catholic Church, that is the Church he established himself? You want to know how I know that the Catholic Church teaches the truth about God, the Creator of heaven and earth and of all that is seen and unseen? You want to know if this is the true church, the true religion. the true faith that will serve you as the vehicle to come to know Truth and God and no illusions nor fancies but the TRUTH of this existences and the Creator? You want to know how I know that many intellectuals were indeed in error who taught contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church? Do you want to know why I with the Grace of the Holy Spirit am willing to die for what I know ? Do you want to know why so many willingly gave up there life for these truths? Do you want to know how an ignorant person like myself who can even be stupid at times can come to know such TRUTHS?

Do you REALLY want to know?

Fine. I am going to tell you once for all. Get on line.

Blessings,

Abba

 

[RainbowNight]

Do you want to see the elephants too?

I think that you do. Some atheists think of themselves and behave as though they ran away from God (some actually did), but most , like yourself and OvrlapnMagstria simply got lost but do not realize it - yet. That whisper that you do not even identify, recognize or even acknowledge is God calling you. That longing in your soul is God calling you. It’s like Saint Augustine said: “Our hearts are restless, O Lord, until they rest in you.” I am comparing the whisper with the sounds of elephants. You are his lost sheep and he is calling you back to him. He is the Good Shepherd. He loves you dearly, RainbowNight and OverlapMagstria. Try to follow the longing, try to follow that call and meet him half way.

Permit me to share a story I heard at Mass this past Sunday. We saw a video from a religious inviting the parishioners to participate on a ‘mission’ basically it sounded to me like a mini retreat for a couple of hours in the evenings up to Wednesday. The religious shared that he often goes to different parishes to speak and give missions (mini- retreats?) and that one day he was being transported from the church to someplace by a chauffeur of the church. In the car, they greeted each other and the missionary asked the chauffeur to tell him a little about himself. The man said that several years ago, when his son Aaron was four years old, his son was diagnosed with leukemia and died a year later. He said that he got angry at God and did not go to church nor prayed for two years. I think it was his mother and brother in-law that one Sunday convinced him to go to church with them and reluctantly - he did. They sat in the front pew and the man just sat there with his arms folded in front of him. He did not kneel nor got up - nothing. He just sat there with his arms folded. Then, he heard a voice call - “James”. In his soul, he understood it was the voice of Our Lord. He looked around the altar in front of him. Then, he heard: “James, it is not Aaron only that you miss. You miss me too.” James told the missionary; he knows me by name. Ever since that day, with a fervent desire, he James dedicated himself to practicing his Catholic faith.

This may be your particular experience, but, there are atheists who start off with knowing God exists and out of anger turn their back and kept going. Kept going so far that they came to believe that God does not exist. Check out this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=545558 Not just from anger have some turn their back on God but also our of selfishness and pride. If this is not your situation and you have come to atheism our of a pure intellectual difficult then fine. I actually started writing a book, it is currently gather dust but… it is entitled:

Hello Abba

It’s not only me or OverlapMagstria, it’s the same situation for many atheists I know and those whom I don’t know but could possibly share same thoughts. This link could help in clearing how atheism is mostly not a choice :atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/a/AtheistsChoose.htm

You gave an example: "The man said that several years ago, when his son Aaron was four years old, his son was diagnosed with leukemia and died a year later. He said that he got angry at God and did not go to church nor prayed for two years."

It’s not the case of an atheist, because he chooses not to follow God and to be angry at him, while he believes in his existence but wants to disobey him, sure this person will come back to God after all because he believes in him, but went thru hard times where he blamed God for what happened
An atheist does not believe in a God, so asking an atheist to confess or repent as you mentioned in your thread is ‘meaningless’, because he doesn’t believe in a God to repent or confess to, make him believe and I can assure to you, he would probably and automatically confess or repent.

I agree with this very much. Thank you.

Thank you

 

[Abba]

Hello RainbowNight,

It’s not only me or OverlapMagstria, it’s the same situation for many atheists I know and those whom I don’t know but could possibly share same thoughts. This link could help in clearing how atheism is mostly not a choice :atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/a/AtheistsChoose.htm

I think one of the first steps an ‘atheist’ can take in his/her search for God is to become independent. OverlapMagstria is different from you and you from him and from every other atheist in the world. Each of you are going through your own individual journey. I think to make progress in that journey it helps to become independent and not be part of a group and allow yourself to be labeled and have your identity be that of the group - I am an atheist. There may be some attraction in holding that label - vanguard whatever, but, for someone that is truthfully and sincerely seeking to learn if a God really does exists I think it is best to go at it alone.

Generally speaking we are born alone and will die alone. But, at the bottom of my suggestion/recommendation is my understanding that you are a child of God and you are unique and you are going through your own individual and personal journey and it may very well be different than what others are going through and you may be in a particular stage of your journey that is different than others. What I see on the road to knowing God is a detour called ‘Atheists United’ and I just want to let you know that that is the wrong way. You can be with a group of ten or three hundred atheist and they will not all come to the realization of the existence of God at the same time, unless of course, Our Lord Jesus touches them and if and when he does it will be at an individual and jpersonal level. It’s like Lourdes, miracles still happen at Lourdes but not in a daily basis. What does happen, as some nun at Lourdes shared with me, almost daily are spiritual experiences. You maybe hundreds of people who perhaps out of curiosity or their jobs (photographers, journalist etc…) end up at Lourdes and have a spiritual experience that opens their heart to knowing that God exists. Even if it is to ten that this happens to, it is still to each individual and in a very personal way. I think it best to maintain your individual identity and address your own individual concerns.

You gave an example: “The man said that several years ago, when his son Aaron was four years old, his son was diagnosed with leukemia and died a year later. He said that he got angry at God and did not go to church nor prayed for two years.” It’s not the case of an atheist, because he chooses not to follow God and to be angry at him, while he believes in his existence but wants to disobey him, sure this person will come back to God after all because he believes in him, but went thru hard times where he blamed God for what happened
An atheist does not believe in a God, so asking an atheist to confess or repent as you mentioned in your thread is ‘meaningless’, because he doesn’t believe in a God to repent or confess to, make him believe and I can assure to you, he would probably and automatically confess or repent.

continue…

 

[Abba]

cont…

Yes, but, I am not saying that atheist consciously choose to not believe in God. I don’t know that the mental process could be so easy. It would be lunacy to be able to do that, don’t you think? The presumed suggestion is that one day a believer decides that he/she will no longer believe in God. I don’t think it works that way and it is to misunderstand what people are saying to think that that is what they are saying. It is a lot more complex and deeper than that, it’s process and this not to all. It is really difficult to come up with one simple cause for atheism or to claim that ALL atheists are X, I think each person is different and each person is at a different stage and situation and different things causes a person to be atheist. There are some common causes but we certainly cannot attribute them to ALL and at that, they are not so simple, because it may for instance start with getting angry at God but anger at God does not translate nor necessarily lead to atheism but it could and it has. There are other things that lead to atheism, lukewarmness, indifference, egoism, pride, materialism, self-love, pure ignorance, etc…each of these causes takes it’s own road and the road is different for each individual that leads to atheism if indeed these things lead an individual to atheism because it does not necessarily do so.

Now, I see you are bunching everyone up and speaking for atheism in general and applying these generalities at the individual level and eliminating possible causes at the individual and personal level because it does not fit with the generalities. * It is the case* that many Catholics because they, for some reason or another, got angry at God took the road to atheism, and it was not necessarily a conscious choice as depicted by you - that’s it, as of today I choose not to believe in God. It starts with anger or rage and comes the distancing which after many turns and curves leads to atheism. I know someone, the person who I was going to mention in that thread where I ask Catholic atheists to consider Confession this Lent (I suggestion I still maintain), who similarly to James from that story got angry at God. His most dear friend and mentor - his godfather, was killed. As a young man that he was at the time, he attended Mass every Sunday with his Godfather and participating in parish activities and lead processions etc… He knew that because of the political situation at the time, his godfather could be killed and he prayed to God to protect his godfather. One day he learned that his godfather had been shot by order of the dictator. He was devastated and as he put it himself it was not simply anger - it was rage. This person came to be an eloquent atheist. I was and still am amazed at his confession to me. I have known him for tens and tens of years and I never thought that he would die asking Jesus to take him etc…He was more of an atheist than Hitchens, he could have taught Hitchens a thing or two. Never, never, did I think that I would see what I have seen. But, when you are laying on a bed month in and month out you are forced to confront yourself. He told me that that is why he had been an atheist and a real and true one but, that I had brought him back to Our Lord Jesus. He is still alive and receives the sacraments as he waits for Our Lord Jesus to come for him so that he can leave with Jesus of Nazareth.

Yes, I think it is a good idea for atheist Catholics to consider Confession this Lent season. It may take courage to go to that inside part of us and confront anything that we may have to and perhaps find that maybe I have a thing or two to confess. I think that it will help the individual overcome atheism and at that not alone but Our Lord Jesus will give Graces during the Sacrament that will help the person to know him.

By the way, I do not think that it is impossible for everyone to come to know God. I think everyone can come to know that God exist. If I was stuck in an island with ten non-believers I would never loose hope that they would all come to know that God exists and come to know Our Lord Jesus. If Catholics took that attitude or believed that there are people that are completely incapable of coming to know God we would be doing them a disservice. Our Lord Jesus commanded us to evangelize and he did not eliminate anyone nor group. We also pray for people and that is wonderful and beneficial.

But, the atheist that come to know God do not do it necessarily on there own - because, you see, God really does exists and he has a part to play in this too. Actually, his role is quite big in all this.

Allow me a little quote from a book I am currently reading:

"In Christian lands where men can listen to God’s revelation and understand, where men can speak to God in prayer, though there may be many a fall yet there is hope of rising after stumbling, of mending after illness; but where men are deaf and dumb, deaf to God’s voice and dumb so as never to pray to the God that made them, there indeed the depth of misery is great, so great that it would bring a groan of pity to the lips of God-Incarnate and need, as it were, the blessed fingers of Christ in their ears and on their tongue to make them listen and speak. “Yet the grace of God is greater than any human wretchedness, and where there is humility there is a door open for faith.”

Peace,

Abba

 

[Abba]

Please allow me to apologize for the errors (typos, typical bi-lingual errors, etc…) on my previous posts. I thought I could take a few moments to myself and it did not work. My name was called by someone I take care of every time I typed a sentence. It can be* very* disturbing. I pasted here and there and could not edit. I hope my points come across.

---

Btw, OverlapMagstria, have you ever considered that if the Christians are correct and God does exist and they are truly speaking of Him; why is it that he almost hides from us all? Why doesn’t he just reveal himself so that everyone knows that he exists? Could it be that in his Wisdom he considers that it is best this way for us? Why would that be? Could it be that he wants us to find him in certain ways and this for our own good? If this is so, have you ever wondered how that road looks like and why?

May God bless you and may Our Blessed Mother Mary protect you and guide you to her son.

Abba

p.s. for those of you that pray, please pray for me. I can use some prayers. It’s been a long time since I slept eight hours. It’s difficult to function with continuous lack of sleep and I am falling behind with the demands of life. Thank you for your prayers.

 

[OvrlapnMagstria]

Btw, OverlapMagstria, have you ever considered that if the Christians are correct and God does exist and they are truly speaking of Him; why is it that he almost hides from us all? Why doesn’t he just reveal himself so that everyone knows that he exists? Could it be that in his Wisdom he considers that it is best this way for us? Why would that be? Could it be that he wants us to find him in certain ways and this for our own good? If this is so, have you ever wondered how that road looks like and why?

That is a very big question that seems to have no answer. But remember: a hidden god and a non-existent god look identical.

You said earlier that you would reveal how you know. I await your reply.
Charlemagne II:

Kamadeva, like Aphrodite, is only one of many lesser gods. I have never been attracted to a religion that has so many gods as populated Greece and India.

I find it strange that you dismiss something simply out of preference. I understand that Jesus is a more attractive option to you, but just cause something is more comfortable doesn’t make it true.