In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

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Evolution is a conspiracy used by scientists who support the gay agenda that is why it started in England, which history shows has been infected by the homosexual conspiracy since at least William I. They want to destroy Good so they can engage on their perversions without guilt.

Read Christopher Hitchens autobiography where admits to engaging in homosexual acts (not sex, sex is only between a man and a woman) with conservative politicians and you know why he is an atheist and evolution supporter.
 
How do people who don’t believe in evolution explain things like the vestigial bones in a dolphin’s or other cetacean’s skeleton that indicate their ancestors once had hind limbs? Do they think God put those things there to play a trick on humans?
First off God is a deceiver, but on the other hand human reasoning can be flawed.

Vestigial bones and organs - much debunked. All previously thought vestigials on humans all have a current use.
 
Catholicism doesn’t mean Biblical inerrancy, and it is permitted for a Catholic to acknowledge the contributions of evolutionary theory to scientific understanding.
Uh yes. According to Catholic doctrine, the Bible is inerrant.
 
First off God is a deceiver, but on the other hand human reasoning can be flawed.

Vestigial bones and organs - much debunked. All previously thought vestigials on humans all have a current use.
So you’re saying that cetaceans have always had flippers and no hind limbs? What about the fossil remains of the transitional forms that prove that their ancestors used to live on land?
 
Easy. I don’t.

Not much of a problem, I do not believe evolution explains these either.

Of course, what makes you think these pieces do not have a purpose exactly where and how they are?

Perhaps God is not playing a trick on us, but is instead presenting us with a problem to solve.
According to Wikipedia, cetaceans “are marine mammal descendants of the artiodactyl family Raoellidae, a group of land mammals characterized by an even-toed ungulate skull, slim limbs, and an ear with significant similarities to that of early whales.[10] The terrestrial origins of cetaceans are indicated by their need to breathe air from the surface or the bones of their fins, which resemble the limbs of land mammals, including the vestigial remains of hind legs inherited from the four-legged ancestors.”
 
Hi, Bill,

Welcome to CAF! 🙂

Would you kindly supply a reference on your statement about William I (1028-1087) ? Thanks 🙂

Homosexual acts have been going on a long time before William left France and took over England - and, yes, from earliest times both English and French monarchs have been accused of having engaged in homosexual acts. But, any attempt to connect this with a conspiracy to promote evolution will need significant substantiation. All of England and Europe during the time William was in what we call the Dark Ages (5th-10th Centuries) so I would be interested in knowing about any theory of evolution being developed at this time.

And, please, let’s recognize Christopher Hitchens for what he is - and that would be simply a shamelessly focused ego-maniac who’s biggest accomplishements have been the continued ability to get his name in the newspapers. Him claiming homosexual activities may or may not be accurate - but, he will get another blurb in the newspapers either way.

God bless
Evolution is a conspiracy used by scientists who support the gay agenda that is why it started in England, which history shows has been infected by the homosexual conspiracy since at least William I. They want to destroy Good so they can engage on their perversions without guilt.

Read Christopher Hitchens autobiography where admits to engaging in homosexual acts (not sex, sex is only between a man and a woman) with conservative politicians and you know why he is an atheist and evolution supporter.
 
Hi, Tomarin,

This is just a personal observation - and any association with the demands of actual science is purely luck… 😃 But, I have always been amazed at the amazing similarity of the human cell and the plant cell. (Actually, any cell from any living organism will do for this example.)

Make no mistake, there are real differences and human cells are much more complex and none of them engage in photosynthesis…😉 but, still… maybe we could be talking about the differences between a 3-dimensional sphere and a 2-dimensional circle - both are round. And, given all the possible shapes out there - and all living organisms share this trait - I find it an interesting association. I see a much closer association between the vestigial bones you mentioned and cell similarities.

I am not claiming we ‘evolved from trees’…or, even bushes - but, rather, here we have two different life forms that seem (at least to me) that they share a common Creator. 🙂

God bless
How do people who don’t believe in evolution explain things like the vestigial bones in a dolphin’s or other cetacean’s skeleton that indicate their ancestors once had hind limbs? Do they think God put those things there to play a trick on humans?
 
It does not say how old human are. 🙂
It also doesn’t say Jesus is God in the flesh. By going back into the bible many have deduced that that is the age of th human race. Jews were very acccurate. Do you have evidence it isn’t being that the bible is God-breathed? Do some research.
 
Sorry you didn’t realize I quoted from the bible. On day 6 when the Lord breathed life into Adam was he still a one celled organism. You should read information from the Kolbe Science center. Your answer is based on feelings. What else will you waterdown. You sound like a Jehovah Witness saying Jesus only appeared to die on the cross.He wasn’t in the flesh. Maybe you can tell me when Jesus gave life to man. Maybe you can tell me when the ape became a man was he alive? So the ape became a dead man and then the dead man Adam received life from the breath of God. Tell me how long did God have to wait for the ape to beome a man? I’m sure , since you know it all, we will answers soon. Paul told us that scripture is God-breathed.
By the way I worry how much Jesus suffered on the cross. Yom echad in the Torah means day one-not period one. The word of God outweighs the word of man. The clergy needs to stay out of science and stick to salvation. Remember the error of Galileo.
 
Evolution is a conspiracy used by scientists who support the gay agenda that is why it started in England, which history shows has been infected by the homosexual conspiracy since at least William I. They want to destroy Good so they can engage on their perversions without guilt.

Read Christopher Hitchens autobiography where admits to engaging in homosexual acts (not sex, sex is only between a man and a woman) with conservative politicians and you know why he is an atheist and evolution supporter.
Um, wut?
 
It also doesn’t say Jesus is God in the flesh. By going back into the bible many have deduced that that is the age of th human race. Jews were very acccurate. Do you have evidence it isn’t being that the bible is God-breathed? Do some research.
Jesus said He was God. Sorry, I do not have a Bible with me.
 
So you’re saying that cetaceans have always had flippers and no hind limbs? What about the fossil remains of the transitional forms that prove that their ancestors used to live on land?
Which transitional are you referring to? There is no proof. They are all assumptions.

Take a lego set - look at all the things you can make with the same blocks.
 
According to Wikipedia, cetaceans “are marine mammal descendants of the artiodactyl family Raoellidae, a group of land mammals characterized by an even-toed ungulate skull, slim limbs, and an ear with significant similarities to that of early whales.[10] The terrestrial origins of cetaceans are indicated by their need to breathe air from the surface or the bones of their fins, which resemble the limbs of land mammals, including the vestigial remains of hind legs inherited from the four-legged ancestors.”
Wikipedia? :rotfl:

In any case this is story telling. You are ware the tree of life has fallen and is now a bush? How about HGT and jumping genes?
 
Hi, Gcharles,

Actually, it does! :eek:

Let’s start in the beginning - Luke 1:26-35. The angel Gabriel clearly tells Mary that God will take flesh and live within her virginal womb. Catholics call this the Incarnation.

Here is a link that provides other biblical references along with statements from the Early Church Fathers: catholicbasictraining.com/apologetics/coursetexts/6b.htm As I had told you previously, we look at the Bible, Sacred Tradition and the Magersterium (the teaching authority of the Catholic Church)

The Catholic Church also teaches about Christ being True God and true man in the Cathechism. Here is a link: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p1.htm

This is the second time you have quoted St. Paul about the scriptures being ‘God breathed’ (2 Tim 3:16) as if this somehow answered all questions and refuted those who identify error in what you say. Yes, scripture is God breathed and I would recommend you go to Matthew 16 and see how Christ - True God and true man - founded His Church on Peter and gave him the keys and authority to bind and lose. Among other things - this represents teaching authority.

I found your response to Tabycat to lack both charity and accuracy. I also find it curious that you would demand reseach of others when you have yet to provide one link to substantiate your own position. My suggestion would be to simply take your own advice and do your own research and present your ideas, rather than a copy 'n paste approach from some type of Sola Scriptura publication.

My understanding of your latest post is that you are still challenging the Catholic Church’s teaching authority on this matter. Maybe it is time to skip to the chase 😉 - what do you want to prove on this thread?

God bless
It also doesn’t say Jesus is God in the flesh. By going back into the bible many have deduced that that is the age of th human race. Jews were very acccurate. Do you have evidence it isn’t being that the bible is God-breathed? Do some research.
 
Even Richard Dawkins admits there is no empirical evidence to support ‘speciation’ evolution. Dawkins admits ‘speciation’ evolution is based on a postulate meaning you accept something as true without any evidence at all. God said he created all species in their own kind. Paul said the bible is God breathed. I believe in God and if anyone believes in Darwinism THINK!
 
Hi, Gcharles,

It appears to me that you are simply rambling on rather then simply answering the questions I have given you. This is sometimes identified as evasion. If this is your intent, please, continue to ramble - but, note such posts are usually not helpful to a thread that seeks dialogue.

I await your response.

God bless
Even Richard Dawkins admits there is no empirical evidence to support ‘speciation’ evolution. Dawkins admits ‘speciation’ evolution is based on a postulate meaning you accept something as true without any evidence at all. God said he created all species in their own kind. Paul said the bible is God breathed. I believe in God and if anyone believes in Darwinism THINK!
 
Tom, you do know that the scientists at State College had e-mails purloined that showed that they were in the process of devising arguments to mask facts contrary to the global warming theory. This is how science is conducted today. It’s mostly agenda-driven politics. I’d LOVE to see private e-mail exchanges between naturalists. I’ll bet they would show the same shading of results. I mean, look at recent ancestor hoaxes, which were so ridiculous that not even fellow evos could abide them. Yet, they are so desperate to deny God that major magazines treated these "spurious “finds” as important. :rolleyes: Rob
This is just a fabrication of the professional (and criminal) denialist machine. There is absolutely nothing in those 1000s of emails spanning many many years that indicates global warming is a hoax or fabrication. For those who would like the correct story, read Mann’s THE HOCKEY STICK AND THE CLIMATE WARS. One main point is that even if all of that tree-ring data were false (and they are not), anthropogenic global warming rests on other rock-solid science, and is no longer in dispute among practicing climate scientists. Whether we decide to reduce our GHG emissions (and other concomitant pollution) so as to reduce harm to people and God’s creation, that is up to us.

Same with evolution. It’s been well accepted in science many decades, and the evidence is so strong now, that it would be a huge twist to try and deny it.

As an anthropologist who is sensitive to people’s religious beliefs, I used to tell students they didn’t have to believe in evolution, but just learn it for the test. I would also explain that I actually first learned about evolution in Presbyterian Sunday school in the 50s (I think they figured we’d be learning about it in school and wanted to give it religious meaning); and that I’ve never had any trouble believing in God, being a religious person, and accepting evolution, and how it in fact made me all the more full of awe of God.

But then I started thinking about how lying is a sin, and when the science is really in on something, it would be a lie to turn away and not accept the science. So I’ve added onto what I tell students, that as a Christian I’ve come to understand that believing in creationism and/or intelligent design and rejecting evolution is perhaps a sin, and is probably a great insult to God, that we see Him as some David Copperfield magician, far short of His greatness and majesty.

As a person who also teaches mythology, I understand that the ancients were trying to understand the world as best they could, they were doing their science (and theology combined), and it makes sense if we have no knowledge of modern science. I respect their insights within their time periods.

God inspired the Bible, and the writers/tellers of it did the best they could within their knowledge frameworks (maybe God even told them about evolution, but it was just so awesome they just didn’t have the framework to get it right).

But God wrote another Bible directly – creation, from which we can learn. And science is like exigesis. We should in humility respect what the scientists are telling us, even though their “truths” are subject to change and correction with better evidence and theories. God is Truth, and we do well not to turn away from science and knowledge we gain from our God-given abilities.
 
Thank you for the sincere and somewhat measured response, Lynn. I’ve got to tell you, first, that a tiny increase in a trace gas (CO2) is NOT causing global warming or climatic Armageddon. The Vikings lived in Greenland 1000 years ago. It is STILL too cold there to be habitable now. MANY climatologists and meteorologists are skeptical of the rabid Al Gore claims, which he is afraid to debate, BTW.
As far as macro-evolution or speciation goes, there is no evidence that a slice of dead earth turned into single-celled organisms, which in turn, through billions of random mutations, increased in complexity geometrically to the end result we see today. Consciousness, flight, sight, hearing, etc, etc did not slowly evolve, even over billions of years. I do give you credit for insisting that God directed this process that you believe in. BUT, one generation accepts random evolution by a God-directed process, and the next generation scraps God altogether. That’s what I see. 😊 Rob
 
… that as a Christian I’ve come to understand that believing in creationism and/or **intelligent design and rejecting evolution **is perhaps a sin, and is probably a great insult to God, that we see Him as some David Copperfield magician, far short of His greatness and majesty…
I don’t understand your differentiating ID from theistic evolution, could you clarify that?
 
I’m thinking that the real issue might be that many people feel disgust and aversion at the idea of being related to animals – apes, slime, etc. But this is really an awesome and exciting thing in my view…that we have stardust cruizing our veins, that the elements of which we are composed were formed in the belly of stars.

That the entire, huge, and expanding universe came from something extremely tiny we can’t even see it, and that presumably came from nothing (tho science can tell us). That humans & complex organisms came from tiny molecules that started replicating (DNA, RNA). That God came to Elijah in a tiny still voice (not in the big fire and whirlwind). That God came to us as a tiny babe in a manger (a place where animals feed).

Wow!! God is so much greater and grander than our puny minds can comprehend. We could have never imagined or come up with these things, we could only learn about them from God’s great works. RE God we can only sit under the “cloud of unknowing,” getting tiny glimpses of His grandeur and majesty from time to time. As St. John of the Cross said (I badly paraphrase), if we have some conception of God, we’re wrong.

That the frailty, humility of heart, and self-surrender of God come as man gained me eternal salvation. Wow! Who knew?! Who could have ever imagined?

God never fails to wow me and wow me.
 
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