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Rsmith494
Guest
Just a thought. If death did not enter until sin, in the garden, then how did all things change by death and birth over millions of years? Evolution, like Eve’s sin in the garden was to doubt God’s word.
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Hunter24
Guest
Indeed it is, which is why I beleave it. I dont however, beleave that humans are spiritually supirior to other animals however. I don’t beleave humanity was created to be masters of all living things. We are just the most inteligent product of this planets evolution. I beleave God began the process of life in some way or another but sense then it has run it’s course.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Hunter24,
In the area of being “spiritually superior” where does having an immortal soul come in?
In the area of ‘humanity being masters of all living things’ - do you think you have the right to grow wheat and then grind it into flour to make bread to eat? Are we not masters of wheat? What about moving from a plant to an animal - any animal will do, how about a cow that yesterday was out in the field eating grass and today part of it appears as a hamburger on our plate to eat?
How can humans survive if we are not superior to other life forms - and actuall eat them?
This is an interesting idea about God - sort of reminds me of Diests like Thomas Jefferson. Is this is like picturing God as the Master Clock-Maker. He made all the parts for scratch and then assembeled them and then wound up the clock … and walked away? This takes away the randomness issue - but, certainly has no room for Christ. Is this what you want?
God bless
In the area of being “spiritually superior” where does having an immortal soul come in?
In the area of ‘humanity being masters of all living things’ - do you think you have the right to grow wheat and then grind it into flour to make bread to eat? Are we not masters of wheat? What about moving from a plant to an animal - any animal will do, how about a cow that yesterday was out in the field eating grass and today part of it appears as a hamburger on our plate to eat?
How can humans survive if we are not superior to other life forms - and actuall eat them?
This is an interesting idea about God - sort of reminds me of Diests like Thomas Jefferson. Is this is like picturing God as the Master Clock-Maker. He made all the parts for scratch and then assembeled them and then wound up the clock … and walked away? This takes away the randomness issue - but, certainly has no room for Christ. Is this what you want?
God bless
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Rsmith494,
Welcome to CAF!
Let me try to answer your question. I think the basis for my response is just how literal do you want to be? Once that is established - let me tell you the way I see it.
God created everything out of nothing. This is a matter of Catholic Faith. How he did this and over what period of time is up to individuals to think and believe what they fimd most convincing.
The death of of one cell life forms - all the way up to BUT not including man is really part of the natural order. God created lions and deer - and deer eat grass and lions eat deer. Both the grass and the deer die in this example… and the lion’s turn will be coming up soon!
Humans were created differently - we are made in the Image of God - and nothing else in Creation can make this claim. God gave us a free will - and there is no evidencce that anything else in Creation has a free will. God’s Plan, at least as I understand it, was to create man on earth and then to bring him to heaven. There was no death under this arrangement. Sin entered the world through the willful abuse of free will - and death of man is the consequnce. Nature that had been previously ordered - was now out of order.
Things like sickness, suffering, hungar, etc - that did not previously exist are now part of this disorder as a consequence of sin.
Did this answer your question?
God bless
Welcome to CAF!
Let me try to answer your question. I think the basis for my response is just how literal do you want to be? Once that is established - let me tell you the way I see it.
God created everything out of nothing. This is a matter of Catholic Faith. How he did this and over what period of time is up to individuals to think and believe what they fimd most convincing.
The death of of one cell life forms - all the way up to BUT not including man is really part of the natural order. God created lions and deer - and deer eat grass and lions eat deer. Both the grass and the deer die in this example… and the lion’s turn will be coming up soon!
Humans were created differently - we are made in the Image of God - and nothing else in Creation can make this claim. God gave us a free will - and there is no evidencce that anything else in Creation has a free will. God’s Plan, at least as I understand it, was to create man on earth and then to bring him to heaven. There was no death under this arrangement. Sin entered the world through the willful abuse of free will - and death of man is the consequnce. Nature that had been previously ordered - was now out of order.
Things like sickness, suffering, hungar, etc - that did not previously exist are now part of this disorder as a consequence of sin.
Did this answer your question?
God bless
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Hunter24
Guest
To answer your first question, I beleave that all life posseses an Imortal, endlessly reincarnated soul. You, me, a wolf, a cat, a tree, all have a soul. We are all spirits and parts of the Is All, we just happen to be ones tied to a physical body.
Now, I said I don’t beleave we were “Created to be masters”. Humans are indeed the dominant species of earth and (barring some secret society of advanced aliens under the ice on one of Sauternes moons [sarcasm]) the entire Sol system. However, we were not created to fill this role, we do not have some divine mandate or right to our dominance. Our position on top the food chain is not because of God, it’s because our ancestors were the best equipped to survive. We are here because our ancestors earned it.
Simply put, 2 million years ago, early humans were scavangers, not ontop the food chain. Then our distant ancestor Homo Erectus made an incredible invention, arguably the most important ever, the knife. The knife made up for our lack of claws or fangs and allowed human to use our superior intellect to hunt. Sense then fire and the Bow and arrow have set humanity on top of the food chain. We are not here because we are the chosen ones, we are here because our ancestors used our greatest natural advantage, our mind, to put us on top of the food chain. It’s a shame we are so diconected from our past because I feal that if we lost all our technology today, we wouldnt stay there. Civilization, for all it’s qualitys, seperates us from nature and has a tendency to weaken us.
Lastly, no it realy doesnt leave much room for Jesus. I’m a Wiccanso while I beleave Jesus existed I dont beleave he was divine. He certainly was a great teacher, and a great miracle worker, but i don’t see him as god. God is made up of all things, both benevolent, manevolent, and disassociated, it does not chose sides or interear in the world even though it is present. It only protects the balance.
But that’s just what I think
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Hunter24,
OK.
You probably guessed that I disagree with what you have presented, but sufficient to say I thank you for sharing your ideas.
One area, though, that I really am going to have to challenge you on … all this time I have been thinking it was the ‘wheel’ and not the ‘knife’ that made the decisive break. I based this on the simply fact that animals have teeth and claws - and the knife is a somewhat limited copy of these tools - ah, but the wheel - there is absolutely no recorded evidence of any animal developing a civilization built around the traffic jam! And, this is that natural outcome of wheel development!
God bless
OK.
You probably guessed that I disagree with what you have presented, but sufficient to say I thank you for sharing your ideas.
One area, though, that I really am going to have to challenge you on … all this time I have been thinking it was the ‘wheel’ and not the ‘knife’ that made the decisive break. I based this on the simply fact that animals have teeth and claws - and the knife is a somewhat limited copy of these tools - ah, but the wheel - there is absolutely no recorded evidence of any animal developing a civilization built around the traffic jam!
And, this is that natural outcome of wheel development! God bless
To answer your first question, I beleave that all life posseses an Imortal, endlessly reincarnated soul. You, me, a wolf, a cat, a tree, all have a soul. We are all spirits and parts of the Is All, we just happen to be ones tied to a physical body.
Now, I said I don’t beleave we were “Created to be masters”. Humans are indeed the dominant species of earth and (barring some secret society of advanced aliens under the ice on one of Sauternes moons [sarcasm]) the entire Sol system. However, we were not created to fill this role, we do not have some divine mandate or right to our dominance. Our position on top the food chain is not because of God, it’s because our ancestors were the best equipped to survive. We are here because our ancestors earned it.
Simply put, 2 million years ago, early humans were scavangers, not ontop the food chain. Then our distant ancestor Homo Erectus made an incredible invention, arguably the most important ever, the knife. The knife made up for our lack of claws or fangs and allowed human to use our superior intellect to hunt. Sense then fire and the Bow and arrow have set humanity on top of the food chain. We are not here because we are the chosen ones, we are here because our ancestors used our greatest natural advantage, our mind, to put us on top of the food chain. It’s a shame we are so diconected from our past because I feal that if we lost all our technology today, we wouldnt stay there. Civilization, for all it’s qualitys, seperates us from nature and has a tendency to weaken us.
Lastly, no it realy doesnt leave much room for Jesus. I’m a Wiccanso while I beleave Jesus existed I dont beleave he was divine. He certainly was a great teacher, and a great miracle worker, but i don’t see him as god. God is made up of all things, both benevolent, manevolent, and disassociated, it does not chose sides or interear in the world even though it is present. It only protects the balance.
But that’s just what I think
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Hunter24
Guest
Haha very trueHi, Hunter24,
OK.
You probably guessed that I disagree with what you have presented, but sufficient to say I thank you for sharing your ideas.
One area, though, that I really am going to have to challenge you on … all this time I have been thinking it was the ‘wheel’ and not the ‘knife’ that made the decisive break. I based this on the simply fact that animals have teeth and claws - and the knife is a somewhat limited copy of these tools - ah, but the wheel - there is absolutely no recorded evidence of any animal developing a civilization built around the traffic jam!
God bless
So if the theorie of evolution is correct then in 50 years or so we will a just have jet packs instead 
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samiam1611
Guest
Very interesting views Hunter!To answer your first question, I beleave that all life posseses an Imortal, endlessly reincarnated soul. You, me, a wolf, a cat, a tree, all have a soul. We are all spirits and parts of the Is All, we just happen to be ones tied to a physical body.
Now, I said I don’t beleave we were “Created to be masters”. Humans are indeed the dominant species of earth and (barring some secret society of advanced aliens under the ice on one of Sauternes moons [sarcasm]) the entire Sol system. **However, we were not created to fill this role, we do not have some divine mandate or right to our dominance. Our position on top the food chain is not because of God, it’s because our ancestors were the best equipped to survive. We are here because our ancestors earned it.**Simply put, 2 million years ago, early humans were scavangers, not ontop the food chain. Then our distant ancestor Homo Erectus made an incredible invention, arguably the most important ever, the knife. The knife made up for our lack of claws or fangs and allowed human to use our superior intellect to hunt. Sense then fire and the Bow and arrow have set humanity on top of the food chain. We are not here because we are the chosen ones, we are here because our ancestors used our greatest natural advantage, our mind, to put us on top of the food chain. It’s a shame we are so diconected from our past because I feal that if we lost all our technology today, we wouldnt stay there. Civilization, for all it’s qualitys, seperates us from nature and has a tendency to weaken us.
Lastly, no it realy doesnt leave much room for Jesus. I’m a Wiccanso while I beleave Jesus existed I dont beleave he was divine. He certainly was a great teacher, and a great miracle worker, but i don’t see him as god. God is made up of all things, both benevolent, manevolent, and disassociated, it does not chose sides or interear in the world even though it is present. It only protects the balance.
But that’s just what I think
I especially agree with the parts I bolded. (It’s like the complete opposite of Catholicism lol)
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gcharles
Guest
According to what many of you believe then I can assume the Mormons are right. We will evolve into God.
Actually I am challenging anyone to give me empirical evidence of species evolution. You will not find any. You say the bible is the word of God and then you say Genesis is incorrect. God clearly dictated to Moses that everything was created of its own kind. Please enter yojur evidence. When you figure it out there isn’t any then you are responsible. You can contact the Vatican if you want. The early church never taught this. If you disagree with God you’re wrong. I’m not the only Catholic who believes this. Go to the Kolbe Center and find out. If Genesis is wrong why would you keep reading. We say the Bible isn’t a history book. Why should I believe Jesus rose from the dead?
Actually I am challenging anyone to give me empirical evidence of species evolution. You will not find any. You say the bible is the word of God and then you say Genesis is incorrect. God clearly dictated to Moses that everything was created of its own kind. Please enter yojur evidence. When you figure it out there isn’t any then you are responsible. You can contact the Vatican if you want. The early church never taught this. If you disagree with God you’re wrong. I’m not the only Catholic who believes this. Go to the Kolbe Center and find out. If Genesis is wrong why would you keep reading. We say the Bible isn’t a history book. Why should I believe Jesus rose from the dead?
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Blacksword
Guest
Sigh…do you ever consider, for even a moment, that maybe the relevant scientists who have spent 7-10 years or more obtaining a doctorate degree studying this stuff, and then decades of research and work in these fields, maybe know a lot more about it than you do? Your understanding of science, and sadly of Scripture and exegesis, is woefully lacking, that’s really all that can be said. Please, please actually look into the science from a reputable academic source, and/or look into Catholic teaching on the senses of Scripture, and what the Church means by “inerrant” when talking about the Bible. The Catholic Church is NOT a fundamentalist sect!
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gcharles
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gcharles
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If you’re really Jewish you know that Moses Maimonides said as Moses stood in front of the Arc of the Covenant and God told Moses exactly what to write. That would go for the entire Torah and not the Talmud. For those who don’t know the Torah includes the Book of Genesis. As far as what settles the matter it’s what God says and not man, not even Billy Graham. The wisdom of man is foolishness to God.
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gcharles
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gcharles
Guest
Here is some accepted scientific information. First of all time is not a constant in the universe. Who said so? Albert Einstein. When the physical world came into being it was only a tiny speck. This is also said in the Kaballah. The universe started expanding at 80% of the sped of light or 148,800 miles per second. If it was much slower the universe would collapse and if it were much faster to spin out of control. (Lucky us) The time dilation is directly associated to speed of travel and gravity. Time dilation has been proven. If you were on the edge of the universe since the big bang your watchwould be billions of years different than us on earth. How did God create the physical universe. It is the opposite of a nuclear exploasion. Instead of mass turning to energy - energy turned into mass.
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gcharles
Guest
God told you how he did it in six days. Are you telling me Peter didn’t know God created the earth in six days. Apostle Paul said Scripture is God-breathed.
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gcharles
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The wisdom of man is foolishness to God. DUHFrom the survey:
Those With Postgraduate Education Least Likely to Believe in Creationist Explanation
um. . . . .
DUH!
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Hunter24
Guest
You want evidence of evolution? Go to the museum of natural history, take a look at a dinosaur foscil. Now please explain how that got here if we were created in our current state several thousand years ago.
I chalenge YOU, find me any evidence at all that there was a literal 7 day creation. (p.s. the bible doesnt count, I want some actual physical evidence)
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gcharles
Guest
I’m sorry I only have two degrees. I am a young creationist. Sorry but the wisdom of man-including you- is foolishness to God. Scripture is God-breathed. Egos get so big there is no room in your brain for the truth.
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buffalo
Guest
The fossil record consistently shows abrupt appearance, stasis and variation within. Yet to be reconciled is how long the dinosaurr soft tissue can survive.
Is it your position soft tissue can survive 65 million years?
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