Income equality: abolish pensions based on having been a government employee

[sallybutler]

Envy can be a very powerful thing. It got you-know-who who elected for the last 8 years, and has basically been the keystone of one of the party platforms.

But that having been said, with regard to someone having more than me (or you, or whoever) ----

If someone has more than me, and they got it by working harder, smarter, longer, than me and got it honestly, then I share their joy. God apparently gave them these talents, and they used them well. (Of course, there are obligations which follow regarding proper use of the honestly earned wealth).

On the other hand, if the wealth was gained by being in a union, then there is no connection between working “harder”, “smarter”, “longer”, etc. That person is paid more because (in most cases) the union has some kind of force behind it which disallows the employer to hire anyone outside the union. Accept whatever the union demands because they’ll put you out of business if you don’t. At this point (in my view), this becomes a case not of “honestly earned wealth” but rather case of extortion. So no, I do not share in the joy of those who revel in this ill gotten wealth.

IMHO.

Wasn’t one of the parables about an employer paying the worker who started late in the day the same as the one who started early in the day?

 

[signit]

Government has salary stability and protection from lawsuits. Private sector doesn’t.

One lawsuit, that malpractice insurance didn’t cover at 100%, game over, bankruptcy court for the doctor. $5 million judgment on a $1 million max payout insurance policy, well, who needs a home anyway, right? This happens very frequently. Oh, and you gotta pay for those lawyers too on top of that.

Just to add a little to this, doctors these days have a variety of asset protection vehicles (partnerships, trusts, etc.) so they won’t lose their homes and personal wealth in a malpractice lawsuit.

 

[signit]

The unions that have been cited sound like they have better negotiators than the businesses do. They are definitely better at negotiating for pay and benefits than I am.

Should I be envious or jealous of them? That seems to violate a commandment or two. Should I try to take away their benefits? Again, another commandment violation.

Perhaps a better solution would be to try to get one of those low status/high paying jobs. Or start one’s own business with no employees other than one’s self.

This whole thread sounds like the politics of envy. If someone has better pay or benefits than me, take it away from them!

As I said, I think public employees (teachers, police, etc.) should get what’s fair, no doubt about it.

But, if I were in that situation, I wouldn’t want to hurt someone else in the process.

I wouldn’t feel right, as a government employee getting a pay increase, knowing that that increase (for me and others like me) is being paid for though higher taxes on somebody who didn’t get an increase this year and has to make changes in their own life to pay for it.

 

[sallybutler]

As I said, I think public employees (teachers, police, etc.) should get what’s fair, no doubt about it.

But, if I were in that situation, I wouldn’t want to hurt someone else in the process.

I wouldn’t feel right, as a government employee getting a pay increase, knowing that that increase (for me and others like me) is being paid for though higher taxes on somebody who didn’t get an increase this year and has to make changes in their own life to pay for it.

Shouldn’t it work the other way also? By not being willing to pay higher taxes, aren’t you forcing these public servants to alter their lives to pay for you?

A conundrum either way.

 

[JimG]

At least as far as the federal government is concerned, pensions, even pay and benefits, are a rather small part of federal government outlays. Medicare and Medicaid far outweigh other costs. And from what I have seen of federal employee unions, they are particularly ineffective. They concern themselves mostly with minor grievances. They cannot negotiate pay and benefits or pensions—those are set by law. And they are required to represent any employee whether he or she elected to join the union or not.

State and local unions may have more bargaining power over pay and benefits, but they have to be concerned with the sufficiency of tax revenues; cities can go bankrupt. The federal government doesn’t worry about bankruptcy, but its outgo consistently exceeds its revenue, causing the federal debt to increase constantly. That could implode at some point, because it’s not sustainable. But everyone who receives a federal paycheck or a federal pension or Social Security, or Medicare or Medicaid, or any other federal benefit, is at the mercy of Congress, which can adjust or reduce or eliminate payments at any time. Or print enough money to make the same benefit worth less.

 

[ricmat]

Wasn’t one of the parables about an employer paying the worker who started late in the day the same as the one who started early in the day?

Yes, there is such a parable.

The lesson to be learned from it is not “Thou shalt pay everyone the same thing no matter how long they worked, or how much work they did.”

The lesson of that parable is that “the master” is God. The “pay” is Heaven. Even those who come late to God/Church can enter also. God makes the rules. The “master” also says he can do whatever he wants with his money, of which he has an infinite amount.

 

[ricmat]

The Parable of the Grass Cutters

Once there was a man and his wife who worked long and hard, and honestly, and then retired to a quiet existence. They had enough to get by, but still needed to be frugal to afford the necessities of life.

They owned a small house, and needed to have others cut their grass, for they were too old now to do it themselves. So for the last few years, they had hired the kids from across the street to do the mowing. Many of their neighbors did the same. For the kids, this was a great boon which their family appreciated, for they now had money to help with their own family expenses, and maybe the kids had a bit left over besides for their own enjoyment.

One day, after the mowing was done, the couple went to the door and paid the customary mowing fee $30. Suddenly, a man showed up, and presented a document showing him to be a representative of the “Grass Cutters Union.”

He stated - “You must cease and desist from having anyone but us mow your grass. Our union has made big contributions to the Mayor and City Council who have agreed in return that all grass mowed in the city will be done by us. Our fee to mow your grass will be $300. And, by the way, there is a substantial penalty if your grass is not mowed on time.”

The couple looked at each other and said “That seems a bit high…”

The man said - “You need to look at this from my perspective. The only skill I have is mowing grass. Before the union came along, I was unable to afford many of the things that I wanted. Now, all of us in the Grass Cutters Union each make more money than a Cardiologist or a Brain Surgeon. Isn’t that terrific!!!”

The couple looked at each other again and said again “That seems a bit high…”

The man responded - “I’ll bet you are just envious and jealous of my pay and benefits. You unholy people, don’t you know that envy and jealousy are a sin? Who are you to say that we don’t deserve that much?”

The couple responded - “But we used to pay the kid across the street $30. He and his family were happy. We were happy.”

But the couple, who were law abiding citizens, ended up having no choice about their grass being cut.

Meanwhile, the family across the street, whose kids did the mowing, needed to go on welfare. And the elderly couple were forced to sell their house at a loss, and move to another location which didn’t have any grass.

The end.

*************** Disclaimer ****************
Any resemblance to real persons living or dead in the above parable is entirely coincidental.

---

The man responded - “What! You are probably envious of my pay and benefits being so high.”

 

[sallybutler]

Yes, there is such a parable.

The lesson to be learned from it is not “Thou shalt pay everyone the same thing no matter how long they worked, or how much work they did.”

The lesson of that parable is that “the master” is God. The “pay” is Heaven. Even those who come late to God/Church can enter also. God makes the rules. The “master” also says he can do whatever he wants with his money, of which he has an infinite amount.

There is another lesson. Do not be jealous of the ‘Johnny come lately’. God will bless who He will.

I think many of us (myself included) worry too much about what others get instead being thankful for what we have.

 

[stinkcat_14]

The Parable of the Grass Cutters

Once there was a man and his wife who worked long and hard, and honestly, and then retired to a quiet existence. They had enough to get by, but still needed to be frugal to afford the necessities of life.

They owned a small house, and needed to have others cut their grass, for they were too old now to do it themselves. So for the last few years, they had hired the kids from across the street to do the mowing. Many of their neighbors did the same. For the kids, this was a great boon which their family appreciated, for they now had money to help with their own family expenses, and maybe the kids had a bit left over besides for their own enjoyment.

One day, after the mowing was done, the couple went to the door and paid the customary mowing fee $30. Suddenly, a man showed up, and presented a document showing him to be a representative of the “Grass Cutters Union.”

He stated - “You must cease and desist from having anyone but us mow your grass. Our union has made big contributions to the Mayor and City Council who have agreed in return that all grass mowed in the city will be done by us. Our fee to mow your grass will be $300. And, by the way, there is a substantial penalty if your grass is not mowed on time.”

The couple looked at each other and said “That seems a bit high…”

The man said - “You need to look at this from my perspective. The only skill I have is mowing grass. Before the union came along, I was unable to afford many of the things that I wanted. Now, all of us in the Grass Cutters Union each make more money than a Cardiologist or a Brain Surgeon. Isn’t that terrific!!!”

The couple looked at each other again and said again “That seems a bit high…”

The man responded - “I’ll bet you are just envious and jealous of my pay and benefits. You unholy people, don’t you know that envy and jealousy are a sin? Who are you to say that we don’t deserve that much?”

The couple responded - “But we used to pay the kid across the street $30. He and his family were happy. We were happy.”

But the couple, who were law abiding citizens, ended up having no choice about their grass being cut.

Meanwhile, the family across the street, whose kids did the mowing, needed to go on welfare. And the elderly couple were forced to sell their house at a loss, and move to another location which didn’t have any grass.

The end.

*************** Disclaimer ****************
Any resemblance to real persons living or dead in the above parable is entirely coincidental.

---

The man responded - “What! You are probably envious of my pay and benefits being so high.”

This is kind of what physicians and lawyers do with their occupational licensing regulations. Their pay is artificially driven up because of this.

 

[ricmat]

The Parable of the Grass Cutters

Once there was a man and his wife who worked long and hard, and honestly, and then retired to a quiet existence. They had enough to get by, but still needed to be frugal to afford the necessities of life.

They owned a small house, and needed to have others cut their grass, for they were too old now to do it themselves. So for the last few years, they had hired the kids from across the street to do the mowing. Many of their neighbors did the same. For the kids, this was a great boon which their family appreciated, for they now had money to help with their own family expenses, and maybe the kids had a bit left over besides for their own enjoyment.

One day, after the mowing was done, the couple went to the door and paid the customary mowing fee $30. Suddenly, a man showed up, and presented a document showing him to be a representative of the “Grass Cutters Union.”

He stated - “You must cease and desist from having anyone but us mow your grass. Our union has made big contributions to the Mayor and City Council who have agreed in return that all grass mowed in the city will be done by us. Our fee to mow your grass will be $300. And, by the way, there is a substantial penalty if your grass is not mowed on time.”

The couple looked at each other and said “That seems a bit high…”

The man said - “You need to look at this from my perspective. The only skill I have is mowing grass. Before the union came along, I was unable to afford many of the things that I wanted. Now, all of us in the Grass Cutters Union each make more money than a Cardiologist or a Brain Surgeon. Isn’t that terrific!!!”

The couple looked at each other again and said again “That seems a bit high…”

The man responded - “I’ll bet you are just envious and jealous of my pay and benefits. You unholy people, don’t you know that envy and jealousy are a sin? Who are you to say that we don’t deserve that much?”

The couple responded - “But we used to pay the kid across the street $30. He and his family were happy. We were happy.”

But the couple, who were law abiding citizens, ended up having no choice about their grass being cut.

Meanwhile, the family across the street, whose kids did the mowing, needed to go on welfare. And the elderly couple were forced to sell their house at a loss, and move to another location which didn’t have any grass.

The end.

*************** Disclaimer ****************
Any resemblance to real persons living or dead in the above parable is entirely coincidental.

---

The man responded - “What! You are probably envious of my pay and benefits being so high.”

NOTE: The sentence at the bottom of my post above was a cut/paste error. I didn’t notice it until it was too late to edit it out.

 

[ricmat]

This is kind of what physicians and lawyers do with their occupational licensing regulations. Their pay is artificially driven up because of this.

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. What do you consider to be occupational licensing regulations?

 

[stinkcat_14]

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. What do you consider to be occupational licensing regulations?

In order to practice medicine or law, you need to meet certain regulations, i.e. need certain education, pass exams, etc. Now, should it be the governments job to determine who can practice medicine? No. That decision is solely in the purview of the consumer. But the result is that physicians are like the grass cutters union. You have to pay their price because they prevent competition through occupational licensing regulations.

 

[ricmat]

In order to practice medicine or law, you need to meet certain regulations, i.e. need certain education, pass exams, etc. Now, should it be the governments job to determine who can practice medicine? No. That decision is solely in the purview of the consumer. But the result is that physicians are like the grass cutters union. You have to pay their price because they prevent competition through occupational licensing regulations.

For the surgeon or lawyer, yes, there are exams, levels of education, etc. required. I’m certainly happy that those things exist because it filters out those who are not competent enough to do the job. Should anybody who desires be able to buy a “Brain Surgery Done Here” sign, and go into the brain surgery business?

For the surgeon, these items are part of the cost of doing or starting a business. Anyone who gets the education, passes the exams, etc. can become a brain surgeon and then compete with other brain surgeons to provide the best service at the lowest cost. So far as I know there is no brain surgeon union that sets artificially high prices, or which consumers must use. If you think Brain Surgeon #1 costs too much, or is incompetent for some reason, you are free to use Brain Surgeon #2, or #3.

There has actually been a lot about this on the news lately, the bottom line being that you, the consumer, should shop around on your medical needs, and you can save a lot of money.

 

[stinkcat_14]

For the surgeon or lawyer, yes, there are exams, levels of education, etc. required. I’m certainly happy that those things exist because it filters out those who are not competent enough to do the job. Should anybody who desires be able to buy a “Brain Surgery Done Here” sign, and go into the brain surgery business?

It is not the government’s job to determine who is qualified to practice medicine. In fact, the government has done a horrible job of maintaining safety in the medical profession. That is why malpractice insurance premiums are so high. So the surgeons are acting just like the lawn mowers.

For the surgeon, these items are part of the cost of doing or starting a business. Anyone who gets the education, passes the exams, etc. can become a brain surgeon and then compete with other brain surgeons to provide the best service at the lowest cost. So far as I know there is no brain surgeon union that sets artificially high prices, or which consumers must use. If you think Brain Surgeon #1 costs too much, or is incompetent for some reason, you are free to use Brain Surgeon #2, or #3.

There has actually been a lot about this on the news lately, the bottom line being that you, the consumer, should shop around on your medical needs, and you can save a lot of money.

There is no free entry into the brain surgeon market. Get rid of occupational licensing and we will see true competition.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Government has salary stability and protection from lawsuits. Private sector doesn’t.

I would rather have an unstable salary of $500K than a stable salary of $50K.

One lawsuit, that malpractice insurance didn’t cover at 100%, game over, bankruptcy court for the doctor. $5 million judgment on a $1 million max payout insurance policy, well, who needs a home anyway, right? This happens very frequently.

Source for stats showing how “frequently” this happens? Unqualified comparatives are not very useful.

 

[ricmat]

It is not the government’s job to determine who is qualified to practice medicine. In fact, the government has done a horrible job of maintaining safety in the medical profession. That is why malpractice insurance premiums are so high. So the surgeons are acting just like the lawn mowers.

As far as malpractice insurance - I suspect that it has more to do with ambulance chaser lawyers, and people who want to build wealth through lawsuits rather than being due to doctor incompetence.

There is no free entry into the brain surgeon market. Get rid of occupational licensing and we will see true competition.

Brain surgeons and many other professions can only be accomplished successfully with a lot of knowledge gained through expensive medical schools. I’m not sure the licensing fees are all that expensive.

Even as it is now, there is still competition. We are allowed to shop around for alternative doctors. The “barriers” you talk about are based on real needs in terms of minimum measurable requirements needed to do the job. This is in contrast to the grass cutter parable where the kid next door can do as good a job for $30 as the union grass cutter can for $300. We get the same results from both, but are not allowed to choose the cheaper non-union option.

 

[Gertabelle]

Envy can be a very powerful thing. It got you-know-who who elected for the last 8 years, and has basically been the keystone of one of the party platforms.

But that having been said, with regard to someone having more than me (or you, or whoever) ----

If someone has more than me, and they got it by working harder, smarter, longer, than me and got it honestly, then I share their joy. God apparently gave them these talents, and they used them well. (Of course, there are obligations which follow regarding proper use of the honestly earned wealth).

On the other hand, if the wealth was gained by being in a union, then there is no connection between working “harder”, “smarter”, “longer”, etc. That person is paid more because (in most cases) the union has some kind of force behind it which disallows the employer to hire anyone outside the union. Accept whatever the union demands because they’ll put you out of business if you don’t. At this point (in my view), this becomes a case not of “honestly earned wealth” but rather case of extortion. So no, I do not share in the joy of those who revel in this ill gotten wealth.

IMHO.

And what if someone like me is a member of the teacher’s union AND works harder, smarter, and longer? The problem is you automatically assume every government employee could not possibly have worked “harder, smarter, and longer.”

Your theories are so full of black-and-white caricatures of government and union employees. Your comments are nothing short of calumnious.

And your posts are so full of hate and venom. It’s seriously disturbing.

You have my pity and my prayers…well, if you believe a government employee and union member still has enough of a soul left for God to hear her prayers. (I last went to confession two days ago and failed to mention my union membership. Perhaps I should go tomorrow morning before mass – with a firm resolve to leave the public school system so as not to continue to be a leach on society. )

So let me ask you:

What is the purpose of this thread?
What are you hoping to accomplish here?
Do you believe you are performing some sort of public service by sounding the alarm and rallying the troops?
Do you think that shouting louder and longer will force the government to change its ways?
Do you hope that government employees like myself will be shamed into leaving our jobs and our family’s security?
Or do you only wish to have an audience for your complaints?

Maybe you could go find some worthwhile cause where you can make a difference, and spend the rest of your one, precious, God-given life bringing hope and comfort, instead of spreading hate, envy, and malice. My prayer for you is that your life and your talents and your skills/experiences can be used by Him to be Christ in the world.

There are so many areas of life where we have no influence and no power. If we spend all our days complaining and shouting about these things, we will have wasted our lives.

But there are so many areas in which we can make a powerful difference, even transform lives through our service to others. And sometimes, miraculously, working where we do have some influence can change the parts of the world where once we had no influence. But you have to start where you actually have power, and not just with complaining.

Just the thoughts and opinions of a woman who is spending her one precious life serving God’s precious children in the public schools.

And seriously, I am absolutely praying for you. I remain your sister in Christ.

 

[ricmat]

And what if someone like me is a member of the teacher’s union AND works harder, smarter, and longer? The problem is you automatically assume every government employee could not possibly have worked “harder, smarter, and longer.”

No I didn’t say that.

What I said was that there is no financial incentive in a union environment to work harder, smarter or longer. You get paid on how long you’ve been there. Period. Of course there are some that do work harder, smarter, and longer anyway. God bless them, and you too if you do the same.

My wife just retired from a teaching job where she was a lead teacher supervising another teacher. The other teacher left early everyday, left the difficult or “dirty” stuff to my wife, and got paid 3X what my wife did because she had so much seniority. It was really a joke.

Government employees IN GENERAL get paid more and have better benefits than the private sector. Because there is no competition to the unions. They always ask for more, and the rest of us have to pay it. That is indisputable. I see no rational reason for it. I think another system should be implemented where those who work harder, smarter, longer get paid more than those who don’t.

I’m not sure why you disagree with that.

I do apologize if you think my words are harsh, but I’ve never been accused of tactfulness I guess union employees have the right to be grossly offended by someone suggesting something that might affect their pay. But the taxpayers are not allowed to voice a complaint against having to pay for your pay.

May God bless you and your students.

BTW - thank you for letting me know that my posts totally upset some people. I’ll try to tone them down from now on.

 

[Gertabelle]

My wife just retired from a teaching job where she was a lead teacher supervising another teacher. The other teacher left early everyday, left the difficult or “dirty” stuff to my wife, and got paid 3X what my wife did because she had so much seniority.

Well then, if you saw something unjust once, you clearly know everything about the entire system for all time.

I don’t know where or when your wife was a teacher, but the situation you describe certainly isn’t the current reality, at least here in Colorado.

There is no longer such a thing as tenure for teachers – thanks be to God! Tenure was a bad idea, most teachers I knew thought so, AND it was abolished in a legal activism kind of way, not through generalized complaining and throwing out of insults on random internet boards.

Currently, every teacher in Colorado is evaluated every year, and if we meet certain standards, we can move from “probationary” to “non-probationary,” or the other way if we fail to meet those standards.

A full 50% of our evaluation is based on student achievement.

The other 50% is based on everything from how we teach to how we interact with parents and how we work to improve the instructional abilities of our colleagues!

I think another system should be implemented where those who work harder, smarter, longer get paid more than those who don’t.

And by what standards do we decide someone is working harder, smarter, and longer?

They’ve tried that with education and the main result is that no one is willing to work with the most challenging communities – those with high populations of immigrants (children who aren’t fluent in English tend to fail the tests), those with high crime rates, those with high poverty, those with high teen pregnancy/parenthood rates…

The result is that the lowest performing schools were left with the worst teachers with the lowest pay. Is that what we really want for our students with the highest need? Or should those children just be thrown under the bus as lacking any real potential so who cares?

I guess union employees have the right to be grossly offended by someone suggesting something that might affect their pay. But the taxpayers are not allowed to voice a complaint against having to pay for your pay.

Grossly offended by my pay be affected? Is that what you think this little thread is going to accomplish? You can’t be serious!

Every aspect of my life is in God’s hands. My job is His to with as He pleases. If He takes it away tomorrow, may He be glorified. If He allows me to remain there until I retire at 65, may He be glorified. I hold nothing back for myself. If He lets my pay stay where it is, if He allow me to be forced to work for free, if He lets others abolish my pension as unfair – may He be glorified and praised forever! “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, and blessed be the Name of the Lord!” (Job 1:21)

But I say again, that your aspersions on my character (that all I’m concerned about is my pay) and on the hearts and souls of all government employees are calumnious. You cannot throw such a broad net of accusations without thought for the individuals you are accusing. Your assumptions to know that all, or most, or even some government employees are lazy, money-grubbing imbeciles is arrogant and judgmental.

That you keep throwing out your insults and accusations, and then try to couch them in statements that what you’re really attacking is the system, does not change the fact that your posts make false and defamatory statements in order to damage someone’s reputation. Try looking up “calumny” in the Catechism.

May God bless you and your students.

I hope you are sincere in your blessing of my students. You have no idea of the needs and the dangers and the sorrows in their little lives. We have seen so much violence over the mere eight years since our school opened.

Drive-by shootings in broad daylight, murders and attempted murders and suicides within our school families. Parents imprisoned for all manner of crimes, families without homes living in their cars, children unable to play outside their trailer because of drugs and gangs in their trailer park…

These children aren’t statistics to us. They are human beings created by God in His image and likeness, and we know every one of their names. And we care for their physical needs as well as their academic needs day in and day out. And we love them and their families and are truly laying down our lives for them in their service.

Yes, I get paid for what I do. And I’m not apologizing for that.

And the public absolutely, 100% has a say in what I get paid. They can approve tax hikes, or refuse them. They can even put a measure on the ballot to reduce taxes in the future. They get to vote for our school board members, which is more than most of our teachers can do because we don’t live within the district’s boundaries. And when it comes to mill levies and school board elections, boy do we have activists in our community!

These people (mostly senior citizens) are also the ones who petitioned the county to FINALLY put in sidewalks along a busy road next to one of our schools, and put in stoplights at critical intersections, and who volunteer at the school. They keep things like spending in check, challenge both the district administration and the union, and they strive to serve where they can. And God bless and reward them for the difference they are making in the lives of so many families!

Action, where the rubber meets the road. Not just complaining.

I’m done here now. Enjoy your ranting.

God bless and keep you.

 

[ricmat]

Well then, if you saw something unjust once, you clearly know everything about the entire system for all time…
…

I’m done here now. Enjoy your ranting.

Gertabelle (and others)

I truly apologize for my ranting. I’ve been in an ornery mood lately and it overflowed into my comments on this thread. And my fingers were flying faster than my brain.

99.9% of my comments (unless otherwise obviously noted) were not directed at any individual(s) here. When I mentioned “you” quite often it meant “the unions” or “the government” but even then, I wasn’t accusing everybody in those organizations of anything, but rather a subset of people who work in those agencies. Even then, I blame the organizations for the actions of those individuals not the individuals themselves.

Sometimes I use exaggeration to make a point (as in my Parable of the Grass Cutters), or when I said I knew only 1 government employee that worked hard (or something like that).

I’m sitting here in California with a guide to the next election, which is 222 pages long. Much of it filled with fine print involving taking more money from taxpayers and giving it to someone else, often government employees, including teachers. Yes, “it’s on the ballot”. Most people can’t read all that, and most people don’t. So “the taxpayers will vote for it”.

Gertabelle - I know what the schools go through, at least the private ones. I volunteer (free) about 30 hours/week at a Catholic school (private, not public) as one of my church related ministries. They have no union. The teachers get paid a bit above minimum wage. The school just hired a guy who retired from the public school system. He commented to me that he knew about the pay, but didn’t know “he’d have to do all this extra stuff.” Our teachers work 12-14 hours per day. Someone might ask, why don’t they get a union. The simple answer is that if they did, the school would be out of business. The school is in a VERY poor area, and the parents all struggle to send their kids there.

I’m starting to rant again. Sorry. But I want to re-emphasize that my comments were not directed at any particular person here. They were directed at the more nebulous “government”, and “union”, both of which have lots of different types of individuals.

I’m done ranting (on this thread at least). It brings out the worst in me. Which I also see brings out the worst in others as well.

Gertabelle - I do ask God to bless you and your students. Just as I do for my own.