Indianapolis archbishop revokes Jesuit prep school's Catholic identity

[AlbMagno]

Altought I agree with many of you, if the teacher would have been fired there would be significant backlash from the media and it would be more fuel for the left to accuse the Church of discrimination. We don’t even know if the jesuits knew about the teachers’ sexual orientation when they contracted him.

Also, how can you know which of the straight teachers are struggling for chastity and which masturbate carelessly? (Sorry for the crude language) How do you know if any of them is commiting adultery? Is scandal the sole basis for laboral toleration in a christian organiztion? Wouldn’t it make more sense for it to be sinning habits themselves?

 

[JimG]

Wouldn’t it make more sense for it to be sinning habits themselves?

Only if the habits of sin were publicly affirmed as fine for everyone to practice. If a teacher were to form a Monday masturbation meeting, it would be problematic.

 

[Thorolfr]

I think that most Americans will side with the Jesuits on this one.

You make it sound as if everything is black and white on this issue, but it isn’t. We don’t know the circumstances in this teacher’s case, certainly not as well as the Jesuits who are defending their decision not to fire him. Perhaps this teacher had been struggling for decades to live according to church teachings on sexuality and intended to do so when he was hired years ago but finally realized that he couldn’t do so any more.

Just to give an example, I read a blog recently by a man who came from a devout Catholic family and went most of the way through seminary with the intention of becoming a priest. He decided instead to become a teacher and taught at a Catholic high school. But all this time he was struggling with same-sex attraction and was trying valiantly to remain chaste and single. But in the end he realized that he couldn’t do it anymore because he was becoming increasingly lonely and more alarmingly was having more and more thoughts about committing suicide. In his opinion, for some gay people, it really isn’t possible for them no matter how much they try to live according to Church teachings on this issue and is often damaging to their mental health.

The Jesuits at this school in today’s news obviously know this teacher and his circumstances better than we do, and they apparently think it would be unjust to fire him, especially since his record has been spotless otherwise. I think that many Americans would consider it unjust, too, and as a public relations matter, won’t come across too well. Ruining this teacher’s career over this seems pretty unkind.

 

[13pollitos]

As a teacher and a Catholic I can see both sides of this.

As a teacher, I truly believe our personal lives should be off limits. No one needs to know if I am married, who I am married to, if i have children, or how my children came into my family. We do have a right to privacy just like anyone else. We also have a responsibility to abide by the terms of our contract. So I would like to know if this teacher has, but I think it is safe to assume he has since he wasn’t fired.

As a Catholic, I believe the archbishop has the right to not allow the title of Catholic to be used unless it is being used by those who are upholding Church “standards” (there’s a better word by my mind just blanked). No one has a right to call their business or institution Catholic. If I decided to open a car lot and call it a Catholic car lot since I am a Catholic, the bishop has every right to tell me to stop using that title. He cannot tell me I can’t sell cars though (unless I am doing so on church property).

As an American, I believe in the freedom of religion. I am uncomfortable with the state attempting to prevent private religious institutions from abiding by their religious beliefs. If the Archdiocese has decided this school is no longer allowed to claim to be Catholic, the state should not mandate that. And if a Catholic school decided to enforce a contract based on their religious beliefs, the state should respect that.

No one has to send their children religious schools in the US. If a school is not teaching the morals you want your children to learn, you are free to withdraw them. I believe that for other religions and even secular private schools as well. They are free to deny admission, deny employment to or fire whoever they choose—as long as they abide by their own contract. Public schools cannot. Public schools have to abide by what the state mandates because they are run by the state.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Are teachers supposed to give a good example to their students?

 

[o_mlly]

In fact, any supporter of any Jesuit institution in that or any US province should communicate right now, you don’t want this to set a pattern.

Amen. I applaud the Archbishop in his decision to disassociate the school from Catholicism.

Would McDonald’s be criticized for cancelling the franchise at a store that allowed employees to publicly practice unsanitary behaviors? No. Not to do so would negatively affect all other franchisees. The store can still sell hamburgers, they just cannot sell those burgers as McDonald’s.

The students, like the other franchisees, deserve protection from the scandalous behavior of the teacher in a same-sex union. The high school administrators may be cooperating in evil to the extent that their paycheck sustains the disordered relationship. But the scandal involved is the greater evil.

 

[commenter]

The mainstream media will treat this as the little guy mistreated by the hard, evil archdiocese, with the school on the side of Justice.

Actually, with this, and other Jesuit institutions, there is a long pattern of students, faculty, alumni, and parents complaining to bishops about secularism and other abuses in “Catholic” Jesuit institutions. Because the Jesuits are so powerful, bishops either looked the other way, or actively protected the secularists. In Washington, alumni tried to get the archbishops to delete the Catholic name off Georgetown, but McCarrick defended the secularists.

Finally there is a bishop willing to go up against the establishment. He will get trashed by the media, and perhaps politicians. Pray for him.

Do we really want the media to decide which institutions get labelled Catholic?

 

[Thorolfr]

In other similar cases, especially when the teacher was well liked, many parents and students have been upset over firings of gay teachers who got married. To me, it seems overly rigid to automatically fire a teacher for this reason alone without also taking other circumstances into account. There certainly doesn’t seem to be much kindness or mercy on display.

 

[13pollitos]

The only issue I have with what you are saying is if the teacher violates the terms of their contract. People are fired over much smaller contract violations and we never hear about that.

 

[pnewton]

I don’t see this as an attempt on the part of the Jesuits to normalize sodomy. Rather, the dignity of the individual and the capability of the teacher are being defended.

I am glad you said this. I would think that there is simply no other motive. On the other hand, it is contrary to Catholic identity for a school. I know such a person would never keep a job in any Catholic school I have known. The AB has an obligation to defend the Catholic Church in this case.

I see this as a case where an evil means (allowing a scandal) cannot justify a lesser good (keeping a good teacher).

There certainly doesn’t seem to be much kindness or mercy on display.

There is kindness to the children. There is also mercy to the one fired, less they qualify of the Millstone of the Month.

 

[Thorolfr]

Are teachers supposed to give a good example to their students?

I used to teach undergraduates at a university and students usually said in teaching evaluations that I was a patient, kind and caring teacher. I never said anything to my students about my sexual orientation or that I had a same-sex partner. If I was still teaching and had been doing so for years, I wouldn’t want to get fired because someone found out about my partner of more than 20 years without taking into account my other good qualities and my years of service. My sexual orientation is only one small (although important) part of me, and I wouldn’t want to be reduced to that thing alone.

 

[13pollitos]

My sexual orientation is only one small (although important) part of me, and I wouldn’t want to be reduced to that thing alone.

This part is very important. I agree. I also believe teacher have a right to privacy just like anyone else. That is why I would like to see what was in the contract. I don’t believe there was a contract violation. If there was, the school would have fired him.

That being said, the archbishop has the right to take the title Catholic away from the school. Bishops have done that many times with many different “companies” (newspapers, websites, previous schools, etc) for various reasons.

 

[Thorolfr]

One thing I’m certain of is that most gay people who read this story will see it as yet more proof of how much the Church hates people like them. I’m sure that many here will object that the Church doesn’t hate gay people, only their sinful actions, but this distinction will be lost for most who read about this in the news.

 

[Thorolfr]

I wonder why they haven’t taken the “Catholic” designation away from big universities like Georgetown even though it undoubtedly employs professors and other staff who are in same-sex marriages?

 

[13pollitos]

I do too quite honestly. But from what I understand, the bishops only have the “right” to do that for people/businesses/whatever within their diocese. So if they are not the archbishop over the diocese a university is in, they cannot do that.

ETA: I might not have been clear—I still think a teacher has the right to privacy and no action should be taken unless they violate terms of employment/contract. One of the reasons I decided not to teach anymore is there seems to be more instances of parents and faculty “expecting” to know the innerworkings of my family, my religious beliefs, political part affiliation, and other personal information they have no right to know. None of those things affect the way I do my job or safety around the kids. They do have a right to terminate due to other reasons though.

I think teachers deserve the respect we afford doctors and other professionals. How many people know or wonder their pediatrician’s family status? Im sure there are some, but not many

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

You didn’t answer the question.

Are teachers supposed to give good example to their students?

 

[13pollitos]

Yes and no. We have to in our classrooms, but our students have no reason to know what we do at home

 

[Thorolfr]

You didn’t answer the question.

Are teachers supposed to give good example to their students?

I think that teachers should give a good example but don’t think that one transgression that many people don’t even believe to be a transgression at all should outweigh every other good thing they’ve ever done in their life and should ruin an otherwise exemplary career.

 

[commenter]

Peter Blatty, “The Exorcist” author, an alumnus of Georgetown, tried along with others to get archbishops of Washington, including You Know Who, to pull the Catholic label off Georgetown, more for abortion advocacy than anything else. But the Jesuits are powerful.

I wonder why they haven’t taken the “Catholic” designation away from big universities like Georgetown even though it undoubtedly employs professors and other staff who are in same-sex marriages?

My understanding is that there had been for many years a trend to secularism at this high school. There is no longer justification for it to continue to be identified by the Archdiocese as Catholic. Suppose “Catholics for Choice” demanded the archdiocese identify (recommend) their group as Catholic in the Diocesan directory?

 

[Thorolfr]

Probably one reason they haven’t done anything is that doing so would reduce Georgetown to a second rank university. No major university would be able to attract top academic talent, many of whom aren’t even Catholic, if it was perceived to be intolerant towards gay people.