Inequality 'key to poverty fight'

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Vern,

As usual, I couldn’t agree with you more. I forgot to add education to my list of “must dos”.

Robert
 
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Matt25:
For every corruptee there is a corruptor. In many cases this would be Transnational corporations and/or Western Governments. If every Corporate CEO that OK’ed bribes went to prison that would have an (name removed by moderator)act.

It would reduce funding for the Republican/Democrat parties in a big way for a start.
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Now why didn’t I think of that? Clearly, Wal Mart is to blame for world poverty.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
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Matt25:
For every corruptee there is a corruptor. In many cases this would be Transnational corporations and/or Western Governments. If every Corporate CEO that OK’ed bribes went to prison that would have an (name removed by moderator)act.

It would reduce funding for the Republican/Democrat parties in a big way for a start.
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What’s with the anti-American dig? Are you trying to insinuate that the corrupt corporations are all American. No corruption in the UK or EU? No corruption in Taiwan and Japanese companies?
 
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rlg94086:
What’s with the anti-American dig? Are you trying to insinuate that the corrupt corporations are all American. No corruption in the UK or EU? No corruption in Taiwan and Japanese companies?
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What is the biggest economy in the world?
 
Vern,

As usual, I couldn’t agree with you more. I forgot to add education to my list of “must dos”.

Robert
 
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rlg94086:
What’s with the anti-American dig? Are you trying to insinuate that the corrupt corporations are all American. No corruption in the UK or EU? No corruption in Taiwan and Japanese companies?
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Oh, we all know that the most brutal dictators in the world were altar boys in the fast track for sainthood until “corrupt American corporations” came on the scene and led them astray.

Look at how Wal Mart corrupted that nice guy, Adolph Hitler.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
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Matt25:
If I had suggested such a thing that would be a fair point. Since I did not what is your point?
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Well, somebody posted this under your name:
For every corruptee there is a corruptor. In many cases this would be Transnational corporations and/or Western Governments. If every Corporate CEO that OK’ed bribes went to prison that would have an (name removed by moderator)act.

It would reduce funding for the Republican/Democrat parties in a big way for a start.
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vern humphrey:
Well, somebody posted this under your name:
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Where does it mention altar boys on a fast track to sainthood or Wal Mart? Do you imagine rich corporations do not indulge in corrupt practices? Its not just the USA of course news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3185145.stm
** Lesotho’s High Court has fined a German company more than $1m for bribing its way into a massive dams project.**The company, Lahmeyer International, says it will appeal against both the conviction and the 10.45m maloti ($1.46m; £930,000) fine.Lahmeyer is the second firm to be convicted in connection with the Lesotho Highlands Water Project. Acres International, a Canadian construction firm, was convicted last year, although the Court of Appeal on Monday reduced its fine from 22m maloti to 15m, by releasing it from one of the charges…
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Code: 
       Other trials, of France's Spie Batignolles and Dumez International, come up in October.
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After that, Mr Thetfane said, Lesotho will have to consider whether it can afford further trials - despite the fact that another half-dozen companies have been accused of involvement.
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Code: 
       "This kind of trial is very expensive for a small country, and we've been doing it on our own," he said.
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Code: 
       But he insisted that it was important to show "zero tolerance" of corruption. "We have demonstrated to the international community... that corruption is not just a Third World problem," he said. **"It has been demonstrated that it was not Mr Sole who solicited bribes.** Huge sums of money were deposited in his bank accounts."
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Code: 
         Story from BBC NEWS:
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Matt25:
Where does it mention altar boys on a fast track to sainthood or Wal Mart? Do you imagine rich corporations do not indulge in corrupt practices? Its not just the USA of course news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3185145.stm
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Why, your post made it obvious that all the corruption in the world is due to US corporations!!

Surely, those corrupt and brutal dictators** must** have been altar boys and candidates for sainthood had it not been for US corporations! I mean, if they weren’t, then maybe THEY were the source of their own corruption. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
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Matt25:
You mean they bribed themselves?
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You wouldn’t go far wrong if you said that.

What dictators want is power – and that’s what their reward is. That’s what Hitler, Stalin, Musolini, and many another dictator wanted. Money was secondary to them.

After all, which US corporation corrupted Caligula, or Nero?

Now, in point of fact, there is a US law against offering or paying bribes. British law is different – a British corporation can pay a bribe to a foreign official, declare it on their tax form, and get a deduction for it.
 
Matt has some very good points here. I find it interesting that some of the same folks who are always demanding citations for sources now want him to think for himself. The Catholic Church, indeed, Christ himself, teach that those with should help those without. This is a basic tenet of the faith. For those who disagree, Matt was simply pointing out the official Church position. If everyone did what they could it would really make a difference. Sure, some efforts go awry - but at least efforts were made. As for corruption - it is worldwide (the world, by the way, includes the United States - and pointing out our mistakes in not un-American). It is not okay for us to do it just because others do. Personally, I would hate to try to justify my lack of compassion for the poor to the Lord on the day of judgement (the poor? You mean you were serious about that?).
 
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koda:
Matt has some very good points here. I find it interesting that some of the same folks who are always demanding citations for sources now want him to think for himself. The Catholic Church, indeed, Christ himself, teach that those with should help those without. This is a basic tenet of the faith. For those who disagree, Matt was simply pointing out the official Church position. If everyone did what they could it would really make a difference. Sure, some efforts go awry - but at least efforts were made. As for corruption - it is worldwide (the world, by the way, includes the United States - and pointing out our mistakes in not un-American). It is not okay for us to do it just because others do. Personally, I would hate to try to justify my lack of compassion for the poor to the Lord on the day of judgement (the poor? You mean you were serious about that?).
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Nobody argues with any of this. The argument is over HOW to apply the Church’s teachings.

There are those who seem to want to throw money at the problem, putting all the poor on the dole, and others who want to make the poor self-supporting.

Those who take the first course of action tend to consider success a sin, all by itself, and to consider those who manage to rise econmically to be cheaters and “greedy.”
 
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rlg94086:
Now, who can argue with that?! I agree 100%, but the application of those principles can vary. If you do nothing but give money, you aren’t really helping in the long run.

God Bless,

Robert
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Agreed. If all we do is give money we are creating IMO anger, resentment and dependence. We need to create the feeling of self support and dignity.
 
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koda:
Matt has some very good points here. I find it interesting that some of the same folks who are always demanding citations for sources now want him to think for himself. The Catholic Church, indeed, Christ himself, teach that those with should help those without. This is a basic tenet of the faith. For those who disagree, Matt was simply pointing out the official Church position. If everyone did what they could it would really make a difference. Sure, some efforts go awry - but at least efforts were made. As for corruption - it is worldwide (the world, by the way, includes the United States - and pointing out our mistakes in not un-American). It is not okay for us to do it just because others do. Personally, I would hate to try to justify my lack of compassion for the poor to the Lord on the day of judgement (the poor? You mean you were serious about that?).
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I echo Vern. And if you don’t believe me or Vern, please read this interview with a Kenyan economist I posted on another thread…

service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00.html
SPIEGEL: Stop? The industrialized nations of the West want to eliminate hunger and poverty.
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Shikwati: Such intentions have been damaging our continent for the past 40 years. If the industrial nations really want to help the Africans, they should finally terminate this awful aid. The countries that have collected the most development aid are also the ones that are in the worst shape. Despite the billions that have poured in to Africa, the continent remains poor.
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SPIEGEL: Do you have an explanation for this paradox?
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Shikwati: Huge bureaucracies are financed (with the aid money), corruption and complacency are promoted, Africans are taught to be beggars and not to be independent. In addition, development aid weakens the local markets everywhere and dampens the spirit of entrepreneurship that we so desperately need. As absurd as it may sound: Development aid is one of the reasons for Africa’s problems. If the West were to cancel these payments, normal Africans wouldn’t even notice. Only the functionaries would be hard hit. Which is why they maintain that the world would stop turning without this development aid.
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I know Spiegel is a little too conservative for some 😉 , but this interview reveals some real truths. Like I said, I agree with the Catechism’s teachings. It would be wrong to just give people money and worsen their country’s problems. The compassionate thing to do is to help create real solutions.

God Bless,

Robert
 
vern humphrey:
Now, in point of fact, there is a US law against offering or paying bribes. British law is different – a British corporation can pay a bribe to a foreign official, declare it on their tax form, and get a deduction for it.
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Really, your evidence for this would be?
 
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Matt25:
For every corruptee there is a corruptor. In many cases this would be Transnational corporations and/or Western Governments. If every Corporate CEO that OK’ed bribes went to prison that would have an (name removed by moderator)act.

It would reduce funding for the Republican/Democrat parties in a big way for a start.
Click to expand...
After reading the totality of your posts on this thread, I get 3 basic messages.
  1. You can quote the catechism.
  2. Corporations are cause a lot of inequality
  3. You seem to give corrupt governments a free pass.
Your point “for every corrutee there is a corruptor” implies the corruptor is a human, a company, a country, etc. There are others: greed, envy, hate, pride, lust, etc.

Are all corporations corrupt? of course not.

One point you seem to have not addressed is this: Given a country is already corrupt, how do you propose to address inequality? (Your posts tend to just assign blame and quote more catechism, which really does not give real world answers on how to apply the catechism given the reality of already corrupt governments)
 
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Matt25:
Really, your evidence for this would be?
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Which, the British or the American laws?

As an American operating overseas, I was pretty thoroughly briefed by the corporation lawyer on the dangers of bribes – because we were solicited pretty regularly (often by the Indonesians.)

In discussing the problem with British colleagues, they showed me their budget for bribes.
 
vern humphrey:
In discussing the problem with British colleagues, they showed me their budget for bribes.
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Which doesn’t tell me anything about the relevant law that allows British firm to make bribery tax deductable.
 
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