Infertility

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ferdinand_Mary
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
And adding to the most recent post… Just because doctors have a procedure to use, doesn’t mean that God gave it to them.

Having free will means having the ability to create tools that are not good, or to use tools designed for good purposes in unjust ways. It is unfortunate that so many today buy into the moral mistake of ‘the ends justify the means’, that is, as long as I am trying to obtain good things, I can use whatever method I want.

Children are not property. They are gifts from God. Check into how the courts handle the products of IVF (embryoes, real human beings). Just like property! Their rights are not considered at all in the courts. Human beings, at their youngest, most vulnerable age, are always treated as the property of the parents by the courts. And why do they do this? Because logic indicates that they must. If IVF is accepted, the acceptance of children as the property of the parents, with no rights themselves, must be accepted.

Dan Grelinger
 
Dear Betty
Thank you for trying to support my faith. However, I do have faith. I just dont believe that God´s ways are always our ways. If it is not His will I will not become a mother, but I am sometimes struggling to trust Him. However, I put my life into his hands 7 years ago and He has never let me down but blessed me abundantly. Whatever happens is for the best I know.
I have great hope to be healed (or that I have already been;) and with the option of NaProtechnology I also believe I am in the best of hands. Besides from that my husband and I are taking up a special diet that has been proven to help many infertile couples, and we of course pray a lot for a child.
Sincerely, and merry Christmas
Amber
 
I haven’t read through the rest of the posts yet… so please forgive me if someone has already posted for this.

I am booked for sugery at the end of January at the Pope Paul VI institute (laparoscopy and others) to see why I have irregular cycles. As far as I know, there isn’t anywhere in Canada that does as thorough of a job as Dr. Hilgers will. Does anyone have other information? We are paying out of pocket for this and definitely do not have the funds at the moment (I’m in mid-20’s), but at the moment we are commited to going.

I can’t seem to find any info on where they can do this in Canada, staying with Catholic morality. Any info would be great!
Please keep us in your prayers.
Kim
 
Hi Kim
Welcome to CAF.
Have PMed you back, should you have any questions let me know, will be glad to help in any way.
God Bless
 
I was extremely glad to see a thread on Infertility. After being married 10 years with no children, and being tested, my husband and I decided to look into other options. We discussed with our parish priest, and he was very supportive of IVF option. I am not aware of other countries policies on adoption, but found that in Canada we are required to complete open adoption (which both my husband and I do not support), and found the cost ranging from $10-$50K. Being we do not have that kind of $$$, we decided to investigate IVF, even though the church is strongly opposed to this treatment. Currently we are on a waiting list for at least 10 months. Is it wrong to feel frustrated with this whole process? We just want to be loving parents, but seem to be ‘blocked’ from doing that. When we completed our marriage preparation, we were both open to life giving love. At this point I am feeling like we should just forget everything, and be content with our little dog, and each other. HELP!!!
 
LShymoniak said:
I was extremely glad to see a thread on Infertility. After being married 10 years with no children, and being tested, my husband and I decided to look into other options. We discussed with our parish priest, and he was very supportive of IVF option. I am not aware of other countries policies on adoption, but found that in Canada we are required to complete open adoption (which both my husband and I do not support), and found the cost ranging from $10-$50K. Being we do not have that kind of $$$, we decided to investigate IVF, even though the church is strongly opposed to this treatment. Currently we are on a waiting list for at least 10 months. Is it wrong to feel frustrated with this whole process? We just want to be loving parents, but seem to be ‘blocked’ from doing that. When we completed our marriage preparation, we were both open to life giving love. At this point I am feeling like we should just forget everything, and be content with our little dog, and each other. HELP!!!
Click to expand...
Hugs to you, on your long journey. This is a difficult cross, we face.

5 years ago, my then OB/GYN was pushing IVF and sent us to a fertility clinic, when they asked for a sperm sample, we left … after contacting PopePaulVI institute, we found the Marguerite Bourgeoys clinic (in Toronto) and have been with them since. (we had to provide a sample, they provided a perforated condom, so intercourse was unitive and procreative as well we were able to do the test)…
mbfc.ca/
We decided to just let God take charge of our lives and give us what is best for us.
 
My wife and I were also childless for our first 10 years of marriage. It was very difficult. I was able to delay the hurt longer than my wife, but finally cried one day at Mass watching a father coming back from communiion, holding his beautiful little daughter’s hand.

Our experiences with the medical community were frustrating. We knew about the Pope Paul the 6th Institute in Omaha, but were living in Texas at the time. We went to one appointment there, and found that being so far away would prevent us from benefiting from the help they could provide. The other health care providers treated us to one degree or another as animals (e.g. requests for sperm samples).

Our initial foray into adoption was equally frustrating; on our first serious attempt we were rejected by a Christian adoption agency (accepting funding from our diocese!) as being too Catholic.

Then we just gave up, surrendered, submitted to whatever God had planned for us; although certainly not joyously. It was only then that, through the help of several good friends, we had the opportunity to adopt a beautiful newborn baby girl. And several years later, it happened a second time! and again it was through the help of a good friend.

The first adoption was not open, at the request of the biological mother. The second adoption was ‘open’. Interestingly, our 14-year-old daughter (‘closed’ adoption) has been in contact, and has even visited her biological mother, over the last few years. Our 5-year-old (‘open’ adoption) has never met her biological mother, as her biological mother has not accepted any opportunities to do so.

I have two things I would share specifically with you. First, foremost, and primary… Trust in God’s plan. If you find you cannot, then you do not know God yet. With trust, comes submission, which I believe God expects.

Secondly, question your issues with ‘open’ adoption. In reality, as we have found out, there is no such thing as permanently open or closed adoptions. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with an open adoption. It may be something we don’t prefer, but should not become a roadblock to doing what is best for all concerned. Children who need adoptive parents, shouldn’t be denied.

Sincerely,

Dan Grelinger
 
Some have posted earlier the “Church” is against In Vitro Fertilization. Catholics do believe anything that can further a life or encourage the growth of life is right and just. There are more “extreme” Catholics that follow the rule of “Natural Law.” IVF does contradict the theory of “Natural Law.”

Some have posted that doctors are playing God with technology, science, etc. Isn’t this doctors in general? They are saving lives and curing diseases every day.

When a couple goes through IVF, there are certain choices you can make based on your religious beliefs such as the perforated condom mentioned above. We discussed this with our physician and made it very clear of our religious beliefs. We were not the first Catholics or the last to make our requests. They were extremely accommodating and very respectful of everything we asked.

Because we chose IVF does not mean we have undermined the meaning of sex. We did not violate the exclusivity of our marriage covenant. The conception and birth of our children were the result of human love.

An ER physician misdiagnosed me and caused major damage to my internal organs, which included my female organs. The damage was so severe they could not find my tubes and ovaries because they were stuck behind my uterus. My ovaries were clubbed and closed shut. The Creighton Model System of Natural Family Planning would not have helped my infertility. NaProTechnology would not have helped my infertility. We had two options. IVF or adopt.

We went before the Church to discuss our options. If we did not try, we would never know. We received the blessing from the Church. We then found out my medical insurance would not cover the procedure. We prayed and prayed. God blessed us with the exact amount of money needed to pay for the procedure.

We had one shot at it and that was it. If it did not work, we were going to go forward with adoption. We just could not go forward with adoption and always wonder if we could have had our own child.

If God did not want our IVF to work, we would not have been blessed with our twins 7 years ago.
 
I am so sorry for your struggle, homerunbetty, but you were given completely incorrect teaching on Catholic morality. Here’s an article that shows that even the promoters of IVF know that the Church is against IVF. ivf.net/ivf/vatican_conference_opposes_ivf-o1897.html You did not “receive a blessing from the Church” to have IVF. You might have been improperly counseled by a person claiming to represent the Church, but the Church, herself, maintains that IVF is immoral.

I am thankful for your twins who lived, but I mourn for your babies who were discarded. My response will not make me popular with you, but I cannot let this go unanswered. The Church is against IVF for many, many reasons. The second paragraph in the article I cited is especially telling. Note again that the article comes from a pro IVF site. They don’t refute the facts. The Church is against IVF. Period.
 
LittleDeb:

We received a blessing from OUR church going into this. You will find differing opinions on this matter throughout different parishes.

It is your right to feel we were improperly counseled by the Bishop and Priest of our Parish, but I do believe they represent the Church.

You do not know our situation and what we went through. So there is no need for you to “mourn for [y]our babies that were discarded.” There were not any to discard.
 
homerunbetty said:
LittleDeb:

We received a blessing from OUR church going into this. You will find differing opinions on this matter throughout different parishes.

It is your right to feel we were improperly counseled by the Bishop and Priest of our Parish, but I do believe they represent the Church.

You do not know our situation and what we went through. So there is no need for you to “mourn for [y]our babies that were discarded.” There were not any to discard.
Click to expand...
My friend and her husband sought the counsel of their parish Priest before they would go ahead and do IVF.He had a meeting with them and said that as long as extra embryos weren’t created it would be okay.They went to a doctor that respected their beliefs and only created and implanted one embryo.It worked on the first try and their daughter was born 9 months later.She attends Mass with them weekly and they are forever grateful.
 
Am2010 said:
My friend and her husband sought the counsel of their parish Priest before they would go ahead and do IVF.He had a meeting with them and said that as long as extra embryos weren’t created it would be okay.They went to a doctor that respected their beliefs and only created and implanted one embryo.It worked on the first try and their daughter was born 9 months later.She attends Mass with them weekly and they are forever grateful.
Click to expand...
I am hoping that folks do not turn this thread of support into an IVF debate. Part of the reason many of the women have wanted to be in this particular thread is because it is usually free from IVF pressure. From my previous source: “Pope Benedict also restated the Catholic Church’s opposition to IVF, and added that it should only welcome reproductive assistance if it ‘facilitates’ sexual activity between a couple.”

Just because science *can *do something, doesn’t mean ethically that they should. The embryo was still engineered. It was not the fruit of a natural sexual act. They still had the “mighty hand” of the lab worker choose the “best sperm and the best egg” to create the one embryo. It is *still *eugenics. Please read the document noted in my signature. The Pope in 1930 was warning about the dangers of eugenics then. It is making a comeback now. Current eugenics propaganda is nearly identical to that during the depression of the 30s.

The Church is against IVF. The ends do not justify the means. There will always be people who believe differently from the Church, but that doesn’t make IVF a moral act.
 
I agree that this thread does not exist for debating IVF. I can only imagine the sadness and pain that infertile couples go through, and hearing stories about how other couples circumvented the Church’s teaching is hardly encouragement. I know that the IVF familes are hoping to encourage and give hope to those still struggling and waiting, but it only ADDS to the pain they are already experiencing. I suggest starting a different thread, not trying to argue or justify IVF here.

To those who have dealt with infertility as faithfully as possible, thank you for trusting in God’s plan for your life. It is inspiring to a young couple like my husband and I, knowing that there are such faithful people out there. It reassures me that whatever comes for us in the future will be manageable, because it is what we are meant to go through.
 
CAmeliaD said:
To those who have dealt with infertility as faithfully as possible, thank you for trusting in God’s plan for your life. It is inspiring to a young couple like my husband and I, knowing that there are such faithful people out there. It reassures me that whatever comes for us in the future will be manageable, because it is what we are meant to go through.
Click to expand...
:hug3: Thank you so very much for posting this. I can’t begin to tell you how much your kindness and understanding mean to us. We’ve been carrying the cross of infertility for almost four years now. It’s the most difficult thing I’ve ever endured, and this being from one who’s endured a ton of physical/emotional/spiritual suffering. Thank you again so very much. God bless you and your husband! :hug3:
 
LittleDeb/CAmeliaD:

I am NOT trying to turn this thread into support of IVF. You are condemning and judging individuals for choices they have made after they have counseled with their Priest. You do not have that authority!

Have you dealt with infertility? Have you had to carry that cross? If no, then you can only “imagine the sadness and pain.”

Do you know what it is like to think you will never feel the tickle of a baby inside your womb? Do you know the sadness it brings to think you will never be woken up in the middle of the night by a crying child? Do you know the despair that is brought to think you and your husband will never be able to share that special moment of holding your newborn baby?

I have!! I suffered through it for six long years. It got to the point that I could not go anywhere because I would break down when I saw someone pregnant. An infant. A father holding the hand of his child. A maternity store. A billboard with a picture of a baby on it.

“Sexual activity between a couple” is constantly brought up. “Natural sex” between husband and wife. If you have EVER had to deal with infertility, this is one of the horrible parts of it. Sex is no longer “natural” in an infertile couple. It is a timed event. There is no longer passion. It begins to become a job.

For you to say some have dealt with infertility any less faithful than others is casting judgment. That, in and of itself, is wrong.
 
homerunbetty said:
LittleDeb/CAmeliaD:

I am NOT trying to turn this thread into support of IVF. You are condemning and judging individuals for choices they have made after they have counseled with their Priest. You do not have that authority!

Have you dealt with infertility? Have you had to carry that cross? If no, then you can only “imagine the sadness and pain.”
Click to expand...
Do not homosexuals have a mighty cross to bear that we know nothing of? Would you then say that because their cross is hard and difficult that if their priest counselsthem “Oh, yeah, it’s okay, you love God, go defy the Church’s clear stance!” they should just say "Well MY personal priest says it’s okay, so I am free to defy the teachings of Jesus Christ’s Church? Regardless of what your priest has told you, you have a clear directive (as we all do) that IVF is NEVER NEVER NEVER permissible under any circumstances whatsoever. That is black and white, clear as crystal with no ambiguities.

Your priest is leading you into sin and you must, for the sake of your soul, not allow that. I do not mean to diminish your pain, but you are very mistaken and will be willfully slapping God in the face to have IVF. The decision is yours, but please do not lie to yourself about it or try to convince us to tell you that it’s okay. It is a sin, period.

Edited to add: And please don’t be mistaken: LOVE is what compels us to tell you the truth. You cannot have love without truth. It’s not love for us to lie to you.

Let’s stop this discussion here, please, for the sake of us all.
 
sararaegraham:

How DARE you call my children a sin!!! You should have stopped the discussion before you made that comment!

YOU are NOBODY to judge!
 
homerunbetty said:
sararaegraham:

How DARE you call my children a sin!!! You should have stopped the discussion before you made that comment!

YOU are NOBODY to judge!
Click to expand...
*IVF *is a sin per the Roman Catholic Church. They have judged, not I. If you want to ignore the Roman Catholic Church’s judgment, that is your perogative, and one with eternal consequences.
 
homerunbetty said:
LittleDeb/CAmeliaD:

I am NOT trying to turn this thread into support of IVF. You are condemning and judging individuals for choices they have made after they have counseled with their Priest. You do not have that authority!

Have you dealt with infertility? Have you had to carry that cross? If no, then you can only “imagine the sadness and pain.”

Do you know what it is like to think you will never feel the tickle of a baby inside your womb? Do you know the sadness it brings to think you will never be woken up in the middle of the night by a crying child? Do you know the despair that is brought to think you and your husband will never be able to share that special moment of holding your newborn baby?

I have!! I suffered through it for six long years. It got to the point that I could not go anywhere because I would break down when I saw someone pregnant. An infant. A father holding the hand of his child. A maternity store. A billboard with a picture of a baby on it.

“Sexual activity between a couple” is constantly brought up. “Natural sex” between husband and wife. If you have EVER had to deal with infertility, this is one of the horrible parts of it. Sex is no longer “natural” in an infertile couple. It is a timed event. There is no longer passion. It begins to become a job.

For you to say some have dealt with infertility any less faithful than others is casting judgment. That, in and of itself, is wrong.
Click to expand...
Betty,

I am a longtime sufferer of infertility too. 4 years next month. I know all your pains and heartaches through and through. We’ve NEVER EVER been pregnant. Not even once. Due to my health issues we are almost 100% infertile. We will never have a baby of our own flesh, save through a miracle of biblical proportions. We have also failed the adoption process TWICE and lost two precious baby boys to other parents. We’ve been beaten down, trodden over, insulted, laughed at, ridiculed, mocked, brought to tears by the innumerable insensitivity of others, literally crushed by the terrible weight of this cross of infertility. Through it all I’ve battled my regular health issues. I have more issues than I can count on two hands, mental and physical. They are chronic and will never go away. When I go to the doctor’s I have to bring a sheet of paper that lists all the medications I’m on, for it would take the whole appointment to write them down. Last year I was hospitalized FOUR times for emergencies, Obviously these things prevent me from working outside the home. So I’m home all day everyday, and many nights too, as my husband works overtime to help cover these phenomenal medical costs.Yet, as I am home, I have little energy to do much more than listen to the silence of being infertile. The lifelessness of not being able to be a contributing member of my family, our society, the world.

Yet, even with all this, I remain faithful. 100% faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding marriage, sexuality, fertility and infertility. This is my way of serving God. I can’t serve Him by pursuing a noble career. I can’t serve Him by being a Mother. I can’t serve Him by active volunteering. But I can serve Him by being faithful. And that I am.

Betty, I’m sorry to say, but your priest has misunderstood the teachings of the Church. Sadly this can happen, even with an otherwise knowledgeable priest. The Church is against all forms of ART (Artificial Reproductive Technologies.) This includes IVF, AI, IUI, Donor Egg/Sperm, Surrogacy, and many more. Please read through this thread to learn which procedures are acceptable by the Church. There are many things that are medical, but not artificial that can help husband and wife achieve pregnancy naturally through medication or surgeries. These methods don’t hurt the sacred bond of husband and wife, nor do they hurt the life of their unborn children.

I’m so sorry you have had to endure this heavy cross. I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone. It’s the most difficult thing I have ever had to endure, and as you can see I have endured a lot in my life. LittleDeb has also suffered through infertility. Maybe not as long as we have, but she too knows the terrible heartache and inconsolable suffering we go through. This is why she continues to post here, to help others going through the same struggle. Some of us will endure this for life, others for only a short time. Still others will have only one or two children, but never be blessed again. All these souls suffer, and that is what this thread is for. To help all those suffering through infertility. We’re in this together. :grouphug:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top