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dkoinzan
Guest
Convert 99,
You are kind, but don’t be sorry. I don’t mind going through it. I just want to do it well. This is the stuff that gets us to heaven. Whats a little surgery. I have had this surgery before. It isn’t all that bad. I just want to do what ever it is that God would want me to do. I worry more about my husband and my children here with us. They worry. As long as I do as God asks and continue to offer it all up, it all seems peaceful.
You are kind, but don’t be sorry. I don’t mind going through it. I just want to do it well. This is the stuff that gets us to heaven. Whats a little surgery. I have had this surgery before. It isn’t all that bad. I just want to do what ever it is that God would want me to do. I worry more about my husband and my children here with us. They worry. As long as I do as God asks and continue to offer it all up, it all seems peaceful.
W
waitngnjyflhope
Guest
Lifting up the recent prayer requests!
And those who are in most need.
And those who are in most need.
C
Convert_in_99
Guest
**You have the best personality.
You are so filled with hope, love, and faith its amazing! I really admire you in all of this. :yup: ****Will keep you in prayer. Please let us know as soon as you are able how things went.
**
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dkoinzan
Guest
Thanks for the prayers! Surgery went well. I had some scar tissue, endo, and fybroids(sp?). There was one filopian tube that was clogged. Not sure if this could have had anything to do with Joseph and Theresa’s death. It has already helped with an annoying side ache. This lap was easier than the one I had when I was much younger. We are resting in our motel room. God bless you all!
C
Chovy
Guest
I hope you are well. I’m jealous that you get to be in Omaha though I’m not jealous of the lap (I’ve had 3 now and I hope I’m done with them).
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dkoinzan
Guest
I like Lincoln more than Omaha. I love home except I would want to be cleaning and I that would make my husband upset. I would want to spend all my time in adoration in Lincoln and my husband would be upset then also, so I guess it is good I am stuck in a motel room in Omaha and that it has free internet hook-up.I hope you are well. I’m jealous that you get to be in Omaha though I’m not jealous of the lap (I’ve had 3 now and I hope I’m done with them).
C
Convert_in_99
Guest
**Do any of you find it difficult to be a married CATHOLIC with infertility problems? 
**
**When the church and all her members seemingly pound it into your head that marriage is for bearing and raising children in the faith. That’s the primary purpose of marriage. Why aren’t you doing your part. Blessed to be fertile Catholics actually put us down for not bearing children.
That we somehow don’t have a marriage because we don’t have children. That we are horrible people for not making tons of money so we can at least adopt, cause, well that would be better than nothing, if we were so “uncatholic” that we HAD to go that route and all. **
OK…like we haven’t tried…so kill us for being “unproductive” for the church…that isn’t very pro-life either.
And…sorry we barely scrape by and are somewhat poor, again, what are you going to do about it, exterminate the “uncatholic” members just cause we don’t reproduce? Sorry I know that’s harsh, but that’s how they make me feel sometimes.
**Any other couple with these problems? How do you counteract such negativity? How do you escape? It’s not like you can stop being Catholic.
The parishes around here are just so unsupportive. **
**Please help! It’s just getting SO very old. And I don’t want to feel this negativity every time I walk into church, or visit catholic websites/books that support good catholic marriages (only with children of course! ,) or whatever. I’m willing to try anything. I know that I am just as good a Catholic as they, no matter what they say. What has worked for you to help overcome this? **
****When the church and all her members seemingly pound it into your head that marriage is for bearing and raising children in the faith. That’s the primary purpose of marriage. Why aren’t you doing your part. Blessed to be fertile Catholics actually put us down for not bearing children.
That we somehow don’t have a marriage because we don’t have children. That we are horrible people for not making tons of money so we can at least adopt, cause, well that would be better than nothing, if we were so “uncatholic” that we HAD to go that route and all. **OK…like we haven’t tried…so kill us for being “unproductive” for the church…that isn’t very pro-life either.
And…sorry we barely scrape by and are somewhat poor, again, what are you going to do about it, exterminate the “uncatholic” members just cause we don’t reproduce? Sorry I know that’s harsh, but that’s how they make me feel sometimes.**Any other couple with these problems? How do you counteract such negativity? How do you escape? It’s not like you can stop being Catholic.
The parishes around here are just so unsupportive. ****Please help! It’s just getting SO very old. And I don’t want to feel this negativity every time I walk into church, or visit catholic websites/books that support good catholic marriages (only with children of course!
,) or whatever. I’m willing to try anything. I know that I am just as good a Catholic as they, no matter what they say. What has worked for you to help overcome this? **
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dkoinzan
Guest
Convert99,
If you are following what God has asked of you in your life, you are not the one with the problem, they are. Pray for the people that hurt you with their words. You should feel sorry for them.
If you are following what God has asked of you in your life, you are not the one with the problem, they are. Pray for the people that hurt you with their words. You should feel sorry for them.
S
SeekerJen
Guest
Exactly.
Convert, did someone say something to you? It is perfectly acceptable and certainly more polite than they’re being to respond with “Why would you ever think that my family size is an acceptable topic for discussion or debate?” It’s none of their business.
C
Convert_in_99
Guest
**It’s not the actual words that hurt the most. I can usually just brush those off. It’s the excluding, snubbing off, ect. that’s the worst for me. That I can’t be inlcuded in the family activities because to “good” catholic married couples I’m lacking in an essential peice of having a “good” marriage. HEY! I’m just as married as they are. **
**Also, everything I read books, internet, whathaveyou about catholic marriage includes children. And if you happen to have the misfortune of suffering from infertility its like its your “duty” to spend thousands of dollars, put your body at great risk for surgeries, etc to have a baby. If you don’t at least do this then you’re not making the necessary steps to being a “good” catholic. Infertility hurts, it stinks, but, we are certainly not required to do all of this because of it. I can still be a “good” catholic doing nothing or just the minimal. Why does everything seemingly point to the contrary? **
**Sorry we’re not rich, I have serious health issues, and happen to be infertile on top of it all. Sorry I’m not a “good” catholic wife. Sorry I can’t be God-like and MAKE my husband’s seed meet up with mine. I mean, who do they think they are? It is SO beyond our control. DUH! **
**Is there some “safe” literature on catholic marriage that considers those who are infertile as still persons in a good catholic marriage. That we are not cursed, or less of a catholic, that we are still very much a family that happens to not have children. I’m just at a loss to find church support in all of this. People, literature, websites, anything. The only thing I find is the Pope Paul center. But, if that’s not an option for us, and its not, then I’m still trying just as hard as those who were able to go that route. It’s not required. I can still be a good catholic. Then why do I feel so alone in all of this?!?!
**
****Also, everything I read books, internet, whathaveyou about catholic marriage includes children. And if you happen to have the misfortune of suffering from infertility its like its your “duty” to spend thousands of dollars, put your body at great risk for surgeries, etc to have a baby. If you don’t at least do this then you’re not making the necessary steps to being a “good” catholic. Infertility hurts, it stinks, but, we are certainly not required to do all of this because of it. I can still be a “good” catholic doing nothing or just the minimal. Why does everything seemingly point to the contrary? **
**Sorry we’re not rich, I have serious health issues, and happen to be infertile on top of it all. Sorry I’m not a “good” catholic wife. Sorry I can’t be God-like and MAKE my husband’s seed meet up with mine. I mean, who do they think they are? It is SO beyond our control. DUH! **
**Is there some “safe” literature on catholic marriage that considers those who are infertile as still persons in a good catholic marriage. That we are not cursed, or less of a catholic, that we are still very much a family that happens to not have children. I’m just at a loss to find church support in all of this. People, literature, websites, anything. The only thing I find is the Pope Paul center. But, if that’s not an option for us, and its not, then I’m still trying just as hard as those who were able to go that route. It’s not required. I can still be a good catholic. Then why do I feel so alone in all of this?!?!
**
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dkoinzan
Guest
Convert99,
You only do what you can do at the moment and offer that up as your prayer. You are out of your moment. Think of St. Theresa’s little way and do small things for the love of God. Don’t concern yourself with what others think or say. Be happy because God chose you to be where you are at this very moment for the salvation of the whole world. He could have put you anywhere, but he put you just where you are and he did that for the best for all of us. Be happy! What is God asking you to do for love of Him who made you? Do that. Maybe its to vacuum. It could be to make supper or to smile at the neighbor. Find Jesus where you are and then love him.
You only do what you can do at the moment and offer that up as your prayer. You are out of your moment. Think of St. Theresa’s little way and do small things for the love of God. Don’t concern yourself with what others think or say. Be happy because God chose you to be where you are at this very moment for the salvation of the whole world. He could have put you anywhere, but he put you just where you are and he did that for the best for all of us. Be happy! What is God asking you to do for love of Him who made you? Do that. Maybe its to vacuum. It could be to make supper or to smile at the neighbor. Find Jesus where you are and then love him.
C
Convert_in_99
Guest
I am actually writing this down on a notecard and carrying it in my pocket! How absolutely beautiful! You are very blessed with a tremendous faith! Thanks for being such a good witness and example of God’s love in the midst of carrying such a heavy cross as I know you have.
**Since you are here writing…I presume your sugery went alright? Or, have you had it yet? I hope and pray you are alright and healing quickly!
****Thanks again for the beautiful words of wisdom. St. Therese is my favorite saint! Thanks for reminding me of her little way. She suffered too. She always wanted to do more than she could (like she wanted to be a missionary in another convent.) But God kept telling her “no” by the condition of her weak body. So, she humbly resigned herself to the fact that she would never get to do “great things” and that she must sufice to do little things with great love. And she became one of the greatest saints of all times doing just that. It’s truly amazing that you brought this up today. But it fits just perfectly! THANK YOU SO MUCH! :hug1: **
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Convert_in_99
Guest
Thank you so much for saying this. I usually just try to let things slide. I feel so uncomfortable doing otherwise. But, if I ever get the courage, at least I know its alright to say this. At least I wouldn’t be hurting people’s feelings!
**Thank you also for the kind prayers you offered on the other thread! They mean so much to me, and I surely need them to get through all of this. THANKS! :hug1: **
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dkoinzan
Guest
I made it through surgery fine. Already my side is better. There was either adhesions or endo making my side hurt. The doc zapped. I am tired and slow moving but its all good. My husband is working the swing shift for the week and working to repair the car during his off time. The water pump went out on our way home from Omaha. When it rains…
W
waitngnjyflhope
Guest
Recent comments and my own thoughts lately encouraged me to post this.
(The following article originally appeared in New Covenant magazine, and later appeared on Catholic Exchange. I have copied it from Karen Edmisten–Karen Edmisten: A Good Catholic Family)
A Good Catholic Family
We see five kids, or six … or seven. Maybe one on the way. And we know. That’s a good Catholic family.
And they certainly are. Their openness to life is an apparent and beautiful witness. But what of those families whose children number only one, two or three? Are we to surmise anything about them?
The question is more than hypothetical for many. My husband and I, for example, strive to be faithful Catholics, to live out all the teachings of the Faith, including those on marriage and children. We have three children – on earth. In Heaven there are six other souls whom I hope to meet someday. As we have suffered through miscarriages we have gained powerful prayer warriors in Heaven, but our large family isn’t visible to the world. This is painfully clear every time I am confronted by the issue. The questions range from well-meaning to thoughtless (though never, I am certain, ill-willed):
“Do you want more?”
“Are you going to try for a boy?”
“Three? You need more!”
Awhile back I met a friend’s mother, and the conversation turned to children. I had two children at the time and I proudly rattled off my daughters’ names and ages. She smiled politely. When another guest mentioned her five children, my acquaintance lit up. “That’s wonderful!” she said. “So few people have that many these days!”
Ouch. She didn’t mean to hurt me, but her words stung as surely as if she’d slapped me on the cheek. I had just lost a baby two weeks prior. I wanted to shout, “I want more – I have more! They’re in Heaven – does that count?”
Of course she’d have been horrified to know that her words hurt me and of course I said nothing. Charity often demands silence. And it’s worth noting that some of my reaction stems from pride. In the presence of people who value life I want them to know that I value it dearly, too. My openness to life is hidden in Heaven with my babies who (I hope and trust) pray daily for their mother to be less prideful and more able to handle the little stings that come her way. But still … still …
It hurts to be judged, yet it can be a vital wake-up call to not judge others. A few years ago I similarly judged an acquaintance. When I overheard her being asked about more children, I dismissed her curt response as that of one who is closed to life. I later found out that she’d been unable to conceive again, and I was jolted back to the reality of my own pain and my uncharitably quick judgment.
“Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts” – 1 Corinthians, 4:5
I was reminded not to judge by the visible number of children. Good Catholic families come in all sizes and “only” one, two or three children may be the visible sign of parents who have suffered.
Conversely, families with many children can struggle in their own ways with openness to life. Occasionally, mothers-of-many can, during difficult or overwhelming times, feel just as “closed” to life as those who don’t understand Catholic teachings on contraception. It seems a cruel irony that a woman with eight children yells at God for the latest positive pregnancy test on the same day that another woman blames Him for the loss of her baby.
It is not a cruel irony, but a holy one. Only the Lord knows exactly what we need – He is purifying each of us in His own way, allowing what He knows to be best, as we struggle to understand His movement in our lives.
And so, I turn to Him each day, both to understand His will for our family, and to ask for the grace to avoid judging others unfairly. Having struggled on both sides of the issue, I can say that perhaps the best response, when we hear, “Kids? Yes, we have two,” is a simple, “And what blessings they must be!” Then, let’s pray for one another. Now, that’s a sign of a good Catholic family.
(The following article originally appeared in New Covenant magazine, and later appeared on Catholic Exchange. I have copied it from Karen Edmisten–Karen Edmisten: A Good Catholic Family)
A Good Catholic Family
We see five kids, or six … or seven. Maybe one on the way. And we know. That’s a good Catholic family.
And they certainly are. Their openness to life is an apparent and beautiful witness. But what of those families whose children number only one, two or three? Are we to surmise anything about them?
The question is more than hypothetical for many. My husband and I, for example, strive to be faithful Catholics, to live out all the teachings of the Faith, including those on marriage and children. We have three children – on earth. In Heaven there are six other souls whom I hope to meet someday. As we have suffered through miscarriages we have gained powerful prayer warriors in Heaven, but our large family isn’t visible to the world. This is painfully clear every time I am confronted by the issue. The questions range from well-meaning to thoughtless (though never, I am certain, ill-willed):
“Do you want more?”
“Are you going to try for a boy?”
“Three? You need more!”
Awhile back I met a friend’s mother, and the conversation turned to children. I had two children at the time and I proudly rattled off my daughters’ names and ages. She smiled politely. When another guest mentioned her five children, my acquaintance lit up. “That’s wonderful!” she said. “So few people have that many these days!”
Ouch. She didn’t mean to hurt me, but her words stung as surely as if she’d slapped me on the cheek. I had just lost a baby two weeks prior. I wanted to shout, “I want more – I have more! They’re in Heaven – does that count?”
Of course she’d have been horrified to know that her words hurt me and of course I said nothing. Charity often demands silence. And it’s worth noting that some of my reaction stems from pride. In the presence of people who value life I want them to know that I value it dearly, too. My openness to life is hidden in Heaven with my babies who (I hope and trust) pray daily for their mother to be less prideful and more able to handle the little stings that come her way. But still … still …
It hurts to be judged, yet it can be a vital wake-up call to not judge others. A few years ago I similarly judged an acquaintance. When I overheard her being asked about more children, I dismissed her curt response as that of one who is closed to life. I later found out that she’d been unable to conceive again, and I was jolted back to the reality of my own pain and my uncharitably quick judgment.
“Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts” – 1 Corinthians, 4:5
I was reminded not to judge by the visible number of children. Good Catholic families come in all sizes and “only” one, two or three children may be the visible sign of parents who have suffered.
Conversely, families with many children can struggle in their own ways with openness to life. Occasionally, mothers-of-many can, during difficult or overwhelming times, feel just as “closed” to life as those who don’t understand Catholic teachings on contraception. It seems a cruel irony that a woman with eight children yells at God for the latest positive pregnancy test on the same day that another woman blames Him for the loss of her baby.
It is not a cruel irony, but a holy one. Only the Lord knows exactly what we need – He is purifying each of us in His own way, allowing what He knows to be best, as we struggle to understand His movement in our lives.
And so, I turn to Him each day, both to understand His will for our family, and to ask for the grace to avoid judging others unfairly. Having struggled on both sides of the issue, I can say that perhaps the best response, when we hear, “Kids? Yes, we have two,” is a simple, “And what blessings they must be!” Then, let’s pray for one another. Now, that’s a sign of a good Catholic family.
C
Convert_in_99
Guest
That is beautiful!
**I just wish more from the “other side” would read this and understand it…and quit giving us such a hard time.
I know where they are coming from. That side gets plenty of publicity from our church…why not ours too? **
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Giannawannabe
Guest
snif-snif:crying:This is absolutely beautiful. We have 3 children all of whom are adopted. We have had 4 failed adoptions and we have 2 children in Heaven. I truly feel that I am the mother of 9. It helps to think of seeing them all again some day. I pray for them all…especially the 4 failed adoption children. I know that I have been unfairly judged on all sides. However, I have also unfairly judged others. Sometimes, too, I know I have misread people’s comments or attitudes to/toward me, and been overly sensitive due to my own infertility cross. I will definitely be forwarding this article to others. Thank you.
C
Convert_in_99
Guest
**I tell ya! You all have such amazing attitudes in all of this. I don’t know if its cause you have underwent this for longer than I, or you are just saints. 
**
**I’m still in the sad, depressed, moody, bitter, angry stage. I’ve been here for about nine months or so. Sure hoping something helps me get through it quickly. I hate being this way. **
****I’m still in the sad, depressed, moody, bitter, angry stage. I’ve been here for about nine months or so. Sure hoping something helps me get through it quickly. I hate being this way.
**
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Giannawannabe
Guest
Convert,**I tell ya! You all have such amazing attitudes in all of this. I don’t know if its cause you have underwent this for longer than I, or you are just saints.
**I’m still in the sad, depressed, moody, bitter, angry stage. I’ve been here for about nine months or so. Sure hoping something helps me get through it quickly. I being this way.
I see the loss of having children as something to grieve over. Remember the stages of grief? Denial, anger, etc. I believe that we must travel through those stages. You may be in the angry stage right now. It’s difficult, too, because you are not sure if and how your infertility may be resolved. You want to still have hope of becoming pregnant, but then you just get disappointed and have to start grieving again each month it does not happen. At my age
, I am pretty sure my possibility of conceiving is quite small, so that hope has diminished quite a bit…along with the continual monthly grieving. Plus, we have reached a resolution! We have a beautiful family of children that we are so very thankful for. Everyone handles grief differently. Perhaps some spiritual direction from a priest or other person may be beneficial? You’ve mentioned before that you need to talk to people about this. Maybe call in to Catholic radio–Ray Guarendi or Gregory Popczak?Prayers continuing for you and all on this thread.
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