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Faith1960
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Other than Holder, Guth and Davies, I don’t know of any Christian astronomers or their beliefs. Do you?
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Charlemagne_III
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I think the most famous would be Isaac Newton.
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Faith1960
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I mean present day scientists. They have to be alive.I think the most famous would be Isaac Newton.
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Faith1960
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Faith1960
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I found several older threads about this topic and some Catholic posters thought it’s possible that infinite universes can exist.
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Bob_Crowley
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I found this bloke at Durham University. I don’t know what his beliefs are about multiverses.
dur.ac.uk/codec/who/davidwilkinson/
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Faith1960
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Feel free to weigh in people!
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mikekle
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Theres actually quite a bit of evidence for multiple dimensions/ universes…I was just reading a theory about this today in a news article, its truly amazing what they can learn thru mathematics and science today!
Its late here and getting ready for bed, but I will put a few very credible links tomorrow regarding multiple dimensions/universes and the evidence they have for them. Plus, when you get into quantum theory, this gets into a whole other area in regards to this topic, this goes MUCH further ‘down the rabbit hole’ than just multiple dimensions, but basically in the quantum world, something can exist in more than one place at one time and not exist in more than one place as well…hard to understand and explain though, however as we learn more about it, I think it will lead to some absolutely amazing discoveries that will change the world as we know it.
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Faith1960
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In the book “Is God Unecessary? Why Stephen Hawking is Wrong According to the Laws Of Physics,” by Walter Alan Ray he says there are only two options:
- to believe there are an infinite number of universes, or,
- to believe there is,a God who created the universe.
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Faith1960
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In John C.Lennox’s book, God and Stephen Hawking he writes:
“What then is Hawking’s preferred answer to what he admits is the “apparent miracle” of fine tuning?
It is the universe. The idea is, roughly speaking that there are several many world scenarios and so many universes (some suggest infinitely many, whatever that means) that a anything that can happen will happen in some universe…
From theoretical point of view, as philosophers have pointed out, God could create as many universes as he pleases. The MultiVARIate concept of itself does not and cannot rule God out…”
This seems to be in opposition Walter Alan Ray and what he wrote.
“What then is Hawking’s preferred answer to what he admits is the “apparent miracle” of fine tuning?
It is the universe. The idea is, roughly speaking that there are several many world scenarios and so many universes (some suggest infinitely many, whatever that means) that a anything that can happen will happen in some universe…
From theoretical point of view, as philosophers have pointed out, God could create as many universes as he pleases. The MultiVARIate concept of itself does not and cannot rule God out…”
This seems to be in opposition Walter Alan Ray and what he wrote.
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Richca
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Maybe phoenix’s, mermaids, martians and hobbits exist too.
It is written “But you have disposed all things by measure and number and weight” (Wisdom 11:20). Now that which is disposed by measure, number and weight is opposed to the infinite which is without measure, number and weight.
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Charlemagne_III
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Right, with an infinite number of universes there are infinite possibilities, including a universe such as ours that appears to be designed but really is not.
So this is a vain attempt to remove teleology (design) from creation.
You know, with these kinds of scenarios, it just happens to work out that atheists can’t lose. The only possibility they have to rule out is that we might exist in the only universe there is and that God created it.
You don’t ever hear them talk about that possibility, do you?
Again, there is no observable or repeatable or verifiable EVIDENCE for infinite universes except in the atheist’s imagination.
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Faith1960
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Why would multiuniverses rule out God? Like Lennox said, GOD could create as many universes as He wishes. Nothing would prohibit Him from ruling them all.Right, with an infinite number of universes there are infinite possibilities, including a universe such as ours that appears to be designed but really is not.
So this is a vain attempt to remove teleology (design) from creation.
You know, with these kinds of scenarios, it just happens to work out that atheists can’t lose. The only possibility they have to rule out is that we might exist in the only universe there is and that God created it.
You don’t ever hear them talk about that possibility, do you?
Again, there is no observable or repeatable or verifiable EVIDENCE for infinite universes except in the atheist’s imagination.
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Charlemagne_III
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There is only one universe that matters and for which we have definite proof of its existence.
Carl Sagan in Cosmos, 1980 A.D.
“Ten or twenty billion years ago, something happened – the Big Bang, the event that began our universe…. In that titanic cosmic explosion, the universe began an expansion which has never ceased…. As space stretched, the matter and energy in the universe expanded with it and rapidly cooled. The radiation of the cosmic fireball, which, then as now, filled the universe, moved through the spectrum – from gamma rays to X-rays to ultraviolet light; through the rainbow colors of the visible spectrum; into the infrared and radio regions. The remnants of that fireball, the cosmic background radiation, emanating from all parts of the sky can be detected by radio telescopes today. In the early universe, space was brilliantly illuminated.”
Genesis, 1200 B.C. : “In the beginning God said: ‘Let there be light.’”
As astronomer Robert Jastrow pointed out in God and the Astronomers.
“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
By asserting the multiverse the atheist does not have to admit to a creator God.
The multiverse simply exists.
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seagal
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Your conclusion doesn’t follow your premise. Even atheists who don’t hold to the multiverse theory don’t feel compelled to admit to a creator to this one provable universe. I side with John Lennox on this one. Whether we ever prove the multiverse theory or not, God is not found in scientific proofs.
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Charlemagne_III
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I disagree. More and more scientific theories and discoveries seem consistent with the idea of a Creator, and a designing Creator at that.
“True science to an ever-increasing degree discovers God as though God were waiting behind each closed door opened by science.” Pope Pius XII
“This most beautiful system [the solar system] could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.” Isaac Newton
“The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator.”
Louis Pasteur
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.” Werner Heisenberg
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.” Albert Einstein
I could provide a few more quotes, but you get the idea.
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Faith1960
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Try quotes from current astronomers ans cosmologists.I disagree. More and more scientific theories and discoveries seem consistent with the idea of a Creator, and a designing Creator at that.
“True science to an ever-increasing degree discovers God as though God were waiting behind each closed door opened by science.” Pope Pius XII
“This most beautiful system [the solar system] could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.” Isaac Newton
“The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator.”
Louis Pasteur
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.” Werner Heisenberg
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.” Albert Einstein
I could provide a few more quotes, but you get the idea.
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Faith1960
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Lennox even mentioned infinite universes by saying “whatever that means,” but he didn’t elaborate. For certain he’s fine with the possibility of a multiverse. And Lennox was,one of the names someone brought up here or in another thread as someone qualified to talk about these subjects.
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Richca
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The CCC#286 states “Human intelligence is surely already capable of finding a response to the question of origins. the existence of God the Creator can be known with certainty through his works, by the light of human reason, even if this knowledge is often obscured and disfigured by error.”
St Paul says “For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. While claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes” (Romans 1: 19-23).
And "The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.” (Psalm 14:1)
And “The heavens declare the glory of God;
the firmament proclaims the works of his hands.
Day unto day pours forth speech;
night unto night whispers knowledge.
There is no speech, no words;
their voice is not heard;
A report goes forth through all the earth,
their messages, to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19: 2-5).
St Thomas Aquinas in his summa theologica proves that the existence of God can be demonstrated by the natural light of reason through that science which is called metaphysics or first philosophy and common sense of which the denial is conceptually incoherent and inexplicable.
So, according to Holy Scripture, the teaching of the Catholic Church, and the philosophy of St Thomas Aquinas, the existence of God the creator can be known with certainty by the natural light of reason.
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Charlemagne_III
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Are only living scientists qualified to be heard?
So does that mean that when Dawkins and Hawking are dead, their views are no longer relevant?
After Aquinas died, did his theology become passe? We can no longer quote him?
I’d say Newton alone was a lot smarter than all the living scientists put together.
But I guess you know better.
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