Intelligence founded God, so Man is God

[grannymh]

I would like to argue that the universe is life, and that life evolved to such a point that it became intelligent. This intelligence could not explain its being, so it concluded that God(s) had created the universe it inhabited. I could also argue that God(s) is used to explain everything intelligence could not explain.

Basically, intelligence created God, so intelligence is God. Man is God. Sacrilege?

Good evening, godfree 12,

So when was the first time you saw “Waiting for Godot” ??

Since I saw the play in a hole-in-the-wall bar with chairs and tables stuffed together, our knowledge of the evolutionary process has changed more dramatically than the theater of that era.

Because of technology, scientists have examined the simple cell and found it not so. Mathematicians have determined the odds of all the elements needed by the cell to come together at the exact same time so that the cell can function. From that point, the odds increase at great rates as evolutionary beings increase in complexity.

Richard Dawkins talks a good game. But if you are curious enough about evolution so that you would read a 151-page paperback, I suggest that you find the book “Answering The New Atheism, Dismantling Dawkins’ Case Against God” by Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker. They skipped Dawkins’ rhetoric about God and examined his theories about evolution. The odds are that you might like it, even without the spice. In any case, it will give you the current thoughts about evolution. As always, it is up to you to make the choice as to what you believe.

May good thoughts come your way,
grannymh

 

[fhansen]

I would like to argue that the universe is life, and that life evolved to such a point that it became intelligent. This intelligence could not explain its being, so it concluded that God(s) had created the universe it inhabited. I could also argue that God(s) is used to explain everything intelligence could not explain.

Basically, intelligence created God, so intelligence is God. Man is God. Sacrilege?

I grow weary of this line of “reasoning”. No one can create a birdhouse without at least a modicum of bra(name removed by moderator)ower, no matter how much time they have on their hands, and yet we’re expected to believe that the whole universe exists with no brains behind it all and that it then proceeded to mindlessly produce, well, minds- eventually.

 

[godfree12]

I grow weary of this line of “reasoning”. No one can create a birdhouse without at least a modicum of bra(name removed by moderator)ower, no matter how much time they have on their hands, and yet we’re expected to believe that the whole universe exists with no brains behind it all and that it then proceeded to mindlessly produce, well, minds- eventually.

C’mon now old chap try to think a little deeper. What do all the other stars in the universe do other than “mindlessly produce”? And don’t answer me: ‘to be the stars in our sky.’ Why would God create all the other galaxies, stars, planets, life, and black holes that we haven’t seen if they’re there for nothing?

Why do we need a creator? I receive confidence from knowing I control my God.

I see know reason anymore to follow a 1,500 year old book(estimated guess). The Bible has caused an incredible amount of hate, intolerance, murder, intimidation, and closed mindedness. Jesus was the son of God, just as we are the children of God. The children of a God created as such.

What is this other world that God lives in? and observes us from? Don’t say the kingdom of heaven.

BEING IS IN ITSELF

We’re here because we are living organisms in a living universe. We are the epitome of nature (On Earth at least). Our inherent duty is to evolve, to spread out, colonize the universe of our species. Like spores from a fungus. Hah that’s what we are, and it requires a lot of humility to admit that. Humility and free minds. Not Christians, Jews, Americans, Britons, Muslims, atheists, but Man the creator and controller of God.

If God be so infinite and powerful, have him strike me down through the internet. SMITE ME O LORD!

That is the purpose life gives us, because what purpose is there in an infinite universe? None that I can see. It’s not a birdhouse because it wasn’t created for any purpose.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

C’mon now old chap try to think a little deeper. What do all the other stars in the universe do other than “mindlessly produce”? And don’t answer me: ‘to be the stars in our sky.’ Why would God create all the other galaxies, stars, planets, life, and black holes that we haven’t seen if they’re there for nothing?

i would assume that they are their for our use, and we have been using them for thousands of years, for timekeeping navigation, etc. they may also be of another use should we ever reach them

Why do we need a creator? I receive confidence from knowing I control my God.

we need a creator because we cannot create ourselves, because their is a first cause, sufficient to cause the universe. ultimately, nothing comes from nothing. it is not possible, according to physics for the universe to be eternal

please provide some examples of this hate or intolerance etc. that you are talking about

What is this other world that God lives in? and observes us from? Don’t say the kingdom of heaven.

the mathematical regression from the observable universe back to the big bang posits a ‘moment’ (for lack of a better word) when no physical laws and no time existed. it also posits a singularity from which the universe expanded.

that singularity is an assumption that explains from ‘what’ the universe expanded, it is not actually mathematically possible to show that the singularity existed, the math does not extend past the ‘moment’ in which no time or physical laws existed

with no singularity the theory reduces to a mathematical proof of an infinity prior to and outside of the observable universe

further that infinity in which no time or space exists is, by the nature of an infinity, self existent, as bacon said, should one infinity exist it would preclude all others.

proof, i believe, of an existent First Cause that is infinite in its nature.

just as we have always claimed G-d to be.

BEING IS IN ITSELF

really? provide one example of an existent object of any kind that is not contingent on something else.

We’re here because we are living organisms in a living universe. We are the epitome of nature (On Earth at least). Our inherent duty is to evolve, to spread out, colonize the universe of our species. Like spores from a fungus. Hah that’s what we are, and it requires a lot of humility to admit that. Humility and free minds. Not Christians, Jews, Americans, Britons, Muslims, atheists, but Man the creator and controller of God.

that makes no sense to me. if you are right and we simply are, by what mechanism do we develop a duty to do anything?

If God be so infinite and powerful, have him strike me down through the internet. SMITE ME O LORD!

he only listens to the prayers of the righteous, the faithful. why do you think he will bother to strike you down?

That is the purpose life gives us, because what purpose is there in an infinite universe? None that I can see. It’s not a birdhouse because it wasn’t created for any purpose.

first the universe is not infinite, there are definite limits and dimensions

the purpose is for the benefit of G-d, it is an expression of His Divine Love, he created others who can truly, freely choose to love Him. our purpose is to be tools that fulfill his will,

further, what is created that has no purpose, nothing, all things that a person makes are for some purpose. why would G-d be any different?

 

[RobbyS]

Sure, but also absurdity.
Man is God because intelligence is God? So A: Man is intelligence
B: intelligence is God
therefore
C: Man is God?
Both premises are based upon nothing.
The universe came to life? Why? And where did it come from?
It has intelligence? Where did that come from?
A living, intelligent universe forgets it came to life without God and invents God and then this proves it is God?
It’s a bit Shirley-MacLaine-ish, and very blurry, and I would reject it even if I didn’t already know what I believe.

Voltaire made the same argument, but yes, it does beg the question of the origins of human intelligence. Even agnostics wonder how it is that reality so nearly conforms to what we say about it. The kind of skepticism that says we actually know nothing, or that there is no reality, is about as useful as the pipe dreams of an opium addict.

 

[fhansen]

C’mon now old chap try to think a little deeper. What do all the other stars in the universe do other than “mindlessly produce”? And don’t answer me: ‘to be the stars in our sky.’ Why would God create all the other galaxies, stars, planets, life, and black holes that we haven’t seen if they’re there for nothing?

What the stars don’t do is one day decide to produce, say, a strand of DNA, or even build something billions of times less complex, like, say, a birdhouse.

Why do we need a creator? I receive confidence from knowing I control my God.

Yeah, everybody likes that idea-it’s been around forever.

I see know reason anymore to follow a 1,500 year old book(estimated guess). The Bible has caused an incredible amount of hate, intolerance, murder, intimidation, and closed mindedness. Jesus was the son of God, just as we are the children of God. The children of a God created as such.

People cause “an incredible amount of hate, intolerance, murder, intimidation, and closed mindedness.” They don’t need a book to do it although they can exploit one that way if they prefer.

What is this other world that God lives in? and observes us from? Don’t say the kingdom of heaven.

God lives wherever he wants.

We’re here because we are living organisms in a living universe. We are the epitome of nature (On Earth at least). Our inherent duty is to evolve, to spread out, colonize the universe of our species. Like spores from a fungus. Hah that’s what we are, and it requires a lot of humility to admit that. Humility and free minds. Not Christians, Jews, Americans, Britons, Muslims, atheists, but Man the creator and controller of God.

If we can accomplish no more than spores do, why call us the epitome of anything?

If God be so infinite and powerful, have him strike me down through the internet. SMITE ME O LORD!

One of God’s virtues is his patience.

That is the purpose life gives us, because what purpose is there in an infinite universe? None that I can see. It’s not a birdhouse because it wasn’t created for any purpose.

Who said the universe is infinite? And whether or not it has a purpose, it still has a design. And if it did have no purpose, why care about such things as “hate, intolerance, murder, intimidation, and closed mindedness.”? What difference does any of that make and who cares how much confidence we gain from controlling our God? None of that matters in a purposeless universe.

 

[JDaniel]

I would like to argue that the universe is life, and that life evolved to such a point that it became intelligent. This intelligence could not explain its being, so it concluded that God(s) had created the universe it inhabited. I could also argue that God(s) is used to explain everything intelligence could not explain.

Basically, intelligence created God, so intelligence is God. Man is God. Sacrilege?

I’d like to argue that the universe is NOT life, but rather, it is Death. This is easy to see: 75% of it is way too cold for there to be any kind of life, and the other 24.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of it is way too hot for any kind of life. However, somehow, Life came about - on at least one of its conglomerations of atoms, called a planet.

Now, the phrase, “From Dust we came to Dust we will go,” seems, IMHO, to be saying that from Death we came and to Death we will go. Yet, despite the odds, say trillions to the power of billions, Life came to be. We do not know what, how, or why it did, but, it just did. Furthermore, not only did Life come to be, but, it evolved some tiny amout of intelligence (which is probably zillions to the power of trillions) as it adheres pretty much to only the few higher forms of Life on this planet.

So, we needed something to explain how out of Death comes Life and out of Life comes Death as this is a conundrum that is unfathomable otherwise. But, we also don’t know what Death is, because we don’t know what Life is. It is not enough to say, well, Life is movement and Death is cessation of movement. Life seems to be more than that; likewise, Death seems to be more than that, especially since Death can, of itself, bring forth Life.

So, I’d say, Death is godlike. It is almost completely unexplainable; it is the “cause” of Life; it is the “cause” of itself (when things die); it is awed; Life struggles to prevent or, at least, postpone its coming; it is a part of evolution in that, upon Death other Life forms try to use what’s left to perservere in trying to postpone or prevent Death. So, the universe is Death, but Death is godlike, thus the universe is god.

JD

 

[godfree12]

I’d like to argue that the universe is NOT life, but rather, it is Death. This is easy to see: 75% of it is way too cold for there to be any kind of life, and the other 24.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of it is way too hot for any kind of life. However, somehow, Life came about - on at least one of its conglomerations of atoms, called a planet.

Now, the phrase, “From Dust we came to Dust we will go,” seems, IMHO, to be saying that from Death we came and to Death we will go. Yet, despite the odds, say trillions to the power of billions, Life came to be. We do not know what, how, or why it did, but, it just did. Furthermore, not only did Life come to be, but, it evolved some tiny amout of intelligence (which is probably zillions to the power of trillions) as it adheres pretty much to only the few higher forms of Life on this planet.

So, we needed something to explain how out of Death comes Life and out of Life comes Death as this is a conundrum that is unfathomable otherwise. But, we also don’t know what Death is, because we don’t know what Life is. It is not enough to say, well, Life is movement and Death is cessation of movement. Life seems to be more than that; likewise, Death seems to be more than that, especially since Death can, of itself, bring forth Life.

So, I’d say, Death is godlike. It is almost completely unexplainable; it is the “cause” of Life; it is the “cause” of itself (when things die); it is awed; Life struggles to prevent or, at least, postpone its coming; it is a part of evolution in that, upon Death other Life forms try to use what’s left to perservere in trying to postpone or prevent Death. So, the universe is Death, but Death is godlike, thus the universe is god.

JD

Life is Death. Death is Life. Can’t have one without the other.

Our Being is really an evolution. A revolution perhaps, but nonetheless I say evolution because because the growth of the human is an evolution of a mind, and of the body. The body grows and fades, but the individual’s contributions to humanity live for ever.

We are born as the offspring of reproductive humans, and naturally as in all animals, born with an intent of producing more offspring. Our intelligence has however distracted our bodies from that individual purpose with the purpose of developing human society as a whole: education, politics, alliances, the “social contract” etc. Humanity has, over its history, become so connected, and technically advanced, that our knowledge has outrun the present state of our quite archaic physical bodies and their need for sex, love, etc. Lust is quite illogical.

I guess what I am trying to get at is the concept of having such an advanced wealth of knowledge(we can fly to mars for God’s sake, and have eliminated many sources of discomfort with Air conditioning, heating, sanitation. Transportation etc.) causes our time on this Earth to feel quite short, as we are very aware of death. We want to do enough before we die, that we fear it, and loath the inevitability of it. It’s quite selfish.

Life, as a concept, should outgrow the common misconception of our individual existence being life. That’s like saying “a skin cell’s life is over because it died” but that is irrelevant as the being the skin cell supports naturally loses thousands of skin cells a day to “death”. Humanity is like a skin cell, like a forest, it’s purpose is to thrive,to grow. Trees die, but their contributions to the forest as a whole make them important. For without the death of an individual plant cell, branch, and tree, the forest could never spring forth from their ashes.

We are the only living things that can travel through the infinite vacuum of space; it is our responsibility to not kill ourselves, with our religious biases, or else the cycle will have to start over again, perhaps here, perhaps somewhere else in the milky way. And all will have been in VAIN. Jesus didn’t want this.

 

[Shannon9791]

We evolved from monkeys, which evolved from rats, which evolved from birds, which evolved dinosaurs, which evolved from frogs, which evolved from fish, which evolved from multi-celled organisms, which evolved from the same single celled organisms that evolved through chemical processes that gave the Earth its water, atmosphere, and oxygen rich environment. Those organisms evolved from the certain circumstances, which may have taken a million years to arise but still had a 1 in a million chance of arising, that allowed Earth to be the only planet within at least our solar system, maybe the universe, with the capability of sustaining life, as we know it. Only these circumstances: Sun, distance from sun, etc. have given Earth life.

Our intelligence evolved out of the necessity of our former barbaric state to conquer it’s challenges. Apes developed problem solving in their attempt to eat termites, and natural selection killed off the apes who didn’t adapt to the new resource of termite sustenance - who didn’t have the ability of problem solving.

The same could be said for the single celled organisms which gave the Earth its atmosphere. One cell developed out of two different elemental meteorites that perhaps crashed on Earth and perhaps further reacted with the resources present on the planet. I don’t know the exact process… And those organisms grew, died, overcame, and in the end sustained life, as we know it. Circumstance, chance, fortune, luck, or odds chose this planet, but it could be the same somewhere else in the infinite abyss.

Intelligence, which I say arose out of natural selection, developed over time to create spears, to create communities, to harvest crops, and the intelligence which gained harvesting-farming first, by way of natural selection, overcame the intelligence of hunter-gatherers.

Eventually intelligence, as we call it, found a concept that could lead them to social stability; a concept to explain some years of crop failure, and a concept of explaining their being on Earth. Intelligence founded gods of the harvest, gods of the Earth’s conception, gods of good health, gods of happiness, and gods of fertility. AND this intelligence with this acquired confidence of knowing why things were the way they were, perhaps went to war with other societies of intelligence. The confidence of gods, by way of natural selection, overcame the confidence of barbarism.

So, in our stage, monotheism has conquered polytheism, polytheism has conquered barbarism. It all seems to me like evolution by way of natural selection.

Except the next step is to realize evolution. To take hold of our evolution, and proclaim ourselves God. We, throughout history created God, created Catholicism, created the bible. Jesus created his words, and as he states: “the kingdom of heaven is at hand”.

The question I have concerning this theory of evolution that everything started from one wonderfully created single cell is wouldn’t it have to have happened more than once? If it took millions of years for 1 single celled organism to “form” what would happen when it died? If it didn’t yet have the ability to replicate, then wouldn’t the process start over again, and keep on going for millions of years until one cell divided? That’s the problem I have with the “random” evolution theory. I find it hard to believe that out of nowhere, a single celled organism popped up only to have the ability to manipulate itself to create more and more that eventually created what we call humans. Any explanation on this would be helpful.

 

[grannymh]

I
If God be so infinite and powerful, have him strike me down through the internet. SMITE ME O LORD!

I tried to follow your above request.

But God couldn’t find the “delete” key. Apparently, He was concentrating on being loving and merciful.

 

[fhansen]

Life is Death. Death is Life. Can’t have one without the other.

Our Being is really an evolution. A revolution perhaps, but nonetheless I say evolution because because the growth of the human is an evolution of a mind, and of the body. The body grows and fades, but the individual’s contributions to humanity live for ever.

We are born as the offspring of reproductive humans, and naturally as in all animals, born with an intent of producing more offspring. Our intelligence has however distracted our bodies from that individual purpose with the purpose of developing human society as a whole: education, politics, alliances, the “social contract” etc. Humanity has, over its history, become so connected, and technically advanced, that our knowledge has outrun the present state of our quite archaic physical bodies and their need for sex, love, etc. Lust is quite illogical.

I guess what I am trying to get at is the concept of having such an advanced wealth of knowledge(we can fly to mars for God’s sake, and have eliminated many sources of discomfort with Air conditioning, heating, sanitation. Transportation etc.) causes our time on this Earth to feel quite short, as we are very aware of death. We want to do enough before we die, that we fear it, and loath the inevitability of it. It’s quite selfish.

Life, as a concept, should outgrow the common misconception of our individual existence being life. That’s like saying “a skin cell’s life is over because it died” but that is irrelevant as the being the skin cell supports naturally loses thousands of skin cells a day to “death”. Humanity is like a skin cell, like a forest, it’s purpose is to thrive,to grow. Trees die, but their contributions to the forest as a whole make them important. For without the death of an individual plant cell, branch, and tree, the forest could never spring forth from their ashes.

We are the only living things that can travel through the infinite vacuum of space; it is our responsibility to not kill ourselves, with our religious biases, or else the cycle will have to start over again, perhaps here, perhaps somewhere else in the milky way. And all will have been in VAIN. Jesus didn’t want this.

Some of this has a plausible and even noble ring to it but in the final analysis doesn’t mesh with reality. Any sentient being has a natural desire for continued existence and would, in fact, be foolish and nihilistic without it.

 

[po18guy]

I would like to argue that the universe is life, and that life evolved to such a point that it became intelligent. This intelligence could not explain its being, so it concluded that God(s) had created the universe it inhabited. I could also argue that God(s) is used to explain everything intelligence could not explain.

Basically, intelligence created God, so intelligence is God. Man is God. Sacrilege?

You have it backward.

 

[JDaniel]

Life is Death. Death is Life. Can’t have one without the other.

Could be a new variation of an old song!

Our Being is really an evolution. A revolution perhaps, but nonetheless I say evolution because because the growth of the human is an evolution of a mind, and of the body. The body grows and fades, but the individual’s contributions to humanity live for ever.

I’m not sure if I agree with this.

“In biology, evolution is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. These changes are caused by a combination of three main processes: variation, reproduction, and selection.” - Wikipedia

Thus, the generally accepted deifnition of “evolution” seems to be at odds with yours, which is about the growth of individuals. Also, I believe there are millions of individuals that die and leave no enduring contributions to humanity. In their cases, what do they provide for future humanity?

We are born as the offspring of reproductive humans, and naturally as in all animals, born with an intent of producing more offspring.

But, homosexuals say that they are not born with the intent of producing more offspring. Your conception seems to leave homosexuals out.

Our intelligence has however distracted our bodies from that individual purpose with the purpose of developing human society as a whole: education, politics, alliances, the “social contract” etc. Humanity has, over its history, become so connected, and technically advanced, that our knowledge has outrun the present state of our quite archaic physical bodies and their need for sex, love, etc. Lust is quite illogical.

Lust is the seeking of gratification, of pleasure. If we did not seek gratification and pleasure would anyone really participate in sex? IOW, if it wasn’t pleasurable would we do it? I am one who doesn’t think we would.

I guess what I am trying to get at is the concept of having such an advanced wealth of knowledge(we can fly to mars for God’s sake, and have eliminated many sources of discomfort with Air conditioning, heating, sanitation. Transportation etc.) causes our time on this Earth to feel quite short, as we are very aware of death. We want to do enough before we die, that we fear it, and loath the inevitability of it. It’s quite selfish.

No doubt we fear it. I’m not sure we loath it because we want to accomplish so much. As one gets older, this impetus seems to wane. Young people seem to have a plethora of it, probably due to messianic urges.

Life, as a concept, should outgrow the common misconception of our individual existence being life. That’s like saying “a skin cell’s life is over because it died” but that is irrelevant as the being the skin cell supports naturally loses thousands of skin cells a day to “death”. Humanity is like a skin cell, like a forest, it’s purpose is to thrive,to grow. Trees die, but their contributions to the forest as a whole make them important. For without the death of an individual plant cell, branch, and tree, the forest could never spring forth from their ashes.

So you agree with me, that Death is the all-important thing. The death and decay of millions of people creates the fertilizer, if you will, of new life.

We are the only living things that can travel through the infinite vacuum of space;

But, science, quantum mechanics and physics are clearly NOT aligned with a concept of an “infinite” space, or universe.

it is our responsibility to not kill ourselves, with our religious biases, or else the cycle will have to start over again, perhaps here, perhaps somewhere else in the milky way. And all will have been in VAIN. Jesus didn’t want this.

I agree and hope that our leaders are of the same mind. The bigger problem, in my opinion, is whether Radical Islam can be swayed as it is estimated that their numbers exceed one hundred million, with new ones being recruited daily.

JD

 

[godfree12]

“In biology, evolution is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. These changes are caused by a combination of three main processes: variation, reproduction, and selection.” - Wikipedia

Thus, the generally accepted deifnition of “evolution” seems to be at odds with yours, which is about the growth of individuals. Also, I believe there are millions of individuals that die and leave no enduring contributions to humanity. In their cases, what do they provide for future humanity?

Well let’s say brain cells then are collectively evolving. So, the collective reasoning, calculated through the brain cells in a being’s mind, is evolving.

I guess we need to help those individuals evolve past their barbaric selfishness don’t we. Perhaps we could use the power of reason.

But, homosexuals say that they are not born with the intent of producing more offspring. Your conception seems to leave homosexuals out.

No comment.

Lust is the seeking of gratification, of pleasure. If we did not seek gratification and pleasure would anyone really participate in sex? IOW, if it wasn’t pleasurable would we do it? I am one who doesn’t think we would.

Hmmm. Brave New World. I think it’s an archaic desire.

So you agree with me, that Death is the all-important thing. The death and decay of millions of people creates the fertilizer, if you will, of new life.

You are still thinking of it from an individual standpoint, and I think what the human race needs to overcome is the innate selfishness this train of thought produces. It really doesn’t matter what the millions of individual people do, it matters what humanity does collectively. It’s not easy by any means, but I think that’s the only way out of greed, corrupt power, and complacent ignorance. I would call it a individual attempt at learning as much as one can, employing that learning as much as one can, and advancing humanity as much as one can. What is of utmost importance is the confidence one has in their contributions to humanity that makes death seem so irrelevant.

But, science, quantum mechanics and physics are clearly NOT aligned with a concept of an “infinite” space, or universe.

I’m pretty sure they are. There’s been enough threads on this topic already.

I agree and hope that our leaders are of the same mind. The bigger problem, in my opinion, is whether Radical Islam can be swayed as it is estimated that their numbers exceed one hundred million, with new ones being recruited daily.

They are uneducated, living in poverty, and have no future other than what Islam promises them in the afterlife. I find it very hard to blame them. What we’re doing in Iraq is a step in the right direction. Now, if the rest of the world weren’t so selfish, who knows how much progression could be achieved with their help, money, troops, infrastructure, reason etc.

 

[mercygate]

Well let’s say brain cells then are collectively evolving. So, the collective reasoning, calculated through the brain cells in a being’s mind, is evolving.

I guess we need to help those individuals evolve past their barbaric selfishness don’t we. Perhaps we could use the power of reason.

No comment.

Hmmm. Brave New World. I think it’s an archaic desire.

You are still thinking of it from an individual standpoint, and I think what the human race needs to overcome is the innate selfishness this train of thought produces. It really doesn’t matter what the millions of individual people do, it matters what humanity does collectively. It’s not easy by any means, but I think that’s the only way out of greed, corrupt power, and complacent ignorance. I would call it a individual attempt at learning as much as one can, employing that learning as much as one can, and advancing humanity as much as one can. What is of utmost importance is the confidence one has in their contributions to humanity that makes death seem so irrelevant.

I’m pretty sure they are. There’s been enough threads on this topic already.

They are uneducated, living in poverty, and have no future other than what Islam promises them in the afterlife. I find it very hard to blame them. What we’re doing in Iraq is a step in the right direction. Now, if the rest of the world weren’t so selfish, who knows how much progression could be achieved with their help, money, troops, infrastructure, reason etc.

godfree 12, perhaps it would be helpful if you were to delineate carefully for us your concept of “selfishness” and how it fits into your weltanschauung.

 

[jkiernan56]

Basically, intelligence created God, so intelligence is God. Man is God. Sacrilege?

Utter Nonsense.
Garbage In = Garbage Out

 

[grannymh]

Utter Nonsense.
Garbage In = Garbage Out

Amen!

I’m out of here…

 

[mercygate]

Re-thinking the OP, intelligence did not “create” God. Intelligent human beings, reflecting on the created universe and observing the power of human intelligence to know and to interpret the objects and phenomena of perception, discerned that creation must be the product of intelligence.

 

[Michael_David]

Re-thinking the OP, intelligence did not “create” God. Intelligent human beings, reflecting on the created universe and observing the power of human intelligence to know and to interpret the objects and phenomena of perception, discerned that creation must be the product of intelligence.

A bit like the chip in this computer. It takes data (observations) in and sorts it out to be the picture on the screen. Can the chip produce anything on it’s own without (name removed by moderator)ut… to put out again? What goes into the chip is not the chip and what comes out of the chip is not the chip, the chip is merely the processor of external elements to external elements.

The chip (intelligence) founded nothing all alone by itself sitting on the desk doing nothing, it needs (name removed by moderator)ut before it can act toward an output. If intelligence founded God, it came from an outside source to enter the mind and come out as thoughts. Intelligence does not operate in a vacuum. As such it produces product of intelligence by (name removed by moderator)ut and observations as Mercygate stated.

Then, coming from outside of the intelligence, man cannot be God due to having intelligence, rather just have the realization (output) that God exits… as He was processed by the chip (intelligence).

 

[RedSoxFan]

I would like to argue that the universe is life, and that life evolved to such a point that it became intelligent. This intelligence could not explain its being, so it concluded that God(s) had created the universe it inhabited. I could also argue that God(s) is used to explain everything intelligence could not explain.

Basically, intelligence created God, so intelligence is God. Man is God. Sacrilege?

Yeah, but the real killer is that it is intellectually bankrupt. To the point it makes me cry.:crying: