Intelligent Design, Edward Feser's views

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The hip, knee and jaw have specific designs, because they work alongside many other working parts. Tell me how these could evolve without intelligent design?

It is nothing like water taking the shape of the pond or randomly shuffling cards.
 
IWantGod said:
I think most Thomists, accept for perhaps the odd one or two, are fine with natural evolution.
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Really? The article didn’t say that at all. Also, I believe that the folks I know who have studied the Summa are not fine with natural evolution. Take a look at ST Part I, Q65, it doesn’t really line up with natural (uncontrolled) evolution.
 
Variations exist within nature. Traits and forms that have better efficiency (or more specifically the alleles that give rise to them) and exist in an evironment where there are selective pressures out-compete less efficient forms for resources and in reproduction, tending towards increasing specialization and apparent refinement in the existing populations over billions if not trillions of permutations. Ever study allele drift?
 
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Eric_Hyom said:
The hip, knee and jaw have specific designs, because they work alongside many other working parts.
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It can help to look at the fossil sequence, it’s often a lot more clear how things can change over time to have new function.
 
Bradskii said:
The pond example has been used before but in a slightly different way.

People astounded by the fact that conditions are exactly right for us is like a pond considering its own position and being amazed that the hole in which it is situated is exactly the right shape and size to accomodate it.
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That is like saying there is a mould for a hip, you just poor the stuff in, and hey presto; one hip.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
The hip, knee and jaw have specific designs, because they work alongside many other working parts. Tell me how these could evolve without intelligent design?

It is nothing like water taking the shape of the pond or randomly shuffling cards.
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It never ceases to amaze me that people who have no understanding of how evolution works will still deny that it does. You either haven’t the ability to understand evolution or do not have the inclination. Your questions are evidence of that. Either way, I am disinclined to waste my time explaining the subject to you.

It would be like trying to describe how an iphone works to a 16th century peasant. His attitude would be: ‘I have no idea what you are talking about - it is obviously magic’.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
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Bradskii:
The pond example has been used before but in a slightly different way.

People astounded by the fact that conditions are exactly right for us is like a pond considering its own position and being amazed that the hole in which it is situated is exactly the right shape and size to accomodate it.
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That is like saying there is a mould for a hip, you just poor the stuff in, and hey presto; one hip.
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Good grief…

That’s an analogy for people’s attitude to the fine tuning argument. It has nothing to do with evolution. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
 
Wesrock said:
selective pressures out-compete less efficient forms for resources and in reproduction, tending towards increasing specialization and apparent refinement in the existing populations over billions if not trillions of permutations.
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And that of course would have had to have played a role in every plant and animal in existence that we have on the planet today…what do you think odds would be ?
 
There is no evidence material forces can produce consciousness.
 
Bradskii said:
it is obviously magic’.
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Yes, that is the atheist creation myth - everything came from no-thing. Magic! To believe in it is blind faith, more than as the Pope once said “us poor Christians ever had to believe”.

My faith is based on reason, logic and evidence.
 
If you fell out of a tree would you rather have no wing or half a wing?

Ever seen videos of how flightless birds can use their wings to climb inclines they otherwise can’t?
 
Dan123 said:
Ever seen videos of how flightless birds can use their wings to climb inclines they otherwise can’t?
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It is a learned behavior. Finding additional uses for my finger is not evolution.
 
So now that they have no specific use for wings, are those wings free to adapt to better serve one or more of the “additional uses” they find for them?
 
Techno2000 said:
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Wesrock:
selective pressures out-compete less efficient forms for resources and in reproduction, tending towards increasing specialization and apparent refinement in the existing populations over billions if not trillions of permutations.
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And that of course would have had to have played a role in every plant and animal in existence that we have on the planet today…what do you think odds would be ?
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For something that has already happened? 1.
 
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