That is not my logic, that is ID’s logic. ID asserts that complex things require a designer. I merely pointed out that IDs designer itself required a meta-designer by IDs own logic.Let’s go with the logic of the thread title:
(1) Iphones are pretty complex
(2) Iphones have a designer (humans)
(3) Humans are even more complex than Iphones
(4) Yet, humans have no designer!
(5) Therefore ID is self-refuting
How sick is that? We are more complex than something that has a designer!! Yet we have no designer! My mind is blown.
Right, infinite regress is not tenable. We agree. The uncaused cause is.If the designer was designed, then you have an infinite regress. If the designer was not designed then design is not required for a functional complex entity.
Either way ID loses.
Humans are designed to be rational.yet design us to be irrational.
There are many metaphors in verses. The day beside God is not kind of our worldly days. That verses need being interpreted correctly(I am not Christian scholar!). Six days perhaps point six main stages of universe and earth formed. God act and work by laws in universe. So that verse point that all laws and acts are from God in universe.Yet another thing the omnipotent God can’t do: sleep.
On the seventh day… Who can know the correct meaning(If that is not an added interpretation to verse!)
God is always outside of time. God create the time and matter.
“Word became flesh”. My interpretation: Jesus was word of God. That mean Jesus was born and created by a word “be”. When God say “be!” God’s omnipower create that. Jesus was born without a father by a miraculous way.
God allow people to choice good or bad and faith or rejecting. That is God’s plan. Solipsism is not rational but decision to select such thought is rational.I realize that ID isn’t supposed to be referring to God, but even so it seems somewhat problematic that a Designer would expect us to make a rational decision about His existence, and yet design us to be irrational.
How does that make any sense?
God expects us to make a rational decision, and yet designed us to be irrational. It can’t really be argued that we’re all rational, because we all disagree. I’m a solipsist for example, do you think that solipsism is rational? If so then why aren’t you a solipsist? Or are all beliefs rational to some degree? If so, then how are your beliefs any more rational than mine?
So even if there is a designer, the Catholic understanding of that designer would seem to be seriously flawed.
We could all be programmed to act perfectly rational. Would you favor that?And yet they don’t act rationally. Why do we constantly act irrationally if we were not only designed to be rational, but our very souls depend upon it?
Seems like pretty inept designing to me.
God’s causation changes
You’re conflatingIf God does not change, then God did not part the sea,
Humans are free to act rational or absurd. We are so perfectly designed that we can do what else we wish. Ofcurse we are responsible because of our irrational(evil or fault) acts!Humans are designed to be rational.
We all could be programmed to love God. Is that OK with you?Free will and rationality aren’t mutually exclusive. I’m sure that you think of yourself as a perfect example of this. So why aren’t we all rational, if rationality is so important? If those who believe in God are rational, and those who don’t believe in God are irrational, and we’re all designed to be rational, then why don’t we all believe in God? In fact, shouldn’t we all believe in the same God?
What do you mean by “Specified complex intelligence”. And what do you mean by the idea that it can appear without intelligent design?Specified complex intelligence can appear without being intelligently designed.
That is a question which perhaps we cannot know for ever. We cannot know or examine God. That is like such those questions: Why God did not provide that all people would get into Heaven? Or non of people commit sin!believe in one specific God, a lot of other people don’t, why not, if we’re all equally rational?
But your critique of ID requires one to concede Iphones have a designer yet that humans (more complex than Iphones) do not, which defies all logic.That is not my argument failing, it is my criticism of ID’s argument succeeding.
It is not…In other-words i don’t think that physics by itself is the sufficient cause of intelligence.
Its ironic that you mention God parting the waters, because when Moses asked God who he is, God responded “I AM THAT I AM”then God did not part the sea, something else did it. Any action requires a mental change from “I will act” to “I am acting” to “I have acted”.
He could have programmed us all to believe in Him. As a parent, would forcing your child to love you be really love? Would you be satisfied with that?Why would God do that, design us with not quite an adequate amount of rationality to believe in Him?
Personally i think there is a prejudice against God as an idea before we ever get into the question of whether belief in God should be the effect of a rational mind.Why would God do that, design us with not quite an adequate amount of rationality to believe in Him?
We always discover new species. But non of species come into being from scratch. And non of them emerged any more after became extinct. Perhaps we can generate them from some rest of seeds.Could you point a sample for evolution? Do you have ever hear that a new species emerged by evolution?
An uncaused cause is not designed. If the uncaused cause is God, then ID has failed as science. If God is omniscient then He is also complex and ID fails on its own terms, because something more complex than Wikipedia exists and is not designed.Right, infinite regress is not tenable. We agree. The uncaused cause is.
Your position is changing.An uncaused cause is not designed. If the uncaused cause is God, then ID has failed as science. If God is omniscient then He is also complex and ID fails on its own terms, because something more complex than Wikipedia exists and is not designed.
As my OP says, ID has failed on its own terms.
The evolved brain is not a reliable truth detector.Evolution favors diversity even if it means that some of us won’t survive.