Interested in the Church, but cannot accept some of their beliefs

[po18guy]

if you truly cant ever see yourself accepting papal infallability then move along. I mean no offense but the last thing catholicism needs is another “catholic” who wants to do things their own way. I pray you come to see the truth but until such a time as you can accept something you cannot imagine you will only be frustrated

My faith did not come alive until a couple of things happened. One of them was assent to the entirety of Church teaching. The other was forcing myself to be docile to the Holy Spirit. Then, big things began to occur.

 

[ignatius777]

My faith did not come alive until a couple of things happened. One of them was assent to the entirety of Church teaching. The other was forcing myself to be docile to the Holy Spirit. Then, big things began to occur.

Amen

 

[fbl9]

In the parable of the Vinedressers St.Matthew 21;33-46 Jesus speaks against the Pharisees and Cheif Priests.He told them that the vine yard will be given to others to tend to.
What does the vine yard refer to?
God set these men, the Pharisees and Cheif Priests, as the care takers of God’s revealing of Himself to man.

 

[rinnie]

The Catholic Church has been a topic of fascination for me for some time now. I have studied their doctrines, and I have been interested in converting at various times (I was raised Southern Baptist, FYI), and keep coming back to that interest no matter how hard I try to push it away. I am fascinated by the tradition, the ritual, the crucifixes, the statues, the rosary, you name it. However, there are a few doctrines I am having trouble with.

I cannot and most likely will never accept papal infallibility (and yes, I know infallibility is not the same as impeccability). I would accept the pope as the leader of the Church, but would not blindly follow everything he says.

I see nothing wrong with birth control, as long as no abortion is involved. I am mostly against abortion, but believe it may be a necessary evil in a some cases (e.g. mother’s life in danger).

I believe the church should allow priests to marry, and ordain women as well. I also believe communion should be offered to all baptized Christians and not just Catholics.

In short, I am more likely to follow the dictates of my conscience than those of Rome, in the cases where they conflict. My beliefs would probably not be too dissimilar from those of Hans Kung. I apologize if this offends anyone, but I am trying to be honest.

From what I’ve read, I would fit right in with a sizable majority of American Catholics, but then again most of them grew up in it, as opposed to converting.

I am not interested in debating or arguing with anyone regarding the topics I mentioned. What I want to know is this: Would you advise that I enroll in RCIA and seek conversion anyways? Or would you tell me to go find another church (perhaps Episcopalian)?

Another way to phrase the question: Which would be the greater sin, to convert without total acceptance, or to never convert at all?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Okay lets do the abortion one. I too when I was younger thought if someone was raped why should or would they have to have the baby. More pain in their life.

Then one day the Church teaching hit me like a ton of bricks. No matter how it happened, rather violent or not it is a poor inocent baby. Who are we to say you cannot live.

Its like taking one violent act and commiting another. When push comes to shove and you forget for one moment how the baby was made, its still a inocent loving beautiful baby. Look at the People who would and could love that baby, that baby is a answer from God to someones prayers.

So when I looked at the reality of it all, I thought, As usual the Church teaching is correct. There is never a reason to kill a inocent baby. Although we can think of many, I still could not find one reason good enough to take that human life, that inocent baby out of this world.

Hope that helps.

 

[jam070406]

The Catholic Church has been a topic of fascination for me for some time now. I have studied their doctrines, and I have been interested in converting at various times (I was raised Southern Baptist, FYI), and keep coming back to that interest no matter how hard I try to push it away. I am fascinated by the tradition, the ritual, the crucifixes, the statues, the rosary, you name it. However, there are a few doctrines I am having trouble with.

I cannot and most likely will never accept papal infallibility (and yes, I know infallibility is not the same as impeccability). I would accept the pope as the leader of the Church, but would not blindly follow everything he says.

I see nothing wrong with birth control, as long as no abortion is involved. I am mostly against abortion, but believe it may be a necessary evil in a some cases (e.g. mother’s life in danger).

I believe the church should allow priests to marry, and ordain women as well. I also believe communion should be offered to all baptized Christians and not just Catholics.

In short, I am more likely to follow the dictates of my conscience than those of Rome, in the cases where they conflict. My beliefs would probably not be too dissimilar from those of Hans Kung. I apologize if this offends anyone, but I am trying to be honest.

From what I’ve read, I would fit right in with a sizable majority of American Catholics, but then again most of them grew up in it, as opposed to converting.

I am not interested in debating or arguing with anyone regarding the topics I mentioned. What I want to know is this: Would you advise that I enroll in RCIA and seek conversion anyways? Or would you tell me to go find another church (perhaps Episcopalian)?

Another way to phrase the question: Which would be the greater sin, to convert without total acceptance, or to never convert at all?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

I want the tradition, ritual, crucifixes, rosary etc. too. It’s too bad the sizeable majority you mentioned don’t. They’d rather be like the ecclesiastical community you’d be leaving.

 

[ufamtobie]

The Catholic Church has been a topic of fascination for me for some time now. I have studied their doctrines, and I have been interested in converting at various times (I was raised Southern Baptist, FYI), and keep coming back to that interest no matter how hard I try to push it away. I am fascinated by the tradition, the ritual, the crucifixes, the statues, the rosary, you name it. However, there are a few doctrines I am having trouble with.

I cannot and most likely will never accept papal infallibility (and yes, I know infallibility is not the same as impeccability). I would accept the pope as the leader of the Church, but would not blindly follow everything he says.

I see nothing wrong with birth control, as long as no abortion is involved. I am mostly against abortion, but believe it may be a necessary evil in a some cases (e.g. mother’s life in danger).

I believe the church should allow priests to marry, and ordain women as well. I also believe communion should be offered to all baptized Christians and not just Catholics.

In short, I am more likely to follow the dictates of my conscience than those of Rome, in the cases where they conflict. My beliefs would probably not be too dissimilar from those of Hans Kung. I apologize if this offends anyone, but I am trying to be honest.

From what I’ve read, I would fit right in with a sizable majority of American Catholics, but then again most of them grew up in it, as opposed to converting.

I am not interested in debating or arguing with anyone regarding the topics I mentioned. What I want to know is this: Would you advise that I enroll in RCIA and seek conversion anyways? Or would you tell me to go find another church (perhaps Episcopalian)?

Another way to phrase the question: Which would be the greater sin, to convert without total acceptance, or to never convert at all?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

NeedingTruth,

Who’s Truth are you looking for, your Truth or the Church’s Truth?

The Pope Has been given the Authority by Jesus Christ to bind and loose all things in heaven or on earth, this Authority has been handed down by His Successors beginning with the Apostles. So yes, the Pope has infallibility regarding Church Teaching… No other Church has this Authority, only the Church Jesus Christ Established over 2000 years ago… but if the Pope would tell us to jump off a building, Come on now that would be Wrong.

Needthruth, Heres the Truth, Birth control and abortion is one and the same. How So you may ask…Well they both stop lives from coming into the world. As you may know Jesus created us to get married and bring life into the world, now saying that, would Jesus Be happy if one uses birth Control? Birth control Pills and abortion is Wrong even if the life of the mother is at stake. Here a mother who life is at stake, play the role of God, in deciding to kill, yes, kill her baby to save her own life… Needtruth, have you not read (Mark 8:34-35)And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35For whosoever will save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel, shall save it. Yes, any Mother in this situation would have to Take up Her Cross, and let God decide who dies and who lives and if it be God choice that both shall live or die Blessed be his name. We must all carry our Cross no matter how hard it may be.

Needtruth, again you are seeking your truth and not God’s truth re: Priest to be married and ordain women as well… All the Apostles left their families for the sake of the kingdom of God…Needtruth, have you not read the Scriptures Where Peter stated that he and all the Apostles left all things, listen with your heart what Jesus told Peter: Mathew 18: 28Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. 29Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake, 30Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Needtruth, Now Regarding ordain women, was their any women apostles among the Chosen 12 Apostles? No! Needtruth that being said, I tell you if it is not broke, don’t try to fix, because you will not be fixing it, you will be destroying it.

To be a True Catholic you must accept it 100% You can not come into the Catholic Church wanting your own truths, wanting it done your way or it is the highway,it does not work that way. My suggestion to you is pray to the Holy Spirit that you may accept all the Teachings of the Catholic Church the only Church proven by fact, that it is the Church Jesus Christ Founded. You are on your way to the Truth because the Holy Spirit guided you here to CAF.

Ufam Tobie

 

[Loobyloo0209]

Needing Truth…I know exactly where you’re coming from as I have had the same calling…and the same “yeah but…” Questions as you are also…the best piece of advice I was given on this forum which helped the most was “Don’t put pressure on yourself by jumping in”…its ok to question and its okay to not be where you feel you ought to be! I can’t give quotes, biblical references or reasons why you’re in the right place…I can only speak as me…someone who was full of “yeah buts” but am getting all those questions answered right here!! Stick with it and know that you’re not on your own!! Good luck on your journey… Leah

 

[Offdoodykcrn]

The Catholic Church has been a topic of fascination for me for some time now. I have studied their doctrines, and I have been interested in converting at various times (I was raised Southern Baptist, FYI), and keep coming back to that interest no matter how hard I try to push it away. I am fascinated by the tradition, the ritual, the crucifixes, the statues, the rosary, you name it. However, there are a few doctrines I am having trouble with.

I have also considered the Church, it is what brought me to the CAF - and although I have decided I don’t fit in the Church, I continue to enjoy the discussion and friendship I have found here.

Unless you change your mind about your conflicting beliefs, the question stands simply: Is your desire to join the Church greater than your desire to (at least outwardly) keep your beliefs to yourself and say that you agree with the Church - when you really don’t. There are many Catholics that believe and defend all the tenets of Church doctrine. There may be an equal number that have opinions that differ with Church doctrine, but they keep quiet about those differences when they choose to do so.

Some call these people ‘Cafeteria Catholics’, my mom calls herself a ‘Far From Rome Catholic’. Is it right? Is it what God wants? Is it sufficient to hope that you are, or will eventually become ‘Catholic enough’? Only you can truly know the answer to that question, regardless of how you answer the required questions should you join the Church. I understand the appeal, there are times when I wish I ‘fit in’, but I just don’t.

I pray you find your answer, and no matter what that might be, or where that may take you - I pray you find peace in God’s love.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry for taking so long to reply back on this thread. I wanted to thank everyone for their honest and informative responses. I will take these answers into account as I consider whether or not to try out RCIA.

Get hold of the USA Catechism for adults, hard copy and Audio…look through that, it has stories of Saints and is more readable than the Universal Cathechism…

 

[PRmerger]

Unless you change your mind about your conflicting beliefs, the question stands simply: Is your desire to join the Church greater than your desire to (at least outwardly) keep your beliefs to yourself and say that you agree with the Church - when you really don’t.

I want to caution anyone who reads the above: THIS IS A BAD PARADIGM TO ESPOUSE.

This is the essence of creating a god in one’s own image.

One ought to find the Church that Christ established, and then conform your beliefs to this Church.

For it is absolutely true that if God exists, He is going to command beliefs from us that are His, not make beliefs that conform to our own.

There are many Catholics that believe and defend all the tenets of Church doctrine. There may be an equal number that have opinions that differ with Church doctrine, but they keep quiet about those differences when they choose to do so.

This is true. :sad_yes:

Some call these people ‘Cafeteria Catholics’, my mom calls herself a ‘Far From Rome Catholic’. Is it right? Is it what God wants?

 

[Porknpie]

I want to caution anyone who reads the above: THIS IS A BAD PARADIGM TO ESPOUSE.

This is the essence of creating a god in one’s own image.

One ought to find the Church that Christ established, and then conform your beliefs to this Church.

For it is absolutely true that if God exists, He is going to command beliefs from us that are His, not make beliefs that conform to our own.

This is true. :sad_yes:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0ld1kpZAm1qbgytb.gif

I second that.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0ld1kpZAm1qbgytb.gif

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

To the OP, now that you have aquired a knowledge of what the Roman Catholic Church does not teach and a misinterpretation about “infallibility”, abortion, contraception etc.

Be true and fair to yourself and learn from the Catholic Church what she believes, practices about those things you have a misinterpretation and misunderstanding of the subjects you disagree with.

For starters pick up a CCC (catechism of the Catholic Church) and review those topics of concern you may have about what the Catholic Church really teaches, then attend an R.C.I.A class. Or set up a meeting with your local parish priest who can interpret for you what the CCC teaches and reveals through sacred scripture.

Peace be with you

 

[Offdoodykcrn]

I want to caution anyone who reads the above: THIS IS A BAD PARADIGM TO ESPOUSE.

Respectfully, no - this is simply the choice anyone - considering joining the Church that has difficulty accepting all of Catholic Church doctrine - must make.

This is the essence of creating a god in one’s own image.

No - this is the accusation anyone who questions Church doctrine aloud must face - which is perhaps why they choose, at times, to be silent.

I will not engage in discussion about those issues that have kept me from joining the Church, for it is not my desire to sway or challenge anyone’s faith. I will say that positions founded in ‘All or Nothing’ leave very little room for reconciliation.

 

[pablope]

No - this is the accusation anyone who questions Church doctrine aloud must face - which is perhaps why they choose, at times, to be silent.

I will not engage in discussion about those issues that have kept me from joining the Church, for it is not my desire to sway or challenge anyone’s faith. I will say that positions founded in ‘All or Nothing’ leave very little room for reconciliation.

Recently, I came across this very beautiful song…youtube.com/watch?v=T281lL_6e44

But there is a catholic version and a protestant version…ask yourself…why is that?

Why are there two separated understandings…a Catholic one and a protestant one?

Should reconciliation be based on the truth of Christ…instead of the truth as we see it?

If it is as we see it…how can there be reconciliation? Are we then not making our own rules instead?

 

[CopticChristian]

.

Respectfully, no - this is simply the choice anyone - considering joining the Church that has difficulty accepting all of Catholic Church doctrine - must make.

Off, as a Nurse, you will agree that when you chose to be a Nurse, you did not select which classes to take, which rotations to do and certainly which patients to work with. You did have the opportunity to choose where you worked after licensing and that is your peragative.

Joining the Church is no different. You either choose what you believe to be true or not true. It is all or nothing. Are you suggesting that if the Church has value and that value is determined by other than ourselves that we bargain with what we accept as true or not true?

No - this is the accusation anyone who questions Church doctrine aloud must face - which is perhaps why they choose, at times, to be silent.

I disagree. Many challenge Church Doctrine. Many Children challenge their parents. Those that challenged Church Doctrine in time, challenged and repented, challenged and left in silence or challenged and left kicking and screaming.

I will not engage in discussion about those issues that have kept me from joining the Church, for it is not my desire to sway or challenge anyone’s faith. I will say that positions founded in ‘All or Nothing’ leave very little room for reconciliation

Too late. You have already done that and now your choice is understand that you too have…

challenged and can repent in silence
challenge and not repent vocally/writing
chalenge and repent vocally/writing
challenge and not repent/vocally writing…

What is it you might choose to do is known only to you and shall be seen in further postings…

 

[manualman]

1. I cannot and most likely will never accept papal infallibility (and yes, I know infallibility is not the same as impeccability). I would accept the pope as the leader of the Church, but would not blindly follow everything he says.
2. I see nothing wrong with birth control, as long as no abortion is involved. I am mostly against abortion, but believe it may be a necessary evil in a some cases (e.g. mother’s life in danger).
3. I believe the church should allow priests to marry, and ordain women as well. I also believe communion should be offered to all baptized Christians and not just Catholics.

That’s it? That’s a pretty short list for a Southern Baptist! Nice work so far.

1. Nobody says you have to follow blindly. Follow informed and reasoned instead. Perhaps easy for me to say because I’ve worked through my list. This one is easy once you’ve done that, so skip it and move on for now.
2. So you think it is mere coincidence that every country on Earth in which contraception is widely socially respectable and available has a negative total fertility rate? (source CIA World Factbook online) In other words, contraception leads to long term population collapse. Catholic teaching is that the nature of what sex IS is damaged when it is intentionally sterilized. Given the empirical evidence, it’s worth looking into further. Some find him overly sensational, but I think Christopher West’s “Good News About Sex & Marriage” is a great intro to catholic sexual morality. Worth a look if you actually have an open mind on the matter.
3. These are really three different issues. Priests aren’t hatched, they grow up as boys like anybody else. They get to choose if they will get married or not BEFFORE they decide to accept a call to the priesthood. Nobody is coerced.

Women and the sacrament of Holy Orders have never mixed in christianity until a few protestants gave it a go in the last 50 years. Contrary to popular assertions, the ancient world at the time of Christ was awash in priestesses in the many competing religions of the day. It wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow in the Gentile world had the Holy Spirit willed it to happen. And yet it didn’t. Consider this: is our society overall today really that much wiser and saner when it comes to the meaning of human sexuality than all the other 20 centuries of christian history combined? Or is the trend to homogenizing the sexes a modern fad related to the secular culture attempting to invade the church? Worth thinking about if you can turn your cultural programming off for a moment.

Communion for any believer makes perfect sense if you see communion like a Southern Baptist (a useful symbol that points to a truth, but nothing more). This is also why Baptists throw leftover communion bread out after the service and we place it in a gold vessel and lock it in an ornate tabernacle inside an entire building dedicated for that pupose. We see it fundamentally differently. To us, communion isn’t just a symbol that points to a truth. We understand that the host IS the body and blood of Christ. From the time of consecration to the time the tabernacle closes afterwards, we are supernaturally transcending time and space and being present at the moment of Calvary when Christ gave his very life to save us. We receive his very flesh and blood into our own body to nourish as and as a vow to join ourselves to His sacrifice fully and completely. It is unbelievably inappropriate to have these two kinds of people receiving the host at the same time and have the gall to call it “communion.” It’s only communion if the recipients are actually communing with God together. Attempting to use the outward commonality to get to true communion while it doesn’t, in fact, exist is simply not appropriate.

So I’d say you are not yet ready to be received into the Church, but should keep looking and praying and thinking. The best resource I’ve yet found for those interested in catholicism from the outside is “Catholicism for Dummies.” Lots of info, not too much jargon.

I do hope you look further. It’s not worshipping God to go looking for a religion that fits your views. That’s worshipping yourself. Ask God to reveal Himself to you, then conform yourself to HIM. That’s worshipping God.

 

[PRmerger]

Respectfully, no - this is simply the choice anyone - considering joining the Church that has difficulty accepting all of Catholic Church doctrine - must make.

No one considering joining the Church ought to say he has communion with us when, in truth, he doesn’t. That is a lie.

That is equivalent to a man professing before God that he is committed to his bride at the wedding ceremony, when he actually is not.

No - this is the accusation anyone who questions Church doctrine aloud must face - which is perhaps why they choose, at times, to be silent.

There is nothing wrong with questioning, Offdoody. But one must seek answers. And one must give religious assent to the teachngs of the Church.

As Cardinal Newman said, “Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt, for a man may be annoyed that he cannot work out a mathematical problem, without doubting that it admits an answer.”

 

[Offdoodykcrn]

Off, as a Nurse, you will agree that when you chose to be a Nurse, you did not select which classes to take, which rotations to do and certainly which patients to work with. You did have the opportunity to choose where you worked after licensing and that is your peragative.

Joining the Church is no different. You either choose what you believe to be true or not true. It is all or nothing. Are you suggesting that if the Church has value and that value is determined by other than ourselves that we bargain with what we accept as true or not true?

Dear Coptic,

It is an interesting correlation - my choice to become a nurse, and my choice (for now - because I strive to keep my mind open) not to become Catholic.

I became a nurse because I hate suffering, and I knew that I possessed the drive, intellect, and dull sense of smell required to make a difference and help people who are suffering.

My choice not to become Catholic has nothing to do with my love of God. I am very certain about my beliefs, and my faith in God has never wavered. During the most difficult times in my life (and there have been a fair number), it has been God’s love that saved me. For those that belong to the Church and do not struggle as I do, God has blessed you. It would be so much easier to fully embrace the Church without these persistent internal arguments I have with Church doctrine.

Will my struggle resolve during my lifetime? I don’t know, but I will continue to work on it, and I thank all of my friends at the CAF that continue to show compassion, that challenge my precepts and welcome me with all my faults and failings.

 

[Richca]

The Catholic Church has been a topic of fascination for me for some time now. I have studied their doctrines, and I have been interested in converting at various times (I was raised Southern Baptist, FYI), and keep coming back to that interest no matter how hard I try to push it away. I am fascinated by the tradition, the ritual, the crucifixes, the statues, the rosary, you name it. However, there are a few doctrines I am having trouble with.

I cannot and most likely will never accept papal infallibility (and yes, I know infallibility is not the same as impeccability). I would accept the pope as the leader of the Church, but would not blindly follow everything he says.

I see nothing wrong with birth control, as long as no abortion is involved. I am mostly against abortion, but believe it may be a necessary evil in a some cases (e.g. mother’s life in danger).

I believe the church should allow priests to marry, and ordain women as well. I also believe communion should be offered to all baptized Christians and not just Catholics.

In short, I am more likely to follow the dictates of my conscience than those of Rome, in the cases where they conflict. My beliefs would probably not be too dissimilar from those of Hans Kung. I apologize if this offends anyone, but I am trying to be honest.

From what I’ve read, I would fit right in with a sizable majority of American Catholics, but then again most of them grew up in it, as opposed to converting.

I am not interested in debating or arguing with anyone regarding the topics I mentioned. What I want to know is this: Would you advise that I enroll in RCIA and seek conversion anyways? Or would you tell me to go find another church (perhaps Episcopalian)?

Another way to phrase the question: Which would be the greater sin, to convert without total acceptance, or to never convert at all?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

NeedingTruth: I will pray for your full conversion to the Catholic faith. For catholics believe that the Catholic Church is the one true church of Christ and it is God’s will that all men come to the knowledge of the truth and become full members of the Church. It is a wonderful grace from God that you are fascinated with the Catholic Church and that you cannot get rid of this interest.

A few thoughts on some of the Church’s doctrines that you have difficulty with. We believe or have faith in all that the Church proposes for our belief not because any man told us so but because Christ has revealed these teachings through His Church. Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit will guide us to all truth. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit on the Church at Pentacost and the Holy Spirit will be with the Church until the end of the world. The Catholic faith is not something unreasonable, the faith didn’t come out of thin air. No, it is based on historical records and facts and God’s revelation such as the history of the Jewish people, the historical Jesus, and the history of the Church. Faith means that we submit our minds and wills to God who reveals to us the substance of our faith through His Church. For God can neither deceive or be deceived yet our own minds can deceive us.

I think that before you begin RCIA you need to tell yourself that you will submit to all the Church’s teachings whether you understand them or not. For this is what it means to become a member of the Church: that you will submit your mind and will to all that the Chuch proposes for our belief because it is God who is revealing these truths through His Church. I’m not saying that you have to have perfect faith to begin RCIA but at least an implicit desire to hold to all the Church’s teachings. God will not let you down if you continue to seach for Him and this interest you have in the Catholic Church is definitely a grace from Him.

You say that you have interest in the rosary. I recommend that you pray the rosary every day, at least 5 decades, and ask Our Lady to help and guide you. Mary will not let you down. She will lead you to the truth and her son Jesus. Faith is a supernatural gift from God and we grow in faith through prayer.

God bless!

 

[PRmerger]

My choice not to become Catholic has nothing to do with my love of God. I am very certain about my beliefs, and my faith in God has never wavered. During the most difficult times in my life (and there have been a fair number), it has been God’s love that saved me. For those that belong to the Church and do not struggle as I do, God has blessed you. It would be so much easier to fully embrace the Church without these persistent internal arguments I have with Church doctrine.

I understand the struggle to fully embrace Church teachings.

However, I will tell you that if you are in a church that happens to conform to all your personal beliefs, then you are in a church modeled after the Almighty Self, rather than the Almighty.

If you can’t say, “I personally believe, but the Chruch says, so I have changed my views to the Church’s”, then I humbly submit that you are indeed modeling a church after your own self.

For God is, naturally, going to demand lots of things of humanity that just doesn’t appeal to our own personal views.

If you can’t say that there’s a view of God’s that you don’t agree with, then it’s probable that you’re trying to find a god that matches your own views.