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Bwtby
Guest
Yes, Jesus Christ is the only reason that separates Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Still, it’s the same God we all believe in. I don’t see the betrayal.
- Status
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KathleenGee
Guest
Our faith in Jesus Christ is that He is the Living Word of God…
In the Old Testament, the Lord said, “I Am Who Am”. He said, “Let there be light”, and according to Catholic teachings, the Lord created the world through Jesus Christ, the light of the world.
Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of revelation. He is the one Who makes all things new. He is the one Who makes us one with the Father and Holy Spirit.
Our Catholic faith rests on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and Islam’s Christ did not do this.
Christ is Prophet, King, and Anointed One, and we who draw on His life, extend His presence into the world, and work to sanctify it in union with Him. He forgives us through the sacraments.
The Church does not impose faith on others, and Christ’s final words were to forgive others, and it is really the only divine work we human sinners can do.
Finally, Christ was a Jew. We must always hold the Jewish people in gratitude for giving us the Word of God in Scripture and the Psalms, for giving us Christ, and for giving us Mary and the Apostles. We continue to reflect at every Mass the salvation history of the Jewish people and can never abandon them.
In the Old Testament, the Lord said, “I Am Who Am”. He said, “Let there be light”, and according to Catholic teachings, the Lord created the world through Jesus Christ, the light of the world.
Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of revelation. He is the one Who makes all things new. He is the one Who makes us one with the Father and Holy Spirit.
Our Catholic faith rests on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and Islam’s Christ did not do this.
Christ is Prophet, King, and Anointed One, and we who draw on His life, extend His presence into the world, and work to sanctify it in union with Him. He forgives us through the sacraments.
The Church does not impose faith on others, and Christ’s final words were to forgive others, and it is really the only divine work we human sinners can do.
Finally, Christ was a Jew. We must always hold the Jewish people in gratitude for giving us the Word of God in Scripture and the Psalms, for giving us Christ, and for giving us Mary and the Apostles. We continue to reflect at every Mass the salvation history of the Jewish people and can never abandon them.
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tomarin
Guest
Good point. Those Ahmadis are having a rough time of it, from what I’ve seen on the BBC. Makes me
and 
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tomarin
Guest
Wow. Big topic.
We are praying to the same God, the one in whose image we were all made including Muslims (and we should take note of that in our dealings with them), but that does not mean that the two religions can be equated. Christians believe in original sin, Christ’s deity, his incarnation, his death and resurrection to redeem us for our sins and a number of other things that have no correspondence in Islam; that wouldn’t even be comprehensible to a Muslim.
Muslims don’t believe in the Holy Trinity, and because they don’t believe that Jesus was God, combined with their emphasis on God’s transcendence, God is farther removed from human perception than in Christianity, where he has entered into human history and shown his face to us. This distance explains why the person of Muhammad while not a deity and not worshipped as such per se is so big a part of the Islamic worldview. He fills a void that is created when God withdraws from human understanding.
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men0wjv
Guest
This is true. Barzakh means ‘in-between’ or ‘boundary.’ When it was first mentioned I thought of Islamic metaphysics; what is between the Absolute Being of God and Absolute nothingness i.e. creation, rather than eschatology. Verse 23:100 mentions a barzakh (normally translated as barrier) in reference to non believers being unable to return to the Earth to ‘act righteously.’ After the soul leaves the body Muslims believe that their soul will be in the ‘grave’ which will be either a tribulation or a pleasant experience until judgment [barzakh - between death and judgement] when body and soul will once again combine. We also believe that some will remain in hell for a finite time to ‘purge’ unforgiven sins before being, by God’s Grace, entered into Paradise (doesn’t work other way round), then they will continue eternally.
The point of interfaith is to explore each faith for the purpose of - among other things - highlighting where we can work together. As well as identifying the similarities, this also requires identifying the differences because this sets the boundaries of where we can and cannot work together, whilst at the same time, in no way compromising our own faith.
We do all pray to the same God, but it is our perception of what that God is that is different. We would say you are intending the Divine in your worship - otherwise you wouldn’t worship it - it is just that your [what we’d call] incorrect beliefs are a veiling
Think you should ask the British government to clear up that one… Did they honestly think setting up a new underhand ‘religion’ was going to subdue the populous to British hegemony, madness!?!
Hmm… could I make a polite request that we don’t view Islam as a pale imitation of Christianity, no intellectual worth there salt has ever said such a thing (btw not necessarily saying that you were tomarin). Its a bit like a linguist who says English is the best language who happens to be English, what a surprise
Its totally fine for you to think Catholicism or Orthodoxy is superior… I think Islam is superior 
Just a little on the transcendence and that ‘ordinary’ person
: You may be familiar with Shariah (law), but Islam is not just an orthopraxy. You may be familiar with kalam (theology), but Islam is not just an orthodoxy. You may not be so familiar with ihsan (making beautiful) or tasawwuf (sufism in English. From the famous Gabriel hadith in which all three are mentioned as ‘your religion’ we can deduce that they are organically connected; all must be applied or corruption occurs. Ihsan is the part of Islam that brings about a fundamental change in one’s being that leads one to union with God.The Prophet (pbuh) said ‘God was, and nothing was with him’ [in Arabic was also means is and will be] Only God is, and everything that appears to exist along with him has no true existence, only contingent existence. The primary discernment is between the Real * and the unreal . Muhammad (pbuh) is the clear designated manifestation of the One Real. He and the Qur’an [word made book] for which he is a vehicle are guiding lights in the darkness of unreal things. In one respect all things are other than God and hence unreal, in another respect, all things are signs of God and therefore real in some degree. Hence there is a further discernment of signs and veils. Each existent thing can be thought of as having two faces; an eastern and a western side. The east where the sun illuminates (signs) and the west where the sun sets (veils). Most of us see only the western side and are ignorant that everything is a sign of God in which He is disclosing His own reality. In contrast the Prophet (pbuh) [and the unbroken chain of spiritual guides] saw the eastern face, witnessing God in everything. To become beholders of God people must follow the guidance of those who have already beheld i.e. Muhammad (pbuh). Islam is about discerning between God and the World, the Real and the unreal and then putting them into practice. In order to reach human perfection and have union with God it is not enough to follow blindly. Rather one must achieve a total awarness of the principles and the spirit that animate the religion, or realise the Real Itself. See #23
Hope the above all makes sense, if it seems like something was phrased badly then I meant it nicely
*
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bosnian_muslim
Guest
why is it disrespectful wanting to show the people the truth? what kind of muslim are you
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TEPO
Guest
Great post…!!! We should be careful not to embrace the other doctrines, but rather we should embrace a common friendship – as Believers.
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KathleenGee
Guest
These are great points…there is a great significance of Christ in Christianity vs the Christ referred to in Islam. They are not the same. And the former is more of a caricature that was drawn from reading about Christ, because the True Christ was not understood.
There is a Muslim Christian here on this thread who knows the living experience of Christ within his being. And Christ, the fulfillment of all prophets, did not engage in battles with other men, because as St. Michael said, ‘Who is like unto God?’
Christ is the Living Word of God and transcends all human conflict.
Yes, we all pray to the same God as Creator of life, and One who provides a basic moral code of various degrees to different faiths. But Jesus Christ fulfills all moral codes and atones for all transgressions of man against God and mankind.
God came to meet humanity through Christ. If people look at the history of the covenant in the Bible, the essential theme is restoring us as God’s family, brethren to one another, in essence Love of God and neighbor.
There is a Muslim Christian here on this thread who knows the living experience of Christ within his being. And Christ, the fulfillment of all prophets, did not engage in battles with other men, because as St. Michael said, ‘Who is like unto God?’
Christ is the Living Word of God and transcends all human conflict.
Yes, we all pray to the same God as Creator of life, and One who provides a basic moral code of various degrees to different faiths. But Jesus Christ fulfills all moral codes and atones for all transgressions of man against God and mankind.
God came to meet humanity through Christ. If people look at the history of the covenant in the Bible, the essential theme is restoring us as God’s family, brethren to one another, in essence Love of God and neighbor.
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tomarin
Guest
Regardless of how the Ahmadi sect came about, the British don’t have any say in how they’re treated now; that’s the duty of the Pakistani state. And the stories I heard on the BBC were very, very sad. No one should be killed in cold blood because of his religious beliefs, nomatter how much they deviate from the majority opinion.
I definitely don’t see Islam as a watered down Christianity, which was the whole point of my post. There are significant differences which I was trying to highlight while also being fair.Hmm… could I make a polite request that we don’t view Islam as a pale imitation of Christianity, no intellectual worth there salt has ever said such a thing (btw not necessarily saying that you were tomarin). Its a bit like a linguist who says English is the best language who happens to be English, what a surprise
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KathleenGee
Guest
There is a growing public awareness and conviction that Islam needs to correct itself, the work of Muslims, not us. Muslims need to help resolve the conflicts and divisions within it. And when that is accomplished, then there will be a greater mutual understanding of our concept of God among us. There is just too much contradictions in seeing how non-Muslims are treated by…is it 50%…of the Muslim population.
The history of the effect of Christ on Christians is very different from that among Muslims. I mean, the miracles that Christ performed, including raising the dead to life, were repeated in the lives of the saint. Ours is the One True God of Life and Truth.
In fact, I tend to agree with another poster that where Islam and Catholicism is nearly identical is our conviction of who Mary, the Mother of Christ is.
Mary is the bridge.
The history of the effect of Christ on Christians is very different from that among Muslims. I mean, the miracles that Christ performed, including raising the dead to life, were repeated in the lives of the saint. Ours is the One True God of Life and Truth.
In fact, I tend to agree with another poster that where Islam and Catholicism is nearly identical is our conviction of who Mary, the Mother of Christ is.
Mary is the bridge.
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men0wjv
Guest
Absolutely agreed
However, just wanted to clarify that it was an external agent that has caused the rift… and this is quite a common theme among social and political problems in the Muslim World. Also it is more of a Pakistani problem [Ahmadis are a race too] than a Muslim problem, although I think you’ve made that distinction.Wasn’t so much what you said; it was generally good
There was a bit of a general trend among posters that I just wanted to correct. Also - although understandable - since it’d not really be representative - to understand Islam in Christian terms. We don’t see Muhammad (pbuh) as filling a void because we see God as both transcendent and immanent, he sort of shows the door, but God’s closeness is not through him, but directly with God. To be honest this direct relationship with God is what attracted me to Islam, but there you go.Thanks for your post tomarin
and pax vobiscum 
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men0wjv
Guest
Really not too sure what you meant by these comments or where you are going with this!?! Sounds a little bit condescending at times as if you are (nicely) trying to proselytize… which like we have said is futile and not our objective here. I’m glad you have conviction
but I have too I may have misunderstood, but I think you need to clarify - thanks.
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KathleenGee
Guest
As this is a Catholic forum, we are here to catechize and clarify our faith, albeit imperfectly.
What we Americans are finding out about Islam – in contrast to this fundamentalist view we saw after 9/11, because beyond the Palestinian cause, our lives have been just too full, and I could elaborate on what I mean by that – the silent moderate voice.
I do appreciate your use of words, orthodox and orthopraxis…there is always this disconnect between the two in any religion, but we are also learning our parameters as well in how far dialogue can go as long as the fundamentalists are driving 50% of the Muslim people in the world. By that I mean, the lack of dialogue, the use of violence…these points were made by Pope Benedict in Germany and caused a great emotional and violent reaction against him.
I have read reference to the causes of conflicts and wars throughout history, but after 9/11, many Americans began to study history and Islam. Hillaire Belloc, a French philosopher, wrote in the 1930’s how Islam would rise up again. He was correct. But it was shocking and even frightening to me of all the many things I began to read about Islam.
And one of the things the devout Christians say is just how much the Christ we believe in is not the one promoted by Islam…to the point of contradiction. The other difficulty, as mentioned by others, is how Muslims will draw on contradictory sources from the Koran, the hadiths and suras and you don’t know who to believe.
So you look at actions. And what keeps coming up on the news is publicly saying one thing, but behind closed doors, something else. Or giving a public speech in English, then switching to Arabic and saying a contradictory message.
There was a fellow on Newsvine who was always defending Islam from the point of relativism. He completely omitted the price paid in the advance of Islam. He was negative to Christianity. He said the religions were essentially all the same. He started giving quotes from the Quran proving its tolerance of other religions inspite of the actual reality of people living under Islam. And there was a fine line saying those polytheists would be condemned, another reference to the Trinitarians.
So essentially, Christians are indeed not tolerated by Islam.
I just can’t believe what Muslims say most of the time here on CAF. There was a member of the Planten group that I began to like and trust. But then he would go off saying things like the Crucifixion never happened, etc. But I felt he was sincere, atleast when he spoke to me, and I continue to remember and pray for him.
What we Americans are finding out about Islam – in contrast to this fundamentalist view we saw after 9/11, because beyond the Palestinian cause, our lives have been just too full, and I could elaborate on what I mean by that – the silent moderate voice.
I do appreciate your use of words, orthodox and orthopraxis…there is always this disconnect between the two in any religion, but we are also learning our parameters as well in how far dialogue can go as long as the fundamentalists are driving 50% of the Muslim people in the world. By that I mean, the lack of dialogue, the use of violence…these points were made by Pope Benedict in Germany and caused a great emotional and violent reaction against him.
I have read reference to the causes of conflicts and wars throughout history, but after 9/11, many Americans began to study history and Islam. Hillaire Belloc, a French philosopher, wrote in the 1930’s how Islam would rise up again. He was correct. But it was shocking and even frightening to me of all the many things I began to read about Islam.
And one of the things the devout Christians say is just how much the Christ we believe in is not the one promoted by Islam…to the point of contradiction. The other difficulty, as mentioned by others, is how Muslims will draw on contradictory sources from the Koran, the hadiths and suras and you don’t know who to believe.
So you look at actions. And what keeps coming up on the news is publicly saying one thing, but behind closed doors, something else. Or giving a public speech in English, then switching to Arabic and saying a contradictory message.
There was a fellow on Newsvine who was always defending Islam from the point of relativism. He completely omitted the price paid in the advance of Islam. He was negative to Christianity. He said the religions were essentially all the same. He started giving quotes from the Quran proving its tolerance of other religions inspite of the actual reality of people living under Islam. And there was a fine line saying those polytheists would be condemned, another reference to the Trinitarians.
So essentially, Christians are indeed not tolerated by Islam.
I just can’t believe what Muslims say most of the time here on CAF. There was a member of the Planten group that I began to like and trust. But then he would go off saying things like the Crucifixion never happened, etc. But I felt he was sincere, atleast when he spoke to me, and I continue to remember and pray for him.
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men0wjv
Guest
I appreciate the response and the clarification
There is so much I could say, I don’t know where to begin. I could tackle each point you have made - definitely need to address the dubious 50%
- but I don’t really have the time. It seems that you have briefly highlighted the source of the feelings of ‘distrust’ I get. Perhaps if you guys want to be specific then I’ll be as open as possible with responses, just please keep them brief and one at a time To start off with, I just want to point out that jihad is not perpetual warfare not only theologically, but historically too - only the Umayyads did this and they collapsed as a direct result of it (read ‘The End of the Jihad State’). Of course this history depends on what books you read (would say Belloc’s views aren’t impartial) and in the ‘West’ we don’t always get such a meticulous study of ‘the Muslims.’ I’m reading a really good book at the moment about the Crusades (by T Asbridge), which is attempting to be detailed and fair (also entertaining
). However, its painfully obvious from his writings that he hasn’t done the same research into Medieval Islamdom as he has with Christendom. I think one main barrier is that of language - no where near enough has been translated - and - in the case of crusades particularly - chroniclers do have a tenancy to ‘brown nose.’ One thing that struck me straight away when reading this book was his incorrect perception of jihad: to give just one example, he say that Muslims can only have a truce for 10 years maximum whilst my book Ahkam Al Sultaniyyah (Ordinances of Government) written at the time of the Crusades clearly states that a treaty continues ad infinitum!?!Quite a few modern books talk of a clash of civilization and use terms like dar al harb (abode of war) and dar al Islam (the abode of Islam) to highlight their simplistic assertions. Yet they never - despite ignoring the other divisions, such as dar al sulh (abode of treaty) - actually go into defining what these terms mean. One condition of a place being dar al harb is somewhere where the government is non Muslim irrespective of even a Muslims populous, but should a country [populated by and] governed by non Muslims be at peace with the Muslims then it cannot be dar al harb. Given these two definitions then most of the Muslim world is not dar al Islam, since they’re ruled by secularists, whilst the West could not be dar al harb. One of the main problems at the route of this (and any!) argument is that of definitions.
I appreciate the centrality of Christ within Christianity (not just a clever name
) which we don’t share and here we certainly diverge, but that need not be a source of resentment, but merely a demarcation. There are those among us Muslims who: are angry socially deprived people who say and do harsh things, use modern political spin and propagate petro-dollar driven heretical ideologies and with the addition of media coverage I can see how one might be confused towards Muslims and by extension Islam. However this is why a Muslim who has studied his religion, is willing to be open, is indigenous to the West and loves his country has started this thread.Enjoy your special day
E
Eric_Hyom
Guest
Greetings and peace be with you men0wjv;
Thanks for starting this thread, and I really cannot understand the resistance towards striving for a greater interfaith cooperation for justice. The same God who created you and gave you a faith through Islam, also created me and gave me a Catholic Faith.
We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers, despite all our differences. God has to be far greater than the sum of all the religions of the world put together, I wonder why we cannot seem to look beyond our own religion, it seems so narrow minded if we should only seek justice for our own kind.
I think if Jesus were here today, he might have written the parable of the Good Samaritan in a slightly different way today. The Priest and the Deacon walked past the wounded man, and the good Muslim stopped to help him.
Blessings and peace be with you
Eric
Thanks for starting this thread, and I really cannot understand the resistance towards striving for a greater interfaith cooperation for justice. The same God who created you and gave you a faith through Islam, also created me and gave me a Catholic Faith.
We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers, despite all our differences. God has to be far greater than the sum of all the religions of the world put together, I wonder why we cannot seem to look beyond our own religion, it seems so narrow minded if we should only seek justice for our own kind.
I think if Jesus were here today, he might have written the parable of the Good Samaritan in a slightly different way today. The Priest and the Deacon walked past the wounded man, and the good Muslim stopped to help him.
Blessings and peace be with you
Eric
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men0wjv
Guest
Glad to have you aboard Eric Hyom. I see you are from Hampshire, where abouts? I was born in Aldershot Just another thought. Whilst we do not believe Christianity is the whole truth just as you think we have ‘multiple errors,’ in our books of Law Christianity is referred to as ‘legitimate’ religion. Maltreatment of Jews and Christians in a Islamic State is actually viewed with more detest than vice versa (see Radd al Mukhtar by ibn A’bidin, those familiar with Islamic legal texts will appreciate the authority of this work). Also Muhammad (pbuh) said: “As for one who oppresses a protected non-Muslim or belittles or burdens him above his capability [if he employees him] or takes anything from him against his will, I will be his disputant on the Day of Resurrection.” [Abu Dawud] It is even forbidden to address a dhimmi (Christian, Jew or the like) with such terms as nonbeliever (kafir) [see Hykal pg 1469]. We differ, but we are friends not enemies
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KathleenGee
Guest
Thank you for your reply. When I voice my real fears and hear your real response, then I can build a bridge. Fortunately or unfortunately, ‘the Planten I liked’ is gone. He would deny the crucifixion and other points, which for me is denying recorded history. Just like the reality of Mohammed to you, but even greater as Christ is our Gentile contact with the one True God.
I was with a client and had some free time. She had a book on Arab History, and I started browsing through it reading various passages. The author spoke in the same tone towards Christians and Jews in his historical perspective as he did towards Muslim.
He also said to know the Quran was to know the Arabic language as well. And I do see alot of issues with the translation. I do not have the education to know if Islam, in the translations of various language groups, had the same degree of difficulty of translation as we have had with the Bible.
The Catholics draw essentially on the then internationally spoken language of Greek among the Jews to draw its books at the beginning rather than the Hebrew Jewish books as Christianity was going out to many places at its inception.
What concerns me, though, is how Christianity spread at its beginning vs Islam’s. I a also aware that many Muslims are not aware of the Medina (war) hadiths and suras.
When I speak of the 50%, I mean those of Islam who have an adversial attitude towards Christians or atleast tolerate us.
The history book also covered the entire overview of Middle Eastern culture. I have visited and read some articles on NewAgeIslam.com starting last year, these people working to restore reason and philosophy within Islam. I think these people – the moderates – will also be the ones to correct Islam from within.
So to fight the warmongers must be done only in self-defense. These types of people come across as being born to fight.
When 9/11 happened, seeing the age old conflict between the Jews and others going back thousands of years, realizing there have been times of mutual cooperation and peace, it was like now America was on the radar screen as a new enemy for the next thousand years.
True religion and true good will is recognized across all human boundaries. It is our commonality we must recognize. But the those who are drawn to a more antipathy against non-Muslims, and with the issue of various translations, is not the work of us.
I am seeing such a distinct and separate world looking at Arab history. We need to be clear about our boundaries as well as our commonality. I can also tell you it is most reassuring – and healing – to hear moderate Muslim imams speak out about having respect and sensitivity for the ongoing suffering of my people.
We Americans try to keep a happy, smiling face, but our country is deeply fractured, and for people to integrate and be one and work together with humanitarian values – atleast that – is what we need.
I was with a client and had some free time. She had a book on Arab History, and I started browsing through it reading various passages. The author spoke in the same tone towards Christians and Jews in his historical perspective as he did towards Muslim.
He also said to know the Quran was to know the Arabic language as well. And I do see alot of issues with the translation. I do not have the education to know if Islam, in the translations of various language groups, had the same degree of difficulty of translation as we have had with the Bible.
The Catholics draw essentially on the then internationally spoken language of Greek among the Jews to draw its books at the beginning rather than the Hebrew Jewish books as Christianity was going out to many places at its inception.
What concerns me, though, is how Christianity spread at its beginning vs Islam’s. I a also aware that many Muslims are not aware of the Medina (war) hadiths and suras.
When I speak of the 50%, I mean those of Islam who have an adversial attitude towards Christians or atleast tolerate us.
The history book also covered the entire overview of Middle Eastern culture. I have visited and read some articles on NewAgeIslam.com starting last year, these people working to restore reason and philosophy within Islam. I think these people – the moderates – will also be the ones to correct Islam from within.
So to fight the warmongers must be done only in self-defense. These types of people come across as being born to fight.
When 9/11 happened, seeing the age old conflict between the Jews and others going back thousands of years, realizing there have been times of mutual cooperation and peace, it was like now America was on the radar screen as a new enemy for the next thousand years.
True religion and true good will is recognized across all human boundaries. It is our commonality we must recognize. But the those who are drawn to a more antipathy against non-Muslims, and with the issue of various translations, is not the work of us.
I am seeing such a distinct and separate world looking at Arab history. We need to be clear about our boundaries as well as our commonality. I can also tell you it is most reassuring – and healing – to hear moderate Muslim imams speak out about having respect and sensitivity for the ongoing suffering of my people.
We Americans try to keep a happy, smiling face, but our country is deeply fractured, and for people to integrate and be one and work together with humanitarian values – atleast that – is what we need.
C
Captain_America
Guest
Muslim terrorism doesn’t make friends for Islam. It does the opposite.
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JeanMichel
Guest
I agree with you, but then again Muslim terrorists are a very distinct, very small minority of Muslims. I live in Abu Dhabi in the U.A.E. A Shia mosque is just outside of my flat. Most mosques that surround my home are Sunni. Almost every single person I meet or work with is Muslim. They are generous, kind, friendly, honest, clean people. I am more comfortable here than in the USA. It is strange to realize how wonderful this culture really is and the reason this culture is to good is because of Islam.
I haven’t met any bad Muslims, but I am sure they exist somewhere. I travel around the MENA region (Egypt, Syria, Kuwait, and Bahrain) and I find Muslims similar to those in the UAE.
There needs to be more exposure between US citizens and Muslims from around the world. There are distinct differences; the cultures are very different, but each individual is a human with the same feelings, needs, and desires.
Islam creates a culture and there is not an in-depth understanding of Christianity. There is a common thread of a narrow doctrinal understanding that most Muslims will say, but moving beyond that narrow perspective one quickly moves beyond their understanding. Conversely, it would a significant error to think that Muslims are not spiritually gifted individuals. There are certainly holy people among them; if a Christian is not willing to acknowledge this obvious fact, it is a good sign that you are not prepared to engage Muslims in a proper discussion of Christianity.
Granted I have only been here a month, but I am in love the culture here. I would be happy to live the rest of my days here. Come and enjoy the pleasures here that Islam has created. It will teach you much about true Christianity and the love our God has for all his children.
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thedarknight
Guest
Agreed.
- Status