Interfaith: a new dialogue between Muslims and Catholic

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She got a job without being a citizen and signed with full knowledge. Her country will not allow the rights and privileges to us who are not so…political.

Do you know about CAIR here and the Muslim Brotherhood?
 
It is those organizations under this Muslim Brotherhood who are causing issues here among the American public.
 
From this point on, I refuse to listen to media on Catholic, Muslim, or Jewish rhetoric… Because I believe that a luciferian brotherhood is out to destroy all of our faiths, by trying to mock us.

I think that this brotherhood who promotes tolerance of the three monotheist faiths is actually trying to dismantle the three faiths…

We should instead, stick together (the three monotheist faiths) in a rally against the luciferian “brotherhood”.

Can I get an Amen for the new social justice?

Can I get an AMEN…
 
Absolutely not…!

There is an obvious attempt to dismantle “belief” in God from every corner of the world… Why should we allow the evils of tolerance/extreme liberalism prevail…? We should’nt.

Believers of the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian faiths should unite against the spread of atheism by promoting common issues of truth, which all three faiths share.
 
As Christ said “I come to divide” this does not leave room for all those who know so little of thier faith that they forget some key scriptures concerning “I am the way, the Truth and the Light, no one comes to the Father except through Me”. I have always wondered how anyone can mistake this for any other way to the Father, unless of course you don’t believe Christ is who He said He is. Since this is a Catholic dogma and a Catholic webb site what is the real question? This does not mean you do not also have to live as close to Christ as possible and hate is never an option, by example you will bring more to Him.
I love the saying “preach the gospel all the time and sometimes even use words”.
Jesus came to the people in a time when the Old Church (our Jewish brothers) was corrupted by scandal, politics, and power… They were the fig tree who failed to produce fruit even after the gardner had fertilized…

But when Christ came to divide, he came to divide those who were addicted to worldliness with those who could display good faith in God.

We should divide ourselves with those who love worldliness and sin, not those of another faith.
 
I believe menOwjv started this thread with a very positive agenda, and is striving to find ways of working together for social justice, despite all our differences.

We have our differences in beliefs, but should these beliefs stand in the path of striving towards justice for all people?

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding.

Eric
Shoulod our differences in beliefs stand in the path of striving towards justice for all people?
Absolutely not.

Justice should be served through an alliance of conservative beliefs to counter todays “hyper-liberal” agenda.

Say no to infidelity.
Say no to pornography.
Say no to Operation Homosexual Agenda.
 
men9wjv and Jharek,
Thanks for responding. We read articles saying that Great Britain and Pakistan are the great hotbeds to make terrorists.
Hmm :confused: Britain is not a ‘hotbed’ for terrorists. Terrorism does not form in a vacuum, it is a reaction to something else. The UK has a long history of tolerance and social justice and so does not have a long history of terrorists. Countries like Palestine that have people 60% of people living below the $2 a day poverty line and are occupied by an ‘apartheid’ state (Desmond Tutu’s words) are hotbeds for terrorism because they have cause (just or otherwise).
It is true that in Britain we are more accommodating of people, not like in, say, Syria where if you say something publicly about the government you disappear or in Bhurma where you’re not allowed to marry and have to spend 10 years in a concentration camp (from eye witness accounts). As a result groups outlawed in their own country like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt are sprouting up here, because they can. They are less radical here (and also Pakistan) than in Egypt where they were oppressed by Nasser (never in a vacuum!). In fact it started as a religio-social charitable organisation but over the years due to its size and various circumstances has become a political organistation. You’ll be pleased to know that I’m not a member nor do I approve of them, mainly on grounds of their Salafi link and disregard for tradition, but also their pans-global political aspirations. That said, it is a massive organisation and can in no way be viewed as a homogeneous group, nor even really an organisation (perhaps movement?), for example they have a political party (under a different name of course) in the Egyptian parliament that looks very much like any other secular party. Still, if the Brits voted on whether they should be banned, I’d vote yes because any good that they do have can easily be found elsewhere and then its not tangled up with anything else.
 
I also saw a video of bobbies being cornered in Nottingham by a group of Muslim men, intimidating them into a corner.
Not too surprising given its the STI and gun capital of England, how do cops fare in Compton? Please can we throw out individual examples and anecdotes and instead look at trends. I could simply answer the above with the example of my Muslim male friend who is a police officer, which gets us no-where. An individual example can be found for any occasion (like the woman that smoked 40 a day and lived to 120 years to my wife’s dismay - she’s a doctor). Lets look at trends, after all this is what any science or research is based on, not outliers.
The American Constitution represents our way of governing. Public American values are Judeo-Christian, we having the tablets of the 10 commandments and Moses represented on buildings in Washington, DC.
Hmmm? I thought the US was the land of the ‘free’ for ‘all people.’ I do not see how the values shared by Judaism and Christianity are not also shared by Islam, for example we agree with the 10 commandments.
Why my remark about the sudden appearance of Muslims in our country after 9/11? Because all that we were seeing in the Muslim world was hatred towards our country. Then people began reading its history…and we saw 9/11 as a conquest symbol…certainly it was. And a number of Muslims coming are demanding rights through lawsuits. It is causing more suspicion. And especially because those demanding such rights are refusing non-Muslims the same rights in the countries of their origins.
There is some interesting stuff here and SO much that could be said. The hatred of the US is a funny one because the same people still try and mimic the culture? Sort of like having a Muslim Brotherhood rally in Starbucks or ‘Mujahid’ stopping off at McD’s before blowing himself up :)!?! The notable journalist Robert Fisk (based in the Middle East for 30 years) said that the US could pull the rug from under these terrorists with a change in its foreign policy as have a number of other notable academics - nothing in a vacuum. I do not think we can say that the US government (of the past and maybe present?) is totally innocent in this (please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not pointing the finger). My personal view in this is that lets actually teach them Islam, its not a case of less religion but more because they have ‘just enough to hate’ as one academic put it. Lets get Egypt to replace the waqf (endowment) at Al Azhar University so that it can thrive once more and silence the ignorant by speaking with knowledge.
The legal cases are never truly represented in whole (that goes for any) and so difficult to really comment on. That said they annoy me too. A girl here fought her school so that she could wear a jilbab (one piece outer garment). There is no obligation (Shariah wise) in her wearing this particular garment and the school was being very accommodating having loose fitting clothes and even a headscarf (what is decreed) as part of the uniform (for those that wanted it). The school just thought the jilbab was potentially a problem for tripping over etc. So why did she go to all these lengths? Not really sure, since it just annoyed people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, suffice to say that there was Muslim Brotherhood involvement. Did they want to make some political statement? All I understood understood by it was ungrateful, disrespectful and ignorant girl + supporters.
When you immigrate to a country, you do so because there are aspects to it that make it attractive to you. Our constitution is protecting Muslims. Sharia does not protect us. You cannot go into a country, reap its benefits and then want to change our system of law.
As well as benefits of immigration there are definitely detrimental elements if not properly governed. Personally I am annoyed when foreigners use the National Health Service whilst not paying tax or the like or when someone who receives benefits burns the British flag!?! Any reasonable person dislikes the injustice and hypocrisy of it all, Muslim and non Muslim alike.
From your comments I can see that you know nothing of Shariah Law because anyone who has studied it will see that it was the World leader in tolerance and freedom. Also it influenced legal systems all over the world, the French legal system is based on a Maliki rite’s legal treatise. The number of jury members is also a Muslim thing; in the Maliki rite 12 elders in a community, with the absence of a scholar, can make a decision that is binding in Shariah (until the scholar returns, to correct if need be). Interestingly the Islamic legal system actually means that when we get our passport stamped when entering a county we are Shariah bound to respect the law of the land, its considered a sacred trust; chaos and vigilantism are the antithesis of Islamic jurisprudence. These frustrating actions are not borne out of Shariah but instead ignorance or some modern ‘ism’ like communism. Like I said we need more religion, not less.
 
Sorry, I have been having numerous interruptions, and please note Men0…that I do appreciate your perspective as well as sharing your insights into the pictures I am creating from what we see here.

Be back later.

Kathleen
 
Should our differences in beliefs stand in the path of striving towards justice for all people? Absolutely not.
🙂 Couldn’t have said it better myself; that really was meant to be the essence of the thread… we have sort of diverged.
Not so sure about a Luciferian brotherhood though. People are people, these days their God is their desires so they go from this to that on a whim, I do not believe it is a conscious effort on the whole, more a result of ‘living as if God doesn’t exist.’ Of course you may have meant metaphorically speaking, which is fine.
 
🙂 Couldn’t have said it better myself; that really was meant to be the essence of the thread… we have sort of diverged.
Not so sure about a Luciferian brotherhood though. People are people, these days their God is their desires so they go from this to that on a whim, I do not believe it is a conscious effort on the whole, more a result of ‘living as if God doesn’t exist.’ Of course you may have meant metaphorically speaking, which is fine.
No, I meant quite specifically that there was a group called the “Freemasons” whose works have completely changed the face and shape of todays modern Western governments, and their civil laws. They profess that God stands in the way of mans “greatness”. They also profess to obtain the “true” knowledge of good and evil.

The damage that the masons have done is inreparable, and the atheism and extreme-liberalism that we face today are merely offshoots of their works.

Now we have people who profess lifestyles contrary to Gods laws, and they are the poor ones who suffer the most from the evil of Satan and his “brotherhood”.
 
“Freemasons”
A lot gets thrown at the Freemasons, but - due to its secrecy - no one really knows anything about it. I have seen many hearsay bits of evidence, but nothing that can be called academic or reliable. As such I’ll pass on making comment on them specifically, but generally speaking anyone who professes aggressive atheism (Freemason or otherwise), out to destroy religion and morality, is going to contra-indicate everything we stand for, so we can stand together to correct this unnatural thinking.
 
Sorry, I have been having numerous interruptions, and please note Men0…that I do appreciate your perspective as well as sharing your insights into the pictures I am creating from what we see here.
Life’s the thing that happens to us while we were busy making other plans 🙂 Appreciate your comments too 👍 Hope I haven’t come across as combative or harsh in anyway, wasn’t intentional but merely a reflection of my ineptitude 😊 Forgive me
God bless
 
Not to come off too invasive, but please… Tell me what is your purpose here.

What is your agenda besides answering questions about Islam…

What type of dialogue are you looking for? just casual conversation as a form of introducing Islam, or are you actually looking for similarities in social justice to work on together…? With Catholics specifically that is.
 
I understand that the objective here is NOT syncretism… I am not a fan of syncretism.
 
Back for a moment…

Catholic social doctrine can be of great good to our society. We don’t need Sharia. Many Catholics are living out social justice…and we believe the state exists to serve us, not we living for the state. We live for God…but this earth is a place where we are tested…we are pilgrims on this earth. Our home and true domain is in heaven.
 
Back for a moment…
Catholic social doctrine can be of great good to our society. We don’t need Sharia. Many Catholics are living out social justice…and we believe the state exists to serve us, not we living for the state. We live for God…but this earth is a place where we are tested…we are pilgrims on this earth. Our home and true domain is in heaven.
Excepts for the Shariah thing then I agree. The nice thing about Islamic governance is that providing a Qadi (judge) is employed and everyone pays their taxes (which are very low, they are just for land rent) then it just leaves you to get on with it. My teacher worked in a hospital and met an elderly Christian lady who actually lived during Ottoman Palestinie, she was full of praise for the ‘freedom’ of it. In our current situation in the UK then to implement the entire Shariah would be foolish, but I think some of the principles would help. At the moment we have more people working in the public sector (54%) than the private (46%) which basically means we have as many people working for the government as some communist regimes in 80’s Eastern Europe! The government needs to step back and allow the people to innovate rather than trying to control everything, which is more how I see the US and so we could say that the US economy is more like an Islamic one than the UK’s. Anyway, Muslim’s desire for implementing Shariah Law really relates to family law, marriages and inheritance etc The rest (though I feel is ideal) is unikely to be suitable given the World’s current situation. Personally I believe that we simply need to change the modern world’s foundation of ‘living as if God doesn’t exist’ to ‘living as if God exists,’ which is what your Pope has suggested. There is a lot of good in the modern World, so lets just work together on promoting that and minimising the bad. Basically anything that brings about justice and a booming economy can be thought of as Shariah compliant whether it stems from Islam or otherwise.
 
Not to come off too invasive, but please… Tell me what is your purpose here.
What is your agenda besides answering questions about Islam…
What type of dialogue are you looking for? just casual conversation as a form of introducing Islam, or are you actually looking for similarities in social justice to work on together…? With Catholics specifically that is.
My life story then …
One day I decided to find which church was the closest to the truth, to the original (how close we will of course differ). I looked at Coptic Christianity thinking it may throw up some light, but then realising its dabbling in the Gnostic Heresey I realised that it wasn’t. I looked at many early groups pre-Nicea. There were some interesting groups in Jerusalem that I’d like to explore more, but in the end I decided that the Catholic Church is the closest thing to the message. As such I looked to study more and brought a few books, including one on Thomist metaphysics - interesting stuff :).
After this interest I got involved in a TV show called ‘make me a Christian’ - they wanted a white British Muslim. There I met a really great chap who was a priest and a lay Catholic who was a camera man (the latter introduced me to this forum, his username being Chatto).
Originally I started a thread titled a ‘common word’ hoping to act on the sentiments of the work started of the same namesake. I was a little cofused since most of the time I found myself having to defend Islam to very paranoid people - not my intention. As one poster said, I was naive. Generally I think the thread was useful though.
I got busy at work. Then got stressed and in that time reflected and re-prioritised. I started a new thread here as part of that re-prioritising, looking to re-ignite my spiritually moribund self (I find sincere believers of any faith really inspiring). I had some aim of correcting incorrect beliefs about Islam, bringing a sense of proportion and then hoping to map out where we could work together. I thought I’d see where it took me, not being so idealist as to become naive. That’s pretty much me 🙂
I believe that you definately have your faith in its entirety and I definately have my faith in its entirity and that we respect each others differences, since they are irreconcilable. We share certain principles and would like to see certain changes and so I think we could work together on these shared goals, but at the same time not compromising our own faiths. Hope that helps 🙂
 
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