Interfaith official: Pope will clarify prayer

[Harmony1988]

One has to understand what the Jewish congregations are fearing and what the Pope is tryng to clarify, both are important.

The Jewish congregations are fearing that the rescript of the old prayer may be used as an excuse for anti-semitic activities, which did happen in the past. In today’s society where they are still targeted, not by Catholics as much as they are by right-wing Christians and Muslims, they are anxious that the Catholics could join the ranks of these other groups. In fact, most Catholics have been the only support system that the Jews have against right wing Evangelicals who lean toward anti-semiticm and right-wing Islam.

The Pope, on the other hand, wants to clarify for Jews and Catholics, that relations between us are still based on charity and respect, that the Catholic Church does not, nor will it tolerate anti-semitic behaviour. While we do pray that someday we will be one family, we do not hate Jews or Judaism and we do believe that we are connected in many aspects of the faith, unlike right-wing Evangelicals and right-wing Muslims, who include the OT in their scriptures, venerate the Jewish Patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Moses, etc) but have expressed very hostile feelings toward Jews and contemporary Judaism.

In a nutshell, the Pope wants to clarify for the Jews that the Catholic Church habors no such feelings or condones such treatment against them. It also wants to send a message to Catholics, that such feelings and negative behaviours toward Jews is not acceptable to Catholicism. Our hope is for unity and our prayer reflects our hope for unity. It is not a condemnation or a rejection of the values that Judaism brings to the world.

This is another reason why the Pope is going to meet with Jewish leaders and making a quick visit to a local Jewish temple in NY.

See article msnbc.msn.com/id/23936933/

JR

Thanks for clarifying that, I guess I need to not jump to conclusions so quickly.

 

[JReducation]

No, it means they are to follow the commandments of God. No where does it call for them to spread the word of God to the gentiles.

As Christians, we understand the meaning of Jews being the chosen people, to be that they are the people who God will bring salvation to the world, through the messiah, who we know as Jesus Christ.

Jim

lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=331

The title Chosen People has to do with the Covenant. Here is a good explanation of how it all ties together with Christianity.

JR

 

[JimR-OCDS]

lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=331

The title Chosen People has to do with the Covenant. Here is a good explanation of how it all ties together with Christianity.

JR

I agree, but this is the prospective from the Christian point of view, that the covenant, is the promise of the messiah.

For Jewish people, they are God’s Chosen people, not because of the covenant, but because God loves the Jewish people in particular, and they are called to follow His commandments. They are not called to evangelize, which was the point of my post.

For Jews, even of Jesus time, the messiah was coming to redeem them, not the world, and at that, there was misunderstanding what redemption actually meant. In fact, even St. Peter had a little hassle with St. Paul about conversion of Gentiles, who would not first convert to Judaism.

Jim

 

[JReducation]

I agree, but this is the prospective from the Christian point of view, that the covenant, is the promise of the messiah.

For Jewish people, they are God’s Chosen people, not because of the covenant, but because God loves the Jewish people in particular, and they are called to follow His commandments. They are not called to evangelize, which was the point of my post.

For Jews, even of Jesus time, the messiah was coming to redeem them, not the world, and at that, there was misunderstanding what redemption actually meant. In fact, even St. Peter had a little hassle with St. Paul about conversion of Gentiles, who would not first convert to Judaism.

Jim

It’s the Jewish understanding to which I was trying to draw your attention. The understanding is that there is covenant with a people. The laws are not the covenant. The covenant is a relationship. The commandments enter into the relationship as there are rules in any relationship.

To tie this into the OP, the problem that the Jews are having with the rescript of the prayer for Good Friday and with some Christian rhetoric, not just Catholics, is really a question in their mind.

This is what the Holy Father will clarify.

The Jewish question is whether or not the Catholic community still believes and respects their covenant with God. Which we do. The Church teaches that the old covenant has never been rescinded.

This will come as a great consolation to Jews and as a reminder to Catholics. Because as you can see all around us, many fundamentalist groups, Christian fundamentalists and Islamic fundamentalists, say that the covenant with Israel is no longer valid. In the mind of some very sick and radical people, this seems to give them license to commit injustices against the Jews, even if it’s just damming them to hell (verbal injustice).

The Catholic Church will not associate itself with that movement. It wants to make this clear to everyone. We are praying for unity, because we are part of one covenant, not because we believe that the Jews are damned to hell.

We are trying to bring a family together, not to condemn one faction of that family.

JR

 

[JimR-OCDS]

JReducation

It’s the Jewish understanding to which I was trying to draw your attention. The understanding is that there is covenant with a people. The laws are not the covenant. The covenant is a relationship. The commandments enter into the relationship as there are rules in any relationship.

I agree and this is what I was essentially trying to say. You did said it well.

God Bless
Jim

 

[JReducation]

JReducation

I agree and this is what I was essentially trying to say. You did said it well.

God Bless
Jim

Life would be so simple and so would these discussions if we just let a Carmelite and a Franciscan talk. LOL

JR

 

[Sarabande]

I was raised Jewish and am now a Catholic. I know what the person was saying about suffering etc. It has nothing to do with being a victim.

Judaism does discourage Gentiles from converting, to protect the convert. They warn the convert that there may be many suffering for it. They are referring to being rejected by one’s family, community or even friends from one’s former Church. It is true that many non-Jewish faiths are anti-semitic. This is more common among Muslims and right-wing Evangelicals than among Catholics. But for some persons, converting to Judaism could be the “kiss of death” for them. This is what Rabbis are trying to say. They use the history to show the candidate to Judaism that it MAY be a cause for much suffering. After that, the person must make his own choice. Truth be told, in some cases it is a cause of much suffering if you come from a background that looks down on Judaism.

Catholic clergy do the same with Jews who ask to be received into the Church. I remember being asked many times if I was sure of this. The priest told me “Many Catholics are not comfortable with the term ‘Jewish Catholic’ as they are with ‘Irish Catholic’ or ‘German Catholic’. You will be a Catholic, but you will always be a Jew, because that’s your ethnic heritage.”

I found this to be true. When I say that I’m a Jewish Catholic, some people give me a strange look. I explain that I celebrate Jewish culture, holidays and even attend temple with my sibs, because I have not given up my family or my history. Some Christians ask me why I would attend temple with my sibs or attend a seder with my parents. I often have to take the time to explain that it is not prohibitted for a Catholic to do so.

Some people are very narrow-minded when it comes to Judaism and Islam. That’s what the Rabbis are trying to warn to convert about. Not that they have to spend their lives mourning the sufferings of the Jewish people. In fact, Jewish holy days and worship are very lively, except for Yom Kippur, which is more like Good Friday or Ash Wednesday, a very low key day with a lot of penance and quiet.

I hope this helps.

JR

Thanks for explaining it better than what I was able to do.

I understand what you mean with still celebrating the traditional aspects with your family who are still Jewish. My Jewish cousin is not really practicing, and has actually married a Catholic girl and has a child who they are raising Catholic. But when he is with his family, he will celebrate with them, even though he doesn’t really practice anymore.