Invited to same-sex wedding, wwyd?

[lifeisbeautiful]

I agree with your husband.

While it is the easiest way out, to send a card and gift and be over with it, I don’t really think it is the correct way to go (and we are definitely called to do what is right, which very often is not the easy way out). Here is something from an apologist herethat talks about this same topic (of sending the card etc)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=277662

Somewhere else Father Serpa said in relation to gay marriage:
One of the greatest fallacies in our current culture is the upholding of political correctness which emphasizes concern for people’s feelings over the concern for truth.

Of course we have to be loving and caring for others, but it doesn’t mean we have to celebrate things that are not good, celebrate something that goes against our Faith, simply because we don’t want to step on any toes. Why not go out of your way to show your thankfulness for her friendship before this came up or after?

Also, the Church doesn’t say to only stand by the Truth if we know it will change someone’s mind… it doesn’t matter if your approval/lack of approval doesn’t seem like it would make a difference in the situation. It does matter whether Catholics stick for the Truth, and that is part of what is wrong nowadays and why society is going the way it is, our apathy/lukewarmness!

I’m with 3Doctors on the gay friendship part as well… I was good friends with a gay classmate, and have been closer than other family members to gay family members… I would never do anything to suggest the lifestyle is ok, but it is possible to show you care about someone without approving of all aspects of their life! Lol, I’m a sinner as well, and I don’t expect any of my friends to condone any of my sins!

I did stop hanging out with one girl that seemed to push her homosexuality in everyone’s face (she was a friend of a friend), but my classmate from college would check on me when I was sick, and I would help him with classwork, etc etc and he was just a great guy. I didn’t have to stop being friends with him simply because of his choices outside our interaction (and he knew I was a practicing Catholic, so I think he did not bring up his choices). I would have had more space between us if he did start bringing his lifestyle into our friendship; if I felt it was an unhealthy friendship (like the girl, who was constantly pushing the topic). I lost contact with him, and truth be told we did not hang out much outside of what we had in common (school), but we got along well, cared about each other, and spent a lot of time together for school related reasons. I don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but that did not mean I had to tell my friend I couldn’t spend time with him, he never did anything wrong to me.

Our family… we have little details with them, and them with us. It doesn’t mean we support homosexuality, and we will never do so, but I do think it is good to be caring and thankful and loving to people. They know we are practicing Catholics and so that may be why we have not been in too many uncomfortable situations with them, but we have always chosen to stick with what we believe over being PC…

 

[Bookcat]

It does not always show approval. I knew the family members who didn’t approve of my marriage, but they still sent me gifts. Some went to my briadal shower and let it be known that they weren’t going to come to the wedding.

Giving a gift for a wedding is yes a ‘celebration’ of the wedding.

Why else is one sending a gift to the ‘couple’ on the occasion of their ‘wedding’. It is yes an approval.

The fact that some made choices due to perhaps errors in judgment of conscience (with the the best intentions) does not make it good for others give gifts as well. Nor change the reality involved. Sending a gift for wedding is an act of approval of “celebration” of the attempted “wedding”.

 

[EasterJoy]

But Paul (great though he was) was not Jesus. He was, after all, human.The deciples themselves made a few errors here and there as Jesus himself often pointed out. If you grew up roughly 2000 years ago in that area, ‘gay rights’ didn’t exist as a concept. Even a hundred years ago, there was little awareness about homosexuality. These days a man like Oscar Wilde can be seen to be gay a mile off!- Then it took a full court case to extablish the fact. Often people with, in reality, unconventional sexuality, were refferred to as ‘confirmed bachelours’ and were thought as such!
Sorry if there are any spelling mistakes- I sort of dashed this off!

There was “little awareness” of homosexuality in Greek and Roman societies of the time during which the New Testament was written…you’re kidding, right? So I’m guessing that word about the public gay marriage of the Emperor Nero didn’t get around the Empire? All those explicit murals in the ancient baths at Pompeii were…what? No one at the baths “got” what the artist was trying to depict? The whole population was “naïve” about that kind of thing? Plus, you think that the people of our time have a far more faultless “gaydar” than those innocents of times past? Yes, because everybody in the whole NBA had Jason Collins pegged, because every man who is effeminate is gay, and every gay man is effeminate, and no one before our times knew an effeminate guy when they saw one. That’s why there is such a big deal about Mr Collins’ coming out, I suppose. Oh, vey, talk about an unexamined chauvinism in favor of the contemporary.

Forget that, for a moment. You’re totally denying the teaching authority of the Church. I mean, Paul wasn’t Jesus, this is true, but I think we can be pretty sure that you aren’t an apostle, either, right? So why do you think that you should believe your own sense of the history of Christian morality, a history that you don’t seem to have very well mastered, over the sense of those with a teaching office in the Church? Truly…if St. Paul were delivering teaching to you directly, you’d be the guy raising his hand saying, “OK, but, you’re a great speaker, I’m sure you’re a wonderful disciple, but I’m not buying the sexual taboos, because, well, you’re not exactly Jesus.”

 

[JackieMom]

Thanks, guys. I don’t know where any of you live that one can simply “talk to a priest” - all non emergencies here are handled by a deacon and you have to wait three or four weeks for a meeting! But I am jealous!

Secondly, I’m just going to send a gift and be done with it. While this woman is not a “close friend” - she is very kind and good to us. She has always been supportive of our family and is an asset in my husband’s workplace. It’s (name removed by moderator)ortant that he and she maintain a good relationship and honestly, I’m not okay with laying things on the line with one of his coworkers unless I absolutely have to. The thing is, this is happening anyway. The same-sex “marriage” will take place. I don’t agree, and I am disappointed, but I am not so arrogant as to think my vase or photo frame will change anything OR that it will give them the impression that we love their plan.

So, thank you to all, I’m just going to send a nice gift and then not think about it any more. As I am due with a baby in August, I know this woman will once again be on my doorstep with a gift and a meal and I want to be able to look her in the eyes

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Giving a gift for a wedding is yes a ‘celebration’ of the wedding.

Why else is one sending a gift to the ‘couple’ on the occasion of their ‘wedding’. It is yes an approval.

The fact that some made choices due to perhaps errors in judgment of conscience (with the the best intentions) does not make it good for others give gifts as well. Nor change the reality involved. Sending a gift for wedding is an act of approval of “celebration” of the attempted “wedding”.

I don’t agree. These people don’t even acknowledge my husband in public. They didn’t speak to him at my grandfather’s funeral. They would come speak to me, though. Sending a gift is just what you do.

 

[Debora123]

Thanks, guys. I don’t know where any of you live that one can simply “talk to a priest” - all non emergencies here are handled by a deacon and you have to wait three or four weeks for a meeting! But I am jealous!

Secondly, I’m just going to send a gift and be done with it. While this woman is not a “close friend” - she is very kind and good to us. She has always been supportive of our family and is an asset in my husband’s workplace. It’s (name removed by moderator)ortant that he and she maintain a good relationship and honestly, I’m not okay with laying things on the line with one of his coworkers unless I absolutely have to. The thing is, this is happening anyway. The same-sex “marriage” will take place. I don’t agree, and I am disappointed, but I am not so arrogant as to think my vase or photo frame will change anything OR that it will give them the impression that we love their plan.

So, thank you to all, I’m just going to send a nice gift and then not think about it any more. As I am due with a baby in August, I know this woman will once again be on my doorstep with a gift and a meal and I want to be able to look her in the eyes

 

[Debora123]

I don’t agree. These people don’t even acknowledge my husband in public. They didn’t speak to him at my grandfather’s funeral. They would come speak to me, though. Sending a gift is just what you do.

 

[nodito]

While it is the easiest way out, to send a card and gift and be over with it, I don’t really think it is the correct way to go (and we are definitely called to do what is right, which very often is not the easy way out). Here is something from an apologist herethat talks about this same topic (of sending the card etc)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=277662

Somewhere else Father Serpa said in relation to gay marriage:
One of the greatest fallacies in our current culture is the upholding of political correctness which emphasizes concern for people’s feelings over the concern for truth.

Of course we have to be loving and caring for others, but it doesn’t mean we have to celebrate things that are not good, celebrate something that goes against our Faith, simply because we don’t want to step on any toes. Why not go out of your way to show your thankfulness for her friendship before this came up or after?

Also, the Church doesn’t say to only stand by the Truth if we know it will change someone’s mind… it doesn’t matter if your approval/lack of approval doesn’t seem like it would make a difference in the situation. It does matter whether Catholics stick for the Truth, and that is part of what is wrong nowadays and why society is going the way it is, our apathy/lukewarmness!

I’m with 3Doctors on the gay friendship part as well… I was good friends with a gay classmate, and have been closer than other family members to gay family members… I would never do anything to suggest the lifestyle is ok, but it is possible to show you care about someone without approving of all aspects of their life! Lol, I’m a sinner as well, and I don’t expect any of my friends to condone any of my sins!

I did stop hanging out with one girl that seemed to push her homosexuality in everyone’s face (she was a friend of a friend), but my classmate from college would check on me when I was sick, and I would help him with classwork, etc etc and he was just a great guy. I didn’t have to stop being friends with him simply because of his choices outside our interaction (and he knew I was a practicing Catholic, so I think he did not bring up his choices). I would have had more space between us if he did start bringing his lifestyle into our friendship; if I felt it was an unhealthy friendship (like the girl, who was constantly pushing the topic). I lost contact with him, and truth be told we did not hang out much outside of what we had in common (school), but we got along well, cared about each other, and spent a lot of time together for school related reasons. I don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but that did not mean I had to tell my friend I couldn’t spend time with him, he never did anything wrong to me.

Our family… we have little details with them, and them with us. It doesn’t mean we support homosexuality, and we will never do so, but I do think it is good to be caring and thankful and loving to people. They know we are practicing Catholics and so that may be why we have not been in too many uncomfortable situations with them, but we have always chosen to stick with what we believe over being PC…

+1

 

[Bookcat]

Sending a gift is just what you do.

Nope such would be an a celebration of the “wedding”

Do not like the persons “choice” but it is a valid wedding - well in that case sending a gift is a celebration of the wedding despite the fact that one does not like the persons choice. For God has joined the too together in Marriage …thus it is still something to celebrate even if one did not like the choice of the spouse…

That is a different story.

In the case of the matter at hand: no gift.

Nor any other approvals.

For it is not a valid marriage but an attempt to resemble (even in with all the “good will” in the world or acting from what they think is good) marriage…with what cannot be and with what is objectively gravely disordered.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I don’t agree. These people don’t even acknowledge my husband in public. They didn’t speak to him at my grandfather’s funeral. They would come speak to me, though. Sending a gift is just what you do.

Do you think they would acknowledge that a marriage took place, even if they are (disgustingly) racist towards your husband, and so the present was for you, for/because of your wedding day?
I think this is apples and oranges. This woman is not getting married, it is a mockery of marriage (although I don’t think she is doing it on purpose and she sounds like a lovely person). These were family members of yours sending you presents for your valid wedding day although they were wrongfully thinking they were better than your husband (how very sad). From what the OP just said, this is a lady that is not a close friend (but has been very kind to them and is a coworker) and is not really getting married, but having a ceremony that can fall under sacrilegious. There is nothing to celebrate! In your case there was something to celebrate, but they thought you were celebrating it with the wrong person for ridiculous reasons!

 

[Bookcat]

Our surrounding culture can effect us in ways we do not realize --effecting our judgment --where we think we are doing the right thing by doing X. We can think it is the friendly or loving way…we need to good care in this regard.

A splendid quote:

"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.

Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled in an arbitrary way. In a culture without truth, this is the fatal risk facing love. It falls prey to contingent subjective emotions and opinions, the word “love” is abused and distorted, to the point where it comes to mean the opposite."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

CARITAS IN VERITATE

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Thanks, guys. I don’t know where any of you live that one can simply “talk to a priest” - all non emergencies here are handled by a deacon and you have to wait three or four weeks for a meeting! But I am jealous!

Secondly, I’m just going to send a gift and be done with it. While this woman is not a “close friend” - she is very kind and good to us. She has always been supportive of our family and is an asset in my husband’s workplace. It’s (name removed by moderator)ortant that he and she maintain a good relationship and honestly, I’m not okay with laying things on the line with one of his coworkers unless I absolutely have to. The thing is, this is happening anyway. The same-sex “marriage” will take place. I don’t agree, and I am disappointed, but I am not so arrogant as to think my vase or photo frame will change anything OR that it will give them the impression that we love their plan.

So, thank you to all, I’m just going to send a nice gift and then not think about it any more. As I am due with a baby in August, I know this woman will once again be on my doorstep with a gift and a meal and I want to be able to look her in the eyes

You made the best choice for everyone involved!

 

[Bookcat]

Secondly, I’m just going to send a gift and be done with it. While this woman is not a “close friend” - she is very kind and good to us. She has always been supportive of our family and is an asset in my husband’s workplace. It’s (name removed by moderator)ortant that he and she maintain a good relationship and honestly, I’m not okay with laying things on the line with one of his coworkers unless I absolutely have to. The thing is, this is happening anyway. The same-sex “marriage” will take place. I don’t agree, and I am disappointed, but I am not so arrogant as to think my vase or photo frame will change anything OR that it will give them the impression that we love their plan.

So, thank you to all, I’m just going to send a nice gift and then not think about it any more. As I am due with a baby in August, I know this woman will once again be on my doorstep with a gift and a meal and I want to be able to look her in the eyes

Such is really not the way to go. Is it a birthday gift or a retirement gift? --or a “wedding gift”?

That is not the right choice.

To quote Jimmy Akin the senior Apologist of Catholic Answers (his blog):

"Even if you tell someone that you do not believe that they are really married and that you could not attend the wedding for that reason, if you turn around and give them a gift for their wedding, it undercuts the force of the message you are otherwise sending–a message that they very much need to hear and that is an act of charity toward them (as long as the message is communicated in a sincere and loving way).

A couple that received a gift from such a person would say to themselves, “Well, he may say that he doesn’t think we’re married, but the gift shows he isn’t really serious about that. The gift shows what he really thinks–where his heart is–and the other stuff is just talk.”"

---

One can maintain a friendship with a person while not attending or sending a gift.

It is NOT your fault they have put you in this situation -and I am sure there are going to be others who will not do either as well. One can maintain good relations and not send a gift.

Perhaps wait a bit and then send the co-worker a personal (non-couple) “retirement” gift. That maintains the friendship and shows affection etc for that person…and has nothing to do with any “wedding”.

 

[JackieMom]

Such is really not the way to go. Is it a birthday gift or a retirement gift? --or a “wedding gift”?

That is not the right choice.

To quote Jimmy Akin the senior Apologist of Catholic Answers (his blog):

"Even if you tell someone that you do not believe that they are really married and that you could not attend the wedding for that reason, if you turn around and give them a gift for their wedding, it undercuts the force of the message you are otherwise sending–a message that they very much need to hear and that is an act of charity toward them (as long as the message is communicated in a sincere and loving way).

A couple that received a gift from such a person would say to themselves, “Well, he may say that he doesn’t think we’re married, but the gift shows he isn’t really serious about that. The gift shows what he really thinks–where his heart is–and the other stuff is just talk.”"

---

One can maintain a friendship with a person while not attending or sending a gift.

It is NOT your fault they have put you in this situation -and I am sure there are going to be others who will not do either as well. One can maintain good relations and not send a gift.

Perhaps wait a bit and then send the co-worker a personal (non-couple) “retirement” gift. That maintains the friendship and shows affection etc for that person…and has nothing to do with any “wedding”.

I hear what you’re saying, but as I stated in reaponse to your PMs, people can read into any gift what they wish. In my mind, a gift says “I care about you, value our relationship, and want you to be happy.” It does not say, “This gift means I agree with your choices.” At the end of the day, I am sending a gift both out of social convention and because we want to express that we care. They can read into it what they wish.

 

[Bookcat]

I hear what you’re saying, but as I stated in reaponse to your PMs, people can read into any gift what they wish. In my mind, a gift says “I care about you, value our relationship, and want you to be happy.” It does not say, “This gift means I agree with your choices.” At the end of the day, I am sending a gift both out of social convention and because we want to express that we care. They can read into it what they wish.

The “social” meaning of such a gift is to say “congratulations on your wedding, I am sorry I cannot make it.”

Social conventions that communicate such are not to be chosen as was of expressing affection.

A wedding gift is a wedding gift.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I hear what you’re saying, but as I stated in response to your PMs, people can read into any gift what they wish. In my mind, a gift says “I care about you, value our relationship, and want you to be happy.” It does not say, “This gift means I agree with your choices.” At the end of the day, I am sending a gift both out of social convention and because we want to express that we care. They can read into it what they wish.

The way people are picking this hill to die on, you’d think that your choice is going to end homosexual marriage if you don’t send a gift! My goodness.

You know, I might have a very different opinion if this was a flagrantly gay man who was anti-heterosexual and had scorn for “breeders.” In that case, I might not send the gift.

Then again, such a person probably wouldn’t invite heteros to his “wedding” anyway.

Thanks for the thread. It was interesting to puzzle this out.

 

[JackieMom]

The “social” meaning of such a gift is to say “congratulations on your wedding, I am sorry I cannot make it.”

Social conventions that communicate such are not to be chosen as was of expressing affection.

A wedding gift is a wedding gift.

I meant more the social convention that says “when you are invited to a party, send a gift even if you don’t go.” She extended the courtesy of offering to host us at her party, we declined to attend but sent a gift out of courtesy.

 

[Bookcat]

I meant more the social convention that says “when you are invited to a party, send a gift even if you don’t go.” She extended the courtesy of offering to host us at her party, we declined to attend but sent a gift out of courtesy.

It is a “wedding gift” for a gay wedding.

And one was not “invited to a party” one was invited to a “wedding” and a “wedding reception” of those who think they are “getting married”.

The party is not just a party of some innocent type. It is a party in celebration of the “wedding”. One gives “wedding gifts” at such “parties”.

 

[JackieMom]

The way people are picking this hill to die on, you’d think that your choice is going to end homosexual marriage if you don’t send a gift! My goodness.

You know, I might have a very different opinion if this was a flagrantly gay man who was anti-heterosexual and had scorn for “breeders.” In that case, I might not send the gift.

Then again, such a person probably wouldn’t invite heteros to his “wedding” anyway.

Thanks for the thread. It was interesting to puzzle this out.

I know - darn her for not being obnoxious!!

I hope I haven’t set the cause back too much . It was an interesting thread! Thanks to all for helping me make a choice.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

My husband has worked for 13 years with a dear woman who happens to be a lesbian. She has had the same partner for the entire 13 years and they are now “marrying.”…We are, for multiple reasons, one of which is our faith, not attending…

However, this woman has always been a good friend to my husband. She sent lovely gifts when all four of our kids were born, brought us dinner while I recovered from childbirth, always remembers my husband’s birthday at work, attended my husband’s dad’s funeral and sent a beautiful flower arrangement, and is overall someone we like on a personal level very much. She was the first one to make me feel comfortable at office parties and is just overall a sweet person with a very thoughtful heart.

She sounds like a lovely person, and needs to be treated with loving kindness and respect. I am sure she is not meaning to be rude here, but to ask a Catholic to attend a same-sex marraige is asking them to just so no to what the Church deems is a marriage.

I would write a lovely note saying these things about her that you have said here, and appreciate her as the lovely person she is. Include details of what she has done that you appreciate.

Then say that her being so dear to you makes it especially had to not attend a day so important to her. That you appreciate so much the generosity of this gesture. So it is difficult then to tell her that, as Catholics, you cannot be a part of a celebration of same-sex marraige which is against Church teaching - which you and your husband are faithful to - all of the teachings, the easy ones and the hard ones alike.

Say you do appreicate that she is certainly doing what seems right and good to her, and completely accept that she has only the best of intentions. You realize it is a difficult teaching the Church has and that there are many things the Church teaches that you and your husband can only adhere to by God’s grace. That you don’t expect her to accept it, but hope she understands that for you, to celebrate what the church teaching says is wrong is akin to saying no to the Church – which is like saying no to God himself. And you know that she loves God too [if she has expressed this] and *so would not ask that of you. *

Say we do hope you understand. And, “May God bless you. We know you and “Sue” are both deeply loved and cherished by God this day and always.”

Then pray for assistance that she can receive it in the right spirit.

I know etiquette says that a wedding invitation means we send a gift, whether or not we attend. This is the rule I follow, but I am having a hard time determining what our faith leads us to do. Not sending a gift would be rude and probably hurt her feelings, but does sending one say we approve of the “marriage?” What can I say in the card? I was thinking something like “Wishing you both the very best” or “Sending our love.” Obviously she and my husband do not discuss his views on same-sex marriage. She knows we are Catholics, but that’s it. The wedding is actually out of state so, she probably thinks that’s why we can’t attend.

Help!

I think you can tell her in the note that you wish her the very best and send your love - not because she is “marrying” but just for her because she is her, and for her dear friend who is a dear friend to God. So your note can be a chance to put those find affectionate thoughts in writing.

But this is a “non-wedding” for a “Not-a-Marriage”. There is not etiquette protocol in place for a “Not-a-Marraige” that I know of. So you are free from that one.

I think its too confusing to send mixed messages about the marraige. We won’t go to the wedding but here is a gift and well-wishes for your “not-a-marraige”?* Its a compromise of your faith.* You are being called right here and now to witness to the truth. Meet the call. Bad timing? Its God’s timing, which is never ours. Defend the institution of Marraige which is God’s creation, which the Church founded by Jesus is defending - in obedience to God Himself.

Or instead get on the festive bandwagon take a stand for the opposite of what God created and says is right by sending a “non-wedding” gift. Please. Its so wrong. You cannot say that “they can call the wedding gift what they want to call it. However they interpret it. Whatever.” That’s like saying, “I know, God, you gave me the choice to stand for you here, but I am just not up to it now.” Sounds way too much like, “I will not serve.”

It seems so wrong to expect that non-Catholics without supernatural Graces of God that we have, who are probably gay because of damage done at a tender age we cannot imagine, should live chastely - a great difficulty - when we, who have the extraordinary graces of God through the Holy Sacraments and also the help of all of Heaven to do the right thing, say, when given a small task to defend the Church, “No, I cannot be bothered to do what is right, I have too much going on now. Let me do the easy thing that makes people happy and won’t risk anyone getting mad at me.”

Do the right thing in loving kindness and God will help you.