Invited to same-sex wedding, wwyd?

[3DOCTORS]

I would be pretty bewildered if a coworker that I was close to and would call enough of a friend to invite to my wedding behaved like that.

The passive-aggressive behavior of only addressing the card to one person is a pretty serious dig. Frankly I would rather this friend just pull me aside and say “I think very highly of you and value the relationship my wife and I have had with you over the years, and I hope that we continue to be close for a long time. I am sorry that I have to say this though but I really don’t know how to navigate your wedding. My religion prohibits me from celebrating a homosexual marriage, but of course my wife and I want nothing more than for you to be happy. I’m sorry if I seem a little awkward about this, but I’m just so torn and trying to walk the line between following my faith and being as good to you as you have been to me and my family”. I would find the honesty refreshing and be happy that he respected me enough to be upfront instead of passive aggressive.

But the idea of giving them a religious gift or giving them a card only addressed to one smacks of self-righteousness.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Totally stealing this if I am ever faced with such a situation. I hope I never am, because I probably would still get tongue-tied trying to get the words out. But really, that’s very honest and yet tactful. Kudos.

To those posters who suggest to the OP or anybody that the solution to this type of dilemma is to “simply not have gay friends” - my experience has been that I make friends with people first, then they confide in me that they are gay or lesbian. So unless one’s “gaydar” is 100% accurate, if one is a friendly person, chances are that at some point one is going to make friends with a gay or lesbian and not know it at first. Or if you are coworkers it may not matter - you get to know the person well enough just by proximity.

This may be changing - some of the friendships I refer to in the previous paragraph began when more gay people were “in the closet,” or if they came out, they were still more low-key than gay people seem to be these days. Just an observation.

I admit I do feel nostalgia for the time when there were fewer of these awkward situations, for the days of “don’t ask, don’t tell.” I understand that that felt like rejection to those on the receiving end of it, though. And some take it personally rather than objectively as being a difference of religious practice - in society as a whole there is less reverence for religious tradition than there used to be. Some people simply don’t regard “It’s against my religion” as an argument that carries much validity or weight.

This couple would have grown up in the same timeframe I did so they may have that more discreet vibe going on even if they are having a “wedding” now. Younger gays and lesbians believe such discretion = oppression. So there are going to be more awkward situations ahead for Christians who cannot condone these unions.

 

[Debora123]

I could tolerate their faith. But if that’s how little they thought of me after all those years of friendship (JM made this woman sound like an amazingly good friend) that they couldn’t even have an honest conversation with me then no, I would see no reason to continue that friendship.

Even as a straight woman if a week after my wedding if I got a card from a friend addressed only to me saying that she was thinking of me I would assume that it was in regards to my marriage and that she was trying to tell me that in case her absence was misunderstood as just not being able to attend, here’s written confirmation that she did not approve of my wedding or even respect my husband’s place in my life, and that she couldn’t move on without explicitly rubbing her disapproval in my face. I would probably look over at him and decide that he means way more to me than she does and that she can continue her life without me.

Wow. I never pegged you as being the harsh, judgmental type. Can’t say I’m not surprised.

Honestly, if I had a friend who was of another faith and who did not acknowledge a Catholic wedding as a valid or moral marriage, I’d understand. And if she sent me a gift and a card personally telling me that she values my friendship, I’d think it was nice of her. I wouldn’t take this as her “rubbing disapproval” in my face. I’d simply recognize that she has her religious convictions, and while she can’t take part in some of the things I do or celebrate, she still values my friendship and wishes me well. And I’d understand if she didn’t feel comfortable “going there” and having to tell me specifically that she doesn’t approve for fear of insulting me.

After all, who am I to think “how DARE they have such beliefs that disprove of MY actions? I am sooo insulted!” That’s intolerance.

 

[Debora123]

As I said earlier, yes. Just pull her aside and explain. Far more respectful then sending a card that’s only purpose is to make it clear that you don’t support what is the happiest time in their life. What a horrible thing to send to a friend. Imagine getting a card thinking its a happy congratulations only to realize that it’s an ulterior motive card.

You’re misunderstanding. The card’s purpose isn’t to “make something clear.” The cards purpose is to still be able to acknowledge your friendship and show your love. The reason why I wouldn’t address it as a wedding card is because I CAN’T. It wouldn’t be because I was trying to teach them something.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Wow. I never pegged you as being the harsh, judgmental type. Can’t say I’m not surprised.

Honestly, if I had a friend who was of another faith and who did not acknowledge a Catholic wedding as a valid or moral marriage, I’d understand. And if she sent me a gift and a card personally telling me that she values my friendship, I’d think it was nice of her. I wouldn’t take this as her “rubbing disapproval” in my face. I’d simply recognize that she has her religious convictions, and while she can’t take part in some of the things I do or celebrate, she still values my friendship and wishes me well. And I’d understand if she didn’t feel comfortable “going there” and having to tell me specifically that she doesn’t approve for fear of insulting me.

After all, who am I to think “how DARE they have such beliefs that disprove of MY actions? I am sooo insulted!” That’s intolerance.

Did I say that? No…

I said not that it was wrong to disapprove, only that it was wrong to use a card to make a point, rather than respecting your friend enough to just be honest.

It’s kind of like living together. I have several people in my life that strongly disapprove of me living with my fiance. But they told me from the beginning and I get that it goes against their values. But if instead of doing that they started avoiding my home, coming over only when one of us was gone, or some other passive aggressive point-making I would probably think that they didn’t respect me enough to even be honest.

You can’t have a good relationship with anyone if you can’t share your thoughts and feelings with them in an honest, respectful, manner.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Honestly, if I had a friend who was of another faith and who did not acknowledge a Catholic wedding as a valid or moral marriage, I’d understand. . . . I’d simply recognize that she has her religious convictions, and while she can’t take part in some of the things I do or celebrate, she still values my friendship and wishes me well. And I’d understand if she didn’t feel comfortable “going there” and having to tell me specifically that she doesn’t approve for fear of insulting me.

If I were getting married, and something like the following examples applied, I would rather people chose not to attend and I’d still be friends with them:

• A friend who believes the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and we worship statues and bread wafers and she’s going to Hell for setting foot inside a Catholic church
• A friend who is nominally Christian but doesn’t get that he can’t take the Eucharist so does so anyway and won’t listen when I try to tell him he shouldn’t
• Not a religious issue but if I were marrying a man of another race and someone had a big problem with that, I’d even understand and pray for them to become more enlightened and let go of racial prejudice

:twocents:

 

[TheRealJuliane]

He said he thinks we should buy something nice and send it, since nothing we do will change the course this relationship will take. It’s not as though us not sending something is going to open their eyes to the Catholic Church’s laws (they are Episcopalian) and cause a total conversion. He thinks it will just hurt their feelings.

He says, “The truth is that I do wish them well in spite of this choice so why not send a gift saying I wish them well?”

I agree with your husband.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You’re misunderstanding. The card’s purpose isn’t to “make something clear.” The cards purpose is to still be able to acknowledge your friendship and show your love. The reason why I wouldn’t address it as a wedding card is because I CAN’T. It wouldn’t be because I was trying to teach them something.

And that’s why you shouldn’t bother. Even a straight couple would be offended by that card because it is objectively rude. So rather than doing something rude and expecting them to see past the hurt and look at it as a show of friendship why not just treat them with the respect they deserve and be upfront? I get that it’s against your religion, and that’s fine. But using that their relationship is against your religion as an excuse to do something that would offend anyone and expect them to just get over it because they’re gay is wrong.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Sending a card to someone who is newly married (whether you believe it’s really a marriage or not) that is only addressed to one partner is not going to be seen as anything other than an insult. Especially if the card is careful not to say “congratulations”.

And chances are that after all these years JM and her husband know their friend’s partner, so that’s an extra snub.

There was an ‘I Love Lucy’ episode where Ricky was offended that Lucy’s mom wrote a letter addressed only to her and with the last name McGuillicuddy. Kind of the same concept.

Mrs. MCGuillicuddy wrote, “How are you and how is Xavier?” meaning Xaviar Cougat. Ricky exclaimed, “Xavier!?!”

Lucy explained, “She knows I’m married to a Latin American band leader. She just doesn’t know which one!”

Another episode she referred to Ricky as Mickey Richardson. So Ricky’s annoyance was more that his MIL couldn’t be bothered to remember his name.

 

[Debora123]

Did I say that? No…

I said not that it was wrong to disapprove, only that it was wrong to use a card to make a point, rather than respecting your friend enough to just be honest.

It’s kind of like living together. I have several people in my life that strongly disapprove of me living with my fiance. But they told me from the beginning and I get that it goes against their values. But if instead of doing that they started avoiding my home, coming over only when one of us was gone, or some other passive aggressive point-making I would probably think that they didn’t respect me enough to even be honest.

You can’t have a good relationship with anyone if you can’t share your thoughts and feelings with them in an honest, respectful, manner.

As explained before. I wouldn’t be using the card to make a point. The card would be a genuine sign of friendship to the person I am sending it to. That’s it. No other motives at all. Can you understand that?

Honestly, this conversation is silly anyway, because I personally WOULD be upfront with a friend about it (I would still send them a card and a gift and wish them a happy day, though). That was my very first advice on this thread. After JM said being upfront wasn’t an option, all I tried to do was give her the next best thing… send her a gift but don’t compromise your beliefs by supporting her actions. I still don’t think it’s rude and am surprised you’d e so harsh about it, but we’ll just have to agree to disagree then.

 

[Debora123]

If I were getting married, and something like the following examples applied, I would rather people chose not to attend and I’d still be friends with them:

• A friend who believes the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and we worship statues and bread wafers and she’s going to Hell for setting foot inside a Catholic church
• A friend who is nominally Christian but doesn’t get that he can’t take the Eucharist so does so anyway and won’t listen when I try to tell him he shouldn’t
• Not a religious issue but if I were marrying a man of another race and someone had a big problem with that, I’d even understand and pray for them to become more enlightened and let go of racial prejudice

:twocents:

Oh I agree.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Mrs. MCGuillicuddy wrote, “How are you and how is Xavier?” meaning Xaviar Cougat. Ricky exclaimed, “Xavier!?!”

Lucy explained, “She knows I’m married to a Latin American band leader. She just doesn’t know which one!”

Another episode she referred to Ricky as Mickey Richardson. So Ricky’s annoyance was more that his MIL couldn’t be bothered to remember his name.

Prior to that he was annoyed and said “Who’s it addressed to?”. She said Lucy McGuillicuddy. He rolled his eyes and was annoyed/offended. In the letter she asked about Xavier, and he flew off the handle.

Best show ever!!!

I wish that Lucille Ball and Michael Richards could have done a show together. The physical comedy would have been outstanding.

 

[Joe_5859]

I would be pretty bewildered if a coworker that I was close to and would call enough of a friend to invite to my wedding behaved like that.

The passive-aggressive behavior of only addressing the card to one person is a pretty serious dig. Frankly I would rather this friend just pull me aside and say “I think very highly of you and value the relationship my wife and I have had with you over the years, and I hope that we continue to be close for a long time. I am sorry that I have to say this though but I really don’t know how to navigate your wedding. My religion prohibits me from celebrating a homosexual marriage, but of course my wife and I want nothing more than for you to be happy. I’m sorry if I seem a little awkward about this, but I’m just so torn and trying to walk the line between following my faith and being as good to you as you have been to me and my family”. I would find the honesty refreshing and be happy that he respected me enough to be upfront instead of passive aggressive.

But the idea of giving them a religious gift or giving them a card only addressed to one smacks of self-righteousness.

For me, the two options seem to be:

(1) for the husband to have a chat with the co-worker that is something along the lines of what BEL says above (i.e. telling the truth in a charitable way); or

(2) just send a gift and an ambiguous card (i.e. nothing that explicitly says “Congratulations on your wedding!”).

Avoiding being passive-aggessive is always a good thing to do (even though it’s often easier to do).

 

[ActingCatholic]

I’m surprised that no one has suggested this:

Pray. Offer up your predicament to God; let him know that you’re trying to do his will in this situation, listen for an answer and trust what you hear. When you know what you’re going to do, then don’t spend anymore time worrying whether it is THE right thing to do. God knows that we are not perfect and will accept our efforts and intentions. Make time for Confession and say whether you sent a card/gift or not, and ask for forgiveness for any misjudgement or improper action in this case. The other thing I would do is pray for the couple that God may open their hearts to understand that however you respond to the situation, it is out of love and not out of malice.

I’m pretty sure that at some point in the future one of my gay friends will attempt to have a marriage, so for the sake of discussion, here is how I think I would handle it. The Church is clear in it’s teaching that it is inappropriate for us as Catholics to attend these false ceremonies or send gifts in acknowledgement, so I would not do either of these. I would instead invite them to dinner at some date after their ceremony, explaining that while I wasn’t able to acknowledge their “marriage” I do want to extend myself to them in friendship.

 

[Debora123]

For me, the two options seem to be:

(1) for the husband to have a chat with the co-worker that is something along the lines of what BEL says above (i.e. telling the truth in a charitable way); or

(2) just send a gift and an ambiguous card (i.e. nothing that explicitly says “Congratulations on your wedding!”).

Avoiding being passive-aggessive is always a good thing to do (even though it’s often easier to do).

Exactly! And no one here is suggesting passive aggressive behavior. Your #2 is what I was telling JM to do (since she already says they don’t want to have a “chat”), but it got taken as passive aggressive by some posters, though I don’t think it is at all.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Prior to that he was annoyed and said “Who’s it addressed to?”. She said Lucy McGuillicuddy. He rolled his eyes and was annoyed/offended. In the letter she asked about Xavier, and he flew off the handle.

Best show ever!!!

I wish that Lucille Ball and Michael Richards could have done a show together. The physical comedy would have been outstanding.

I loved Lucille Ball, but Michael Richards is a terrible racist.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I loved Lucille Ball, but Michael Richards is a terrible racist.

I live under a rock. I didn’t know about his outburst until a week or so ago. I’m inclined to think that he was just trying to be a comedian and pushing the envelope for the sake of “humor”, but I could be wrong and regardless of his motives my view of him has forever changed.

But he is a very funny man and a lot of his antics and style remind me of her exaggerated, over the top but lovable and relatable humor and I do think that those two in a room together would have been golden.

 

[Bookcat]

Most important* friendship* is the my friendship with Jesus.

That friendship is the criteria for all other friendships.

Even with friends who do not understand that that first friendship comes before my friendship with them.

---

So a friend wants me to drive them to get an abortion? I do not drive them and seek to help them make the right decision against killing their child.

If a friend wants me to goto their “gay wedding” I do not attend and do not send a gift etc. I do not approve of such in any way. I love them as persons and maybe have the conversation as to why I am not coming – the ways and means here can vary -depending on the friend – but whatever ways and means I may choose I must choose that which does not show approval.

If a friend wants me to go with them to some immoral place – I do not go and try even to get them to go somewhere good.

If a friend wants me in friendship to lie under oath in court so they can win their lawsuit --I do not do so. I try to get them to live only in truth.

If a friend wants me to steal some money from my work to help their kid go to college – I do not do so but seek to help them find the right way.

If a friend wants me to cover up his adultery by telling his wife he is visiting me – I do not do so and seek to help him be faithful to his wife.

etc

 

[Bookcat]

For me, the two options seem to be:

(1) for the husband to have a chat with the co-worker that is something along the lines of what BEL says above (i.e. telling the truth in a charitable way); or

(2) just send a gift and an ambiguous card (i.e. nothing that explicitly says “Congratulations on your wedding!”).

Avoiding being passive-aggessive is always a good thing to do (even though it’s often easier to do).

Sending a gift or card is not a viable option. For it too shows approval. Even though it does not reference the “wedding”. It will be taken as a wedding gift.

Unless is for say for one of the persons involved – as birthday gift

(and not the kind of
“joint gift” but something for that person…)

 

[Bookcat]

Most important* friendship* is the my friendship with Jesus.

That friendship is the criteria for all other friendships.

Even with friends who do not understand that this first friendship comes before my friendship with them.

---

So a friend wants me to drive them to get an abortion? I do not drive them and seek to help them make the right decision against killing their child.

If a friend wants me to goto their “gay wedding” I do not attend and do not send a gift etc. I do not approve of such in any way. I love them as persons and maybe have the conversation as to why I am not coming – the ways and means here can vary -depending on the friend – but whatever ways and means I may choose I must choose that which does not show approval.

If a friend wants me to go with them to some immoral place – I do not go and try even to get them to go somewhere good.

If a friend wants me in friendship to lie under oath in court so they can win their lawsuit --I do not do so. I try to get them to live only in truth.

If a friend wants me to steal some money from my work to help their kid go to college – I do not do so but seek to help them find the right way.

If a friend wants me to cover up his adultery by telling his wife he is visiting me – I do not do so and seek to help him be faithful to his wife.

etc…

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Sending a gift or card is not a viable option. For it too shows approval. Even though it does not reference the “wedding”. It will be taken as a wedding gift.

Unless is for say for one of the persons involved – as birthday gift

(and not the kind of
“joint gift” but something for that person…)

It does not always show approval. I knew the family members who didn’t approve of my marriage, but they still sent me gifts. Some went to my briadal shower and let it be known that they weren’t going to come to the wedding.