Invited to same-sex wedding, wwyd?

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Shame on all of you! God’s greatest commandment is to Love your neighbor as yourself. Who are we to judge these two people. I know, I know we as Catholics do not believe in same sex marriage but can’t we be happy for other people. I feel so blessed to be Catholic BUT just because these two people don’t agree with us doesn’t mean they are bad people. I think sending a Catholic gift would be a slap in the face and it would look like “Look at me. I’m Catholic and I am better than you”! If you can’t or don’t want to go that is fine but at least acknowledge THEIR day. They are not Catholic and don’t see things the way we do. They can’t help that. At least support them as a person and not as a sinner. Love the person not the sin.
 
Monicad said:
Blue Eyed Lady gave a wonderful suggestion, maybe the best thing that you can do is to ask your husband to TALK to her. Maybe invite her for coffee and be honest. Tell her that she is a great person and friend, unfortunately his faith prohibits him from celebrating a homosexual marriage but he doesn’t want to hurt her.

If she has known your family for this long she probably knows that you go to Mass on Sundays and live a Catholic lifestyle. Tell her how much you care about her and maybe get her some flowers?

I think there is no way around talking to her directly, what does your husband think? Is he close enough to her to offer to take her to dinner after work and talk?
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I agree, your husband talking to her is very best. He can treat her to lunch at break from work, as she must be busy planning her celebration, and this is a great way to show appreciation to her as a work colleague. And then:
  • thanking for the generosity of the invitation to an event precious to her
  • expressing deep and explicit appreciation of her as a person and friend
  • explaining your need not to betray your own faith, because to betray the teaching of the Catholic Church, for you both, is just like betraying God Himself, and you know she, who also loves God, would not want you to do that.
  • validate that she certainly sees what she is doing in an entirely different light
  • affirming that she loves God, too
  • and that God loves her most dearly today and always, and her lover as well.
    And,
  • not going to the wedding
  • not sending a gift
  • and not sending a card!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
 
Oh_Charlotte said:
It seems so wrong to expect that non-Catholics without supernatural Graces of God that we have, who are probably gay because of damage done at a tender age we cannot imagine, should live chastely - a great difficulty - when we, who have the extraordinary graces of God through the Holy Sacraments and also the help of all of Heaven to do the right thing, say, when given a small task to defend the Church, “No, I cannot be bothered to do what is right, I have too much going on now. Let me do the easy thing that makes people happy and won’t risk anyone getting mad at me.”

Do the right thing in loving kindness and God will help you.
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This is one of the wisest things I have read on CAF for a long time. I see this as not just about SSM but as a more general observation. If we who get so much help from God can’t be bothered to do the right thing and stand up for what we believe in, how can we expect anything from others who don’t get the same graces from God. This is such a reminder to me that I owe God something, that I can’t just play the ‘oh, he’ll understand’ tune when things get inconvenient.
 
Oh_Charlotte said:
I agree, your husband talking to her is very best. He can treat her to lunch at break from work, as she must be busy planning her celebration, and this is a great way to show appreciation to her as a work colleague. And then:
  • thanking for the generosity of the invitation to an event precious to her
  • expressing deep and explicit appreciation of her as a person and friend
  • explaining your need not to betray your own faith, because to betray the teaching of the Catholic Church, for you both, is just like betraying God Himself, and you know she, who also loves God, would not want you to do that.
  • validate that she certainly sees what she is doing in an entirely different light
  • affirming that she loves God, too
  • and that God loves her most dearly today and always, and her lover as well.
    And,
  • not going to the wedding
  • not sending a gift
  • and not sending a card!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
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Did I miss something? Where did the OP say that this woman and her partner are Christians?
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Did I miss something? Where did the OP say that this woman and her partner are Christians?
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Thank you.

I want to add to this that people shouldn’t assume that just because someone knows that you’re Catholic means they know you can’t attend a same-sex wedding.

I saw that assumption several times.
 
ActingCatholic said:
Thank you.

I want to add to this that people shouldn’t assume that just because someone knows that you’re Catholic means they know you can’t attend a same-sex wedding.

I saw that assumption several times.
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Very true. A significant number of Catholics are even in favor or same-sex marriage. I would never assume that someone even knew what the Catholic teaching is let alone that I subscribe to it. Many people just don’t know.
 
gthompson said:
Shame on all of you! God’s greatest commandment is to Love your neighbor as yourself. Who are we to judge these two people. I know, I know we as Catholics do not believe in same sex marriage but can’t we be happy for other people. I feel so blessed to be Catholic BUT just because these two people don’t agree with us doesn’t mean they are bad people. I think sending a Catholic gift would be a slap in the face and it would look like “Look at me. I’m Catholic and I am better than you”! If you can’t or don’t want to go that is fine but at least acknowledge THEIR day. They are not Catholic and don’t see things the way we do. They can’t help that. At least support them as a person and not as a sinner. Love the person not the sin.
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So…isn’t your own statement hypocritical since your are judging other people here?:confused:

Also, if I love myself, wouldn’t I also judge my actions? 🤷
 
ActingCatholic said:
…I want to add to this that people shouldn’t assume that just because someone knows that you’re Catholic means they know you can’t attend a same-sex wedding…
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True. I clarified it more on the previous page here:
"…tell her that, as Catholics, you cannot be a part of a celebration of same-sex marraige which is against Church teaching - which you and your husband are faithful to - all of the teachings, the easy ones and the hard ones alike.

…You realize it is a difficult teaching the Church has and that there are many things the Church teaches that you and your husband can only adhere to by God’s grace. That you don’t expect her to accept it, but hope she understands that for you, to celebrate what the church teaching says is wrong is akin to saying no to the Church – which is like saying no to God himself. And you know that she loves God too [if she has expressed this] and so would not ask that of you. "
TheRealJuliane said:
Did I miss something? Where did the OP say that this woman and her partner are Christians?
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True, Jackie did not discuss this. As you can see above I clarified that point a little better earlier. I was just trying to keep it short.

Also I made an assumption based on my experience. If someone is an atheist, they normally make that plain. Since Jackie didn’t mention it, I assumed not. I find most non-practicing Christians will say “I believe in God”, or “I believe in spirit/spirituality”, or the “Pool of higher Consciousness”… yet won’t complain if you assume they believe in God (unless they are atheists). I like to affirm whatever step they are taking in the God direction… It seems charitable. I guess I sort of hope if they are far from God they will reaffirm that part of themselves that always believed.

We all like to discuss moral dilemmas and its not so hard to discern what is the right thing to do if we really want to know. We can seek wise counsel but we are not always seeking wisdom and right, sometimes its really: “tell me something that sounds good to me.” We are only human. When its our own dilemma and we face taking a hit for doing that right thing, we are not always ready to do that.

In this case taking a stand with the Church founded by Jesus Christ, the Church that brings us Jesus Himself in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass each week, is pitted against the new popular social convention of the day. It is to the latter not the former that offers society’s approval and smiling nods. The latter is the path of least resistance and offers immediate reward. The former takes courage, fidelity and tenacity.

I know there have been times that I too have been at such a crossroads and I have also chosen the path of least resistance, especially because I always was a people-pleaser, and I want to be liked by others. And I never want to offend anyone, and I want to meet what is expected of me. So this factor has driven choices I’ve made too.

However I must say, the times I have chosen the easier-on-me path over the right path, I have always later regretted it. The good of that is that the long-lingering regret helps me do the right thing next time.

So, I kept that above-mentioned post brief because Jackie has already made her choice and is onto other chit chat now. Her last post to this thread was in the thick of an active discussion and was clearly an aim at closing the subject:** “It was an interesting thread! Thanks to all for helping me make a choice.”**

Yet its a subject so many of us face, and we wanted to keep discerning it. Some of us really want to know here:* “What IS the right thing??”*

Her choice? “So, thank you to all, I’m just going to send a nice gift and then not think about it any more. As I am due with a baby in August, I know this woman will once again be on my doorstep with a gift and a meal and I want to be able to look her in the eyes.”

She explained her reasons: " … she is very kind and good to us. …supportive of our family and is an asset in my husband’s workplace. It’s important that he and she maintain a good relationship and honestly, I’m not okay with laying things on the line with one of his coworkers unless I absolutely have to."

And her justifications: “The thing is, this is happening anyway. The same-sex “marriage” will take place. I don’t agree, and I am disappointed, but I am not so arrogant as to think my vase or photo frame will change anything OR that it will give them the impression that we love their plan.”

and:

“… people can read into any gift what they wish. …At the end of the day, I am sending a gift both out of social convention and because we want to express that we care. They can read into it what they wish.”

So there you have it.
😦
 
Didn’t have time to read through the thread, but want to share one of my thoughts and ask OP a question.

OP, you seem appropriately grateful for the kindness of her husband’s coworker, for her charitable behaviors. And you should be charitable toward her, if/when the need arises, if you’re able to help her.

But why do you and your husband think you need to conform to societal expectations, to celebrate a “marriage” that isn’t one, when you claim to be Catholic? Shouldn’t we live our values? Shouldn’t Catholic expectations be given higher priority than caving in to false values? If your husband’s coworker cannot respect your values, is she truly a friend? Giving her a gift is acknowledging her “marriage” and it is an act of celebration. Do you really believe that you need to give up your Catholic values, and to fracture your personal integrity, in order to appease your husband’s coworker by maintaining the appearance of a friendship? Do you not realize that if you’re going to “play the game” by being “proper” according to societal norms, that she and her partner will likely continue the game, by being “grateful” for your acknowledgement and implied acceptance of their lifestyle? What are you and your husband going to do when they invite you over to their home for Sunday dinner, Thanksgiving, etc.? Where you will be forced to witness their little PDAs etc., and act as if you are giving tacit approval for their behaviors? Is maintaining a friendship which is not grounded in truth that important to you? Being friendly, respectful, kind, thoughtful as to real needs, etc., are very important – you and your husband should continue to be nice to her, in other words. But being friendly and being genuine friends are two different things. If you are overly worried about her being offended if you and your husband don’t surrender your values, then she is not a genuine friend. Just some of my thoughts.
 
quiet52 said:
Didn’t have time to read through the thread, but want to share one of my thoughts and ask OP a question.

OP, you seem appropriately grateful for the kindness of her husband’s coworker, for her charitable behaviors. And you should be charitable toward her, if/when the need arises, if you’re able to help her.

But why do you and your husband think you need to conform to societal expectations, to celebrate a “marriage” that isn’t one, when you claim to be Catholic? Shouldn’t we live our values? Shouldn’t Catholic expectations be given higher priority than caving in to false values? If your husband’s coworker cannot respect your values, is she truly a friend? Giving her a gift is acknowledging her “marriage” and it is an act of celebration. Do you really believe that you need to give up your Catholic values, and to fracture your personal integrity, in order to appease your husband’s coworker by maintaining the appearance of a friendship? Do you not realize that if you’re going to “play the game” by being “proper” according to societal norms, that she and her partner will likely continue the game, by being “grateful” for your acknowledgement and implied acceptance of their lifestyle? What are you and your husband going to do when they invite you over to their home for Sunday dinner, Thanksgiving, etc.? Where you will be forced to witness their little PDAs etc., and act as if you are giving tacit approval for their behaviors? Is maintaining a friendship which is not grounded in truth that important to you? Being friendly, respectful, kind, thoughtful as to real needs, etc., are very important – you and your husband should continue to be nice to her, in other words. But being friendly and being genuine friends are two different things. If you are overly worried about her being offended if you and your husband don’t surrender your values, then she is not a genuine friend. Just some of my thoughts.
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The gift has been sent. I don’t think I compromised anything. I feel fine about it.

I’m not overly worried about her being offended if we don’t “surrender our values.” For Pete’s sake, can we stop with the hyperbole? I thought about this a lot, and ultimately I do not see how sending a nice woman a “fruit of the month” subscription as reciprocity for an invite (that we declined) and as a show of gratitude for 13 years of kindness is promoting the gay rights cause. I was once invited to a bris. I’m not a Jew and I strongly oppose infant circumcision. I find it to be very upsetting and the opposite of a cause for celebration. Guess what? I still sent a gift even though I could not possibly bring myself to attend! The bris was a big deal to the parents, they thought enough of me to invite me, and it would have been rude to totally snub them. Because other than this thing, I really liked the parents and I wanted to maintain the friendship despite disagreeing on this decision.

I don’t believe in being unnecessarily rude, or making a mountain out of a molehill, or in making life harder than it needs to be. Yes, I disagree with her choice. I disagree with a lot of choices. She’s going to get “married” regardless of whether or not I snub her. The woman is more than 20 years older than I am and she’s going to do what she’s going to do. She thinks it’s great, and she’s excited about it. What would not sending a gift accomplish?
-She’d be hurt
-My husband’s working relationship with her would probably suffer
-I’d feel like an ungrateful snob
-It would be uncomfortable to see her at office parties and such
  • It could put my husband in the awkward situation of being cornered into “explaining” the snub.
What is the harm in sending something?
-She does not get a loud and clear message that we disagree with her lifestyle choice.

Guess what? At this point I don’t think it’s all that important that I broadcast to her that we don’t agree. What good does it do? I realize other people may have come to another conclusion, but this is the compromise we made and feel okay about.
 
My thoughts are that if the “friend” was really a friend to your Catholic family then she would not have put you in this position to begin with. It is common knowledge that the Catholic Church will not approve of gay marriage so this friend has willingly put you in a bind. She either thinks you do not agree with this teaching or she hopes to break down this barrier by inviting you to her “wedding”. She is making a point by blatantly disregarding your Catholic beliefs. At this point your only obligation is to respond that you can’t attend. Then drop it. No card and no gift. If your friendship continues you may want to have an honest discussion as to why you could not attend. It is now up to you to make it more obvious to her that you are indeed Catholic and what that will mean to your friendship going forward. She either did not understand your position or showed a huge disregard for your beliefs if she did understand them.
 
I didn’t read the last post and your decision to send a gift because of your husband’s work relationship. I understand why you would do that though because it is a tough position that these “friends” put us in.
 
Demetra2 said:
My thoughts are that if the “friend” was really a friend to your Catholic family then she would not have put you in this position to begin with. It is common knowledge that the Catholic Church will not approve of gay marriage so this friend has willingly put you in a bind. She either thinks you do not agree with this teaching or she hopes to break down this barrier by inviting you to her “wedding”. She is making a point by blatantly disregarding your Catholic beliefs. At this point your only obligation is to respond that you can’t attend. Then drop it. No card and no gift. If your friendship continues you may want to have an honest discussion as to why you could not attend. It is now up to you to make it more obvious to her that you are indeed Catholic and what that will mean to your friendship going forward. She either did not understand your position or showed a huge disregard for your beliefs if she did understand them.
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No, no, no. I am SURE she was being courteous and not wanting to snub US by not inviting us. Hello - she invited the whole office of 9 employees. How rude would it have been for her to not invite only us?

Plus, many Catholics, if not most in our area, agree with SSM and if you’re not a Catholic, you may have no idea that our Church opposes it. She did not put is in a situation as bait or a test. She invited the whole office, and since my husband does not bring up controversial issues at work, and we’ve always been friendly, she likely had no idea where we stood.

Geez. The gift has been sent.
 
JackieMom said:
The gift has been sent. I don’t think I compromised anything. I feel fine about it.

I’m not overly worried about her being offended if we don’t “surrender our values.” For Pete’s sake, can we stop with the hyperbole? I thought about this a lot, and ultimately I do not see how sending a nice woman a “fruit of the month” subscription as reciprocity for an invite (that we declined) and as a show of gratitude for 13 years of kindness is promoting the gay rights cause. I was once invited to a bris. I’m not a Jew and I strongly oppose infant circumcision. I find it to be very upsetting and the opposite of a cause for celebration. Guess what? I still sent a gift even though I could not possibly bring myself to attend! The bris was a big deal to the parents, they thought enough of me to invite me, and it would have been rude to totally snub them. Because other than this thing, I really liked the parents and I wanted to maintain the friendship despite disagreeing on this decision.

I don’t believe in being unnecessarily rude, or making a mountain out of a molehill, or in making life harder than it needs to be. Yes, I disagree with her choice. I disagree with a lot of choices. She’s going to get “married” regardless of whether or not I snub her. The woman is more than 20 years older than I am and she’s going to do what she’s going to do. She thinks it’s great, and she’s excited about it. What would not sending a gift accomplish?
-She’d be hurt
-My husband’s working relationship with her would probably suffer
-I’d feel like an ungrateful snob
-It would be uncomfortable to see her at office parties and such
  • It could put my husband in the awkward situation of being cornered into “explaining” the snub.
What is the harm in sending something?
-She does not get a loud and clear message that we disagree with her lifestyle choice.

Guess what? At this point I don’t think it’s all that important that I broadcast to her that we don’t agree. What good does it do? I realize other people may have come to another conclusion, but this is the compromise we made and feel okay about.
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👍
 
It is really troubling my mind how strange this thread has been.

The OP began this thread just this Monday May 6 asking:
JackieMom said:
I am having a hard time determining what our faith leads us to do.
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She then immediately receives a deluge of over a hundred thoughtful posts overwhelmingly advocating from a faith standpoint that she not attend and not send a gift. There was also suggestions to graciously save and affirm the friendship while also affirming faith.***** **

[Because it really does not have to be “forget the faith”/“affirm the friendship” OR “affirm the faith/forget the friendship”. It can actually be Affirm the faith/Affirm the friendship."
Win/Win is always better than Lose/Win.]

I am real sorry the Faith LOST in this one. Because after over 100 posts in a few hours she answers with:
JackieMom said:
“So, thank you to all, I’m just going to send a nice gift and then not think about it any more.”
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Yes.

But stranger still is today’s post. Apparently within 3 days – even while posting dozens of other posts here on CAF (on other topics) – she went out to shopped for a gift, wrap it, and mailed it!

How weird.

The gay “wedding” is not next week - its in July!

Its all too strange to me.

And its also very unsettling. Why ask for advice for a problem from a faith perspective and so rashly completely discount the faith perspective received by quickly running out and doing the exact opposite of what was recommended to you??

It makes no sense.

And here is what I mean by discounting the problem AND our Catholic faith:
JackieMom said:
It’s not as though us not sending something is going to open their eyes to the Catholic Church’s laws
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Jackie, you should know that this is not about some church law - its about Gods law and mortal sin. Its not just some “church law” you decided not to offend, its an affront to God’s law that you are causing scandal by choosing appear as if you support it. I think your choice is a serious sin. You should ask a priest. As you were advised so many times in this thread.

"Silence means consent", says St. Thomas More.

You have chosen consent.

And please, its so offensive to minimize it by comparing it to Jewish circumcision rite. That is not a mortal sin, and that is not against any teaching of the Church. Jesus was circumcised.

It seems to me, Jackie, that you have minimized this whole serious topic. But here at Catholic Answers, which oversees CAF, Catholic support of gay weddings is NOT minimized. Its a serious faith matter for us Catholics. The Catholic Answers website’s main cover story yesterday (still on main page today) is this one:

catholic.com/blog/jim-blackburn/more-on-wedding-attendance

The CA article linked there is titled “More on Wedding Attendance” by Jim Blackburn. I really recommend all the posters of this thread who really do care about the faith aspect Jackie inquired about read the article.

Please note Jim’s conclusion (supported with the Catechism):

*“To me, this reasoning sounds perilously close to choosing to do evil. (i.e., supporting another in sin)” *

This is exactly why I feel so rather sick and troubled about Jackie’s choice in this thread.

And that is why I feel I should say so here in this thread [and why I feel this thread should not end in a highly misplaced “thumbs up”].

And that is why while Jackie wrote her flip statement above, I was writing this post. Because being flip about this matter does not make it so. This is* not* a flip matter for Catholics, or Catholic Answers, or for any of the souls involved here in this dilemma - Jackie, her husband, the gay lovers, and then the huge, huge circle of people that ripple out from them - there is always a giant ripple effect of people who are affected by our choice to do what is wrong in the eyes of God. The ramifications of Jackie’s choice is HUGE.
.
.
.
.
.
*******Like this one that I like:
BlueEyedLady said:
… Frankly I would rather this friend just pull me aside and say “I think very highly of you and value the relationship my wife and I have had with you over the years, and I hope that we continue to be close for a long time. I am sorry that I have to say this though but I really don’t know how to navigate your wedding. My religion prohibits me from celebrating a homosexual marriage, but of course my wife and I want nothing more than for you to be happy. I’m sorry if I seem a little awkward about this, but I’m just so torn and trying to walk the line between following my faith and being as good to you as you have been to me and my family”. I would find the honesty refreshing and be happy that he respected me enough to be upfront instead of passive aggressive…
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Oh_Charlotte said:
It is really troubling my mind how strange this thread has been.

The OP began this thread just this Monday May 6 asking:

She then immediately receives a deluge of over a hundred thoughtful posts overwhelmingly advocating from a faith standpoint that she not attend and not send a gift. There was also suggestions to graciously save and affirm the friendship while also affirming faith.***** **

[Because it really does not have to be “forget the faith”/“affirm the friendship” OR “affirm the faith/forget the friendship”. It can actually be Affirm the faith/Affirm the friendship."
Win/Win is always better than Lose/Win.]

I am real sorry the Faith LOST in this one. Because after over 100 posts in a few hours she answers with:

Yes.

But stranger still is today’s post. Apparently within 3 days – even while posting dozens of other posts here on CAF (on other topics) – she went out to shopped for a gift, wrap it, and mailed it!

How weird.

The gay “wedding” is not next week - its in July!

Its all too strange to me.

And its also very unsettling. Why ask for advice for a problem from a faith perspective and so rashly completely discount the faith perspective received by quickly running out and doing the exact opposite of what was recommended to you??

It makes no sense.

And here is what I mean by discounting the problem AND our Catholic faith:

Jackie, you should know that this is not about some church law - its about Gods law and mortal sin. Its not just some “church law” you decided not to offend, its an affront to God’s law that you are causing scandal by choosing appear as if you support it. I think your choice is a serious sin. You should ask a priest. As you were advised so many times in this thread.

"Silence means consent", says St. Thomas More.

You have chosen consent.

And please, its so offensive to minimize it by comparing it to Jewish circumcision rite. That is not a mortal sin, and that is not against any teaching of the Church. Jesus was circumcised.

It seems to me, Jackie, that you have minimized this whole serious topic. But here at Catholic Answers, which oversees CAF, Catholic support of gay weddings is NOT minimized. Its a serious faith matter for us Catholics. The Catholic Answers website’s main cover story yesterday (still on main page today) is this one:

catholic.com/blog/jim-blackburn/more-on-wedding-attendance

The CA article linked there is titled “More on Wedding Attendance” by Jim Blackburn. I really recommend all the posters of this thread who really do care about the faith aspect Jackie inquired about read the article.

Please note Jim’s conclusion (supported with the Catechism):

"To me, this reasoning sounds perilously close to choosing to do evil. (i.e., supporting another in sin)"

This is exactly why I feel so rather sick and troubled about Jackie’s choice in this thread.

And that is why I feel I should say so here in this thread [and why I feel this thread should not end in a highly misplaced “thumbs up”].

And that is why while Jackie wrote her flip statement above, I was writing this post. Because being flip about this matter does not make it so. This is* not* a flip matter for Catholics, or Catholic Answers, or for any of the souls involved here in this dilemma - Jackie, her husband, the gay lovers, and then the huge, huge circle of people that ripple out from them - there is always a giant ripple effect of people who are affected by our choice to do what is wrong in the eyes of God. The ramifications of Jackie’s choice is HUGE.
.
.
.
.
.
*******Like this one that I like:
Click to expand...
:confused:

Why the need to attack the OP in her own thread?
 
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