IRA say 'Armed campaign is over'

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Franze:
Well Scotland is a part of GB, and many scottish are happy for that. I think that nationalism isn´t good, and if it´s supported by terrorism, less.
I know that the catholic identity is the responsible of the independence of Ireland, in Scotland, without this identity, isn´t independent. But I think that the catholic religion have to join, not to separate, and I don´t resign to think that England and all GB will be catholics someday.
Greetings
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The famous English bent for fair play and justice never applied to the “Mere Irish.”

In Northern Ireland, for example, voting was limited to the Registered Head of Household – with extra votes for each 10 pounds of property taxes paid. This meant that Catholic Irish, who were mostly renters, had a single vote to spilt between all that adults who might live in a particular apartment.

The landlord, who paid the taxes from their rent money, could have up to six extra votes.

“Brookeism” – meaning refusing jobs to Catholics – was a government policy. Sir Basil Brooke the founder of that policy, was once attacked by his (Protestant) political enemies, who charged that the doormen of the Parliament at Stormont were Catholics. This was such a serious charge there had to be a Parliamentary investigation!!

When it was over, Sir Basil proudly announced that of 12 doormen, only one was Catholic – and he had been fired.

In a nation where private ownership of firearms was forbidden, a hundred thousand “auxiliary police” (also called B Specials) were issued firearms by the government – almost every male adult Protestant.

I could go on and on – but you begin to get the picture.
 
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Franze:
Well Scotland is a part of GB, and many scottish are happy for that.
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Scotland and England have a cold marriage. They have much in common. They have much separating them. Scotland has its own parliament now. West of Toronto, where I live, there are whole villages of Scots. They build their stone houses just as they have for generations, in their father’s footsteps. At sundown, they take out their bagpipes (gaitas) and you can hear the loss and longing of centuries. Still a lot of grief and bad memories.

Scotland and Ireland are really not comparable. The English ‘planted’ Northern Ireland with non-Catholics. Han plantado – o semillado – la parte del norte. De repente, habian muchisima gente – esta parte apoyada por el govierno ingles – que no respetaban la fe catolica, ademas la cultura irlandesa. Por eso, habia un choque cultural que sigue hoy.
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Franze:
I think that nationalism isn´t good
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What about Spanish nationalism?
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Franze:
I know that the catholic identity is the responsible of the independence of Ireland…without this identity, isn´t independent.
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There is an old expression: We spoke the language of kings before the English had discovered fire.

It is true that the Irish preserved literature, particularly the writing of the Church while the rest of Europe endured the ‘Dark Ages.’ But Ireland is about a lot more than Catholicism. It is an ancient culture. It is a Heroic culture as opposed to a Romantic culture such as England and Spain. Its Arts, Traditions, Language, and History are rich and distinct from those of England. The Irish are very very different people from the English.
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Franze:
But I think that the catholic religion have to join, not to separate, and I don´t resign to think that England and all GB will be catholics someday.
Greetings
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Actually I think it is sensible for Ireland and England to have a close relationship. In fact, the nobility of Ireland were educated in England schools. The Irish understand the English well. The Irish from the south of the island have been much friendlier with the English than those of the north. Any wonder? Northern Ireland was cut away in the Treaty. Because of Lloyd George, that concession was necessary to save lives, but in the end it did not save lives. It cost lives. It was a bloody decision. Now Ireland must be independent. She must have an equal relationship with England. And her culture and language must be protected. As for England becoming Catholic… 😉

Slan agat.
 
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Franze:
Tell me crazy, but I would like the union between GB and Ireland, greetings
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Hey Franze with all due respect, you don’t have a clue what your talking about.:mad:
 
vern humphrey:
The famous English bent for fair play and justice never applied to the “Mere Irish.”
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True. I am always surprised at the courtesy extended to the rest of the old British Empire and the anger extended to the Irish. In any case, it is history. History is something to be understood. Life is something to be lived. We are thankful for the courage to live.

Do you have any good links on Collins and de Valera to give Franze? I don’t have any links. Many people think the Irish are a kind of rebellious English clan instead of an entirely distinct people. De Valera, I understand, was part Spanish.
 
STIOFÁN:
Hey Franze with all due respect, you don’t have a clue what your talking about.:mad:
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Hi Stiofan. Peace. Franze is OK. Do you have any links to give him? Perhaps he is bringing the Basque anxiety to this. And of course, anything you have to say about the War and the Treaty would be very helpful. Particularly from the north. My people are from the south: Clare and Dublin. I wish we didn’t have to talk about the north and the south – but we are dealing with an imposed reality. Ani.
 
:irish1: Just pray that “The Troubles” are at last over forever! :irish2:
 
I’m just prayin’ that at long last “The Troubles” are over forever.
 
Ani Ibi:
True. I am always surprised at the courtesy extended to the rest of the old British Empire and the anger extended to the Irish. In any case, it is history. History is something to be understood. Life is something to be lived. We are thankful for the courage to live.

Do you have any good links on Collins and de Valera to give Franze? I don’t have any links. Many people think the Irish are a kind of rebellious English clan instead of an entirely distinct people. De Valera, I understand, was part Spanish.
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DeValera was the son of a Spanish father and an Irish mother. Born in New York, he went to Ireland and was part of the Celtic Revival – a movement to spread and preserve the Irish language culture. He partcipated in the Uprising of 1916 and was the last commander to surrender. Condemned to death, he was saved when Wilson told the British what the impact would be on the United States if they executed an American citizen.

One place to start with Irish history is larkspirit.com/history/
 
Ani Ibi:
Actually I think it is sensible for Ireland and England to have a close relationship. In fact, the nobility of Ireland were educated in England schools.
Slan agat.
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The nobility of Ireland were slaughtered or driven into exile. The last of the old Irish Aristocracy were the O’Donnel and the O’Neill, who fled Ireland in 1604. They took service in France and Spain, and the units they commanded were recruited from the western counties - -smuggled out in waterfowling ships, hence their nick name, “The Wild Geese.”

It was the Spanish Wild Geese who took St. Augustine from the British during the American Revolution, the Regiment Hybernia.
 
vern humphrey:
The nobility of Ireland were slaughtered or driven into exile. The last of the old Irish Aristocracy were the O’Donnel and the O’Neill, who fled Ireland in 1604. They took service in France and Spain, and the units they commanded were recruited from the western counties - -smuggled out in waterfowling ships, hence their nick name, “The Wild Geese.”
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Whoops. ‘Nobility’ then was a wrong choice of words for me. What I meant were ‘people with land.’ My good friend belonged to a ‘landed’ family which traced its lineage all the way back to the first Irish. And also enfolded the Blakes, the Joyces, the Collins. Now she always held out hope for ‘getting along.’ However I was forever acutely aware of a very deeply held skepticism. I don’t think this is a contradiction. I think it is part of our heroic tradition. We are a generous, hospitable people. But we are also an honour people. :o I’ve done the math. :cool:
vern humphrey:
It was the Spanish Wild Geese who took St. Augustine from the British during the American Revolution, the Regiment Hybernia.
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Sheesh, Vern. This is too intriguing.
 
Ani Ibi:
Hi Stiofan. Peace. Franze is OK. Do you have any links to give him? Perhaps he is bringing the Basque anxiety to this. And of course, anything you have to say about the War and the Treaty would be very helpful. Particularly from the north. My people are from the south: Clare and Dublin. I wish we didn’t have to talk about the north and the south – but we are dealing with an imposed reality. Ani.
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Will look, but would he like it if another foreign country set up home in his back yard ? I don’t think so.
I could say things on this forum that would hurt a lot of people, but I’m being reserved.
Anyway I haven’t posted lately, but someone putting their oar in where it’s not wanted rattles my cage.
It’s the so called experts that come on here telling us what is best for us that annoys me no end, and you Ani know a lot, and Vern hunphrey has done his/her homework also.
For that I say thanks for educating yourselves before you shoot at the hip, if only others would do the same.
Anyway Anna theres plenty of links if he cares to look, google will throw up plenty, ok I better leave this discussion it frustrates me after living through 30 years of bombs and bullets, and the torture of the British and their cohorts.
If I get banned for this, so be it, but I won’t stand for people telling us what is best for us.
It’s so easy standing on the outside looking in, but try standing where we the tortured people of N,Ireland have stood, then some may see a different picture.

Time for bed here, :sleep:
 
Ani Ibi:
And also enfolded the Blakes, the Joyces, the Collins.
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The Blakes, Joyces and Collins (and also the Humphreys) are Geraldines – followers of Gerald, the son of William of Pembroke, who led the first Norman knights into Ireland at the instigation of Dermott MacMurrough. His descendants are the FitzGeralds ("Son of Gerald.)

When the English encountered them in their later attempts to conquer Ireland, they complained bitterly that these assimilated Normans were “more Irish than the Irish.”
 
STIOFÁN:
Will look, but would he like it if another foreign country set up home in his back yard ? I don’t think so.
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Oh, I think it is a terrible thing to have one’s hospitality abused by businessmen.

We got off to a bad start on this forum. The moderator actually deleted a series of posts. Much thanks to him for that. Certain things get said without forethought or without care. And then they get responded to. But now we have started the discussion over. A little more carefully.

The thing is that the thread is about the laying down of arms. We have a chance here, Stiofan, to look forward. Are you unhappy with the laying down of arms? Are you afraid? What do people think in the north about the news?
STIOFÁN:
I could say things on this forum that would hurt a lot of people, but I’m being reserved.
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Oh, I am sure we all know the language to get each other riled up. And as for being reserved, ah that has more to do with honour. It has much to do with faith in our people too. Enough faith to keep our lips buttoned over small things and to wax eloquent over the very large things.
STIOFÁN:
Anyway I haven’t posted lately, but someone putting their oar in where it’s not wanted rattles my cage.
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So far, I have not had problems with Franze. His English is very Spanish, so sometimes he comes off a little abrupt. Maybe he is bringing the Basque experience to this discussion. Of course the Basque experience is not the Irish experience. He will learn that, if we give him links and tell him the stories.
STIOFÁN:
It’s the so called experts that come on here telling us what is best for us that annoys me no end, and you Ani know a lot, and Vern hunphrey has done his homework also.
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Lack of respect for learning is certainly extremely annoying. Many people have some strange ideas about Ireland. Some of those people will be happy to replace those ideas with truly enlarging and beautiful ideas which are the truth.
STIOFÁN:
I better leave this discussion it frustrates me after living through 30 years of bombs and bullets, and the torture of the British and their cohorts.
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I respect that. For Vern it was Nam. For me it was many things. We all have our stories, Stiofan. I owe much to my friend who died last month. She died peacefully in the arms of her family. We all have our ways of dying. But she taught me with her stories and with her example. Is it in the striving to be more than mere fragile flesh? Is it in the striving to hold onto something which others would take away?

There is a small town on Lake Huron. In the afternoon people come to the cafe and they play their whistles and fiddles. Gosh, Stiofan, there are many Irish here. Some of the music is very very old. The way people speak English you would think they were straight out of the Old Country instead of generations apart. In some regions they even speak Irish Gaelic. We all have our ways of dying. But we all have our ways of living too. Those who have lived and died with honour have stories told about them.
STIOFÁN:
If I get banned for this, so be it, but I won’t stand for people telling us what is best for us.
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‘Us’ now extends all over the world. One never knows when I am going to stumble across a shining example of ‘us.’ We have proliferated. It is a miracle there is anything left of our language, our culture, our stories. But they have not only survived but flourished.
STIOFÁN:
It’s so easy standing on the outside looking in, but try standing where we the tortured people of N,Ireland have stood, then some may see a different picture.
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I never had a chance to stand with you, Stiofan. My family was part of the diaspora. We stood where we could. Outside the port of Toronto, the Irish died in droves while standing on the decks of their ships, hoping to land. Those that landed, huddled in freezing basements or got sent out as child labour. Or they were hanged in the market across from where I live.

Do you write, Stiofan?
 
vern humphrey:
The Blakes, Joyces and Collins (and also the Humphreys) are Geraldines – followers of Gerald, the son of William of Pembroke, who led the first Norman knights into Ireland at the instigation of Dermott MacMurrough. His descendants are the FitzGeralds ("Son of Gerald.)

When the English encountered them in their later attempts to conquer Ireland, they complained bitterly that these assimilated Normans were “more Irish than the Irish.”
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Sheesh, Vern! Now you know I am going to store that little bit of info in my cranium for the next time I meet up with that lot. :cool: :rotfl:
 
Ani Ibi:
Sheesh, Vern! Now you know I am going to store that little bit of info in my cranium for the next time I meet up with that lot. :cool: :rotfl:
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On me Da’ s side, we’re Geraldines. On me Mither’s side, we’re Milesians.
 
vern humphrey:
On me Da’ s side, we’re Geraldines. On me Mither’s side, we’re Milesians.
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My Book of Irish Families was stolen from me, so I am at a disadvantage. But it does give me a smile thinking of the Irish who are more Irish than the Irish.
 
Ireland for the Irish.

On my mother’s side, we are McTague’s from Donegal. 😉 Family came over during the famine.
 
Ani Ibi:
Do you write, Stiofan?
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Thanks, you have done your homework, no I don’t write apart from in the 70’s I used to write songs and send them to Quincy Mass: USA.

Anyway think about it, isn’t it weird that one part of a european member is occupying another, it’s laughable if it wasn’t so serious.

So does franze want to be occupied by the British ? if so be my guest franze.

Anyway you are occupied by them, all those holiday makers are taking over you (Spain) thats for sure.

community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=403851708

community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=405889193

A few pics: that might interest you, the top one is of my home town, I was born other side of the old arched bridge, right hand side.

And the others are a Sunday trip to Donegal, July not a good day, sorry about the quality.
 
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