Ireland asks Israel to allow ship to Gaza

[Brooklyn]

The Geneva Conventions do prohibit the use of civilians as human shields, using civilian structures for military operations, and interning civilians in a warzone. The IDF forces Palestinian civilians, including children, at gunpoint to serve as human shields. The IDF has been known to hijack ambulances for the purpose of ambushing Palestinians and has also been known to attack International Red Cross convoys. The IDF also uses civilian structures as bases of operation. I don’t see anyone here condemning these things.

And just where do you get your information from?

You are twisting facts here. Hamas deliberately/U] uses human shields to try to make Israel look like bad.

“Such is the real dilemma currently faced by the Israeli high command, which reportedly has intelligence that exactly locates the shaken Hamas war cabinet in Gaza in a bunker beneath a hospital, where it is shielded by women and children. How should Israel act? Destroy the terrorist high command or do nothing, to avoid being blamed for loss of innocent lives by an international community indifferent to the threats from Hamas rockets targeting Jews from Sderot to Tel Aviv’s suburbs?”

“The Gaza conflict is likely to be remembered as a terrible watershed, not because the IDF has unintentionally killed Palestinian civilians but because Hamas has made the use of human shields a primary military strategy. Buoyed by the unforgivable silence of leading international NGOs, Hamas deploys two complementary tactics that mock and debase the humanitarian core of international law: thousands of indiscriminate rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians and the massive use of Palestinian civilians—including women and children—as human shields.”

usnews.com/articles/opinion/2009/01/09/the-threat-of-the-human-shield-strategy-hamas-uses-extends-beyond-israel-gaza.html

Israel is not the one violating Geneva conventions. The IDF does not force Hamas to use their civilians as human shields. It is a calculated ploy by Hamas.

Please get your facts straight.

 

[scipio337]

The Geneva Conventions do prohibit the use of civilians as human shields, using civilian structures for military operations, and interning civilians in a warzone. The IDF forces Palestinian civilians, including children, at gunpoint to serve as human shields. The IDF has been known to hijack ambulances for the purpose of ambushing Palestinians and has also been known to attack International Red Cross convoys. The IDF also uses civilian structures as bases of operation. I don’t see anyone here condemning these things.

I condemn them, wholeheartedly.

Can you admit that the World Health Organization determined that

There have been several proven cases of misuse of Palestinian ambulances to transport
ammunition or explosive belts or to transfer terrorists.

apps.who.int/gb/archive/pdf_files/WHA56/ea56id6.pdf

and condemn that? Both sides commit atrocities that need to stop, but I think there is a double standard held to Israel.

 

[Lev23]

So I guess it was anti-Muslim hate laws that forbid Iraq from keeping Kuwait when it was invaded and annexed by Saddam???

Nope - it’s the law - and the law says you cannot aquire and keep land by war and you cannot settle that land.

So what Israel is doing with it’s settlements and Jerusalem is illegal.

It’s not anti-Jewish hate laws, it’s the law. Plain and simple.

No, it was the coalition forces that keep Saddam from keeping it.

Conquest knows no rules or laws, but it’s own agenda for expansion and survival.

That being said, Israel declared themselves independant in a land where there was no national state of “Palestine”. And since then, the have acquired/given back-kept land after being ATTACKED in the first place. They were attacked with the notion of total destruction to the nation of Israel.

I wonder if there would be international outcry today if it was Israel who lost “pre-1967” land in the past wars? Would the nations consider the Arab nations as occupiers and land grabbers that broke international law?

 

[scipio337]

True, but an interesting parallel is the post colonial collapse that formed India, Pakistan, and East Pakistan (Bangladesh), with about 10x the religious and ethnic minorities displaced, and far more people killed by the ensuing war. The area is still contentious, but nowhere near the situation in the southern Levant.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

And just where do you get your information from?

The State Department Human Rights Reports. Feel free to examine all of them.

Here are a few gems from those reports for you to ponder in the meantime:

Israeli television news report showed footage of an IDF soldier aiming a rifle with a teargas grenade while standing behind a 17-year-old blindfolded Palestinian in Dura village, west of Hebron.

Israel also placed civilians in danger by occupying Palestinian homes, quartering soldiers there, and conducting military operations from them. For example, in December, IDF soldiers conducted raids in the Old City of Nablus and detained residents of buildings in a single apartment while using the upper floors for military activities…

Israeli forces continued to use Palestinians as “human shields” in violation of Israeli law despite High Court rulings in 2002 and 2005 and an IDF Chief of Staff order in 2005.

IDF soldiers entered the home of Mahmud Rajabi in Hebron and reportedly detained three members of the family to serve as human shields. The IDF commander of the operation reportedly said that the soldiers used the brothers to prevent rock and bomb throwing at the soldiers in the house.

…Israeli soldiers used civilians, including children, as human shields, endangering their lives by forcing them to remain in or near houses which they took over and used as military positions…

…the Israeli High Court of Justice granted an injunction against the use of Palestinians as “shields” for Israeli forces. Israel admitted the use of such practices, in violation of existing procedures, and reiterated that IDF forces “are absolutely forbidden to use civilians of any kind as a means of ‘living shield’ against gunfire or attack by the Palestinian side, or as ‘hostages.’” However, this ruling did not prevent IDF soldiers from carrying out the same practices under another name.

On February 25, television broadcasts showed soldiers in Nablus forcing 24-year-old Samah Amira at gun point to serve as a human shield as they searched houses

etc etc ad infinitum

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

I condemn them, wholeheartedly.

Can you admit that the World Health Organization determined that

apps.who.int/gb/archive/pdf_files/WHA56/ea56id6.pdf

and condemn that? Both sides commit atrocities that need to stop, but I think there is a double standard held to Israel.

I also condemn any Palestinian violation of the Geneva Conventions, however, I believe the double standard is held to Palestinians who are apparently to do nothing and simply allow Israel to rape them of property, resources, and lives.

 

[scipio337]

I also condemn any Palestinian violation of the Geneva Conventions, however, I believe the double standard is held to Palestinians who are apparently to do nothing and simply allow Israel to rape them of property, resources, and lives.

Do you remember the international outcry for Hamas using human shields, or Red Crescent ambulances? I don’t.

Consider that the US State Department lists both Hizbollah and Hamas on the “Terrorist Designation Lists”

state.gov/s/ct/list/index.htm

Your “Yes, but” rings pretty hollow. If only one side werre committing atrocities, these conflicts would have been over quite some time ago, with the peaceful side winning out.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

If only one side werre committing atrocities, these conflicts would have been over quite some time ago, with the peaceful side winning out.

I wouldn’t consider the Israeli side being the “peaceful” side given the content of the State Department Human Rights Reports.

 

[Brooklyn]

I wouldn’t consider the Israeli side being the “peaceful” side given the content of the State Department Human Rights Reports.

Israel isn’t on this list. What are you talking about?

 

[Brooklyn]

QUOTE=EmperorNapoleon;6744193]The State Department Human Rights Reports. Feel free to examine all of them.

Here are a few gems from those reports for you to ponder in the meantime:

Where exactly in the report are you getting these quotes from? I’ve looked and can’t seem to find them anywhere.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Where exactly in the report are you getting these quotes from? I’ve looked and can’t seem to find them anywhere.

Start under “Arbitrary Interference with Privacy, Family, Home, or Correspondence” in the Occupied Territories section. The quotes are taken from multiple reports.

 

[scipio337]

I wouldn’t consider the Israeli side being the “peaceful” side given the content of the State Department Human Rights Reports.

I never said I do.

Given the context of the State Departments designation of Hamas and Hizbollah (who some nations recognize as a "legitimate resistance movement), I don’t think many Palestinian organiations are either.

 

[Brooklyn]

Start under “Arbitrary Interference with Privacy, Family, Home, or Correspondence” in the Occupied Territories section. The quotes are taken from multiple reports.

I’ve looked and don’t find such a thing. Specific links, or I’m not buying any of it.

 

[iamrefreshed]

All done in order to keep the uneducated masses angry with ANYONE besides their corrupt fanatic leaders.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

I’ve looked and don’t find such a thing. Specific links, or I’m not buying any of it.

Here is the link I’ve already provided so you can select any year from 1999-2009.

Here is the link for 2009.

Here is the link for 2008

Here is the link for 2007

Here is the link for 2006

Here is the link for 2005

Here is the link for 2004

Here is the link for 2003

Here is the link for 2002

Here is the link for 2001

Here is the link for 2000

Here is the link for 1999

 

[Brooklyn]

Here is the link I’ve already provided so you can select any year from 1999-2009.

Here is the link for 2009.

Here is the link for 2008

Here is the link for 2007

Here is the link for 2006

Here is the link for 2005

Here is the link for 2004

Here is the link for 2003

Here is the link for 2002

Here is the link for 2001

Here is the link for 2000

Here is the link for 1999

There is no way I have the time to go through all of these. If you really want to prove your point, you need to put a link after each accusation you cited.

I did find this on the 2009 link:

"The government generally respected the human rights of its citizens, although there were problems in some areas. There were several high-profile cases involving corruption by political leaders. Institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against Arab citizens, Palestinian Arabs, non-Orthodox Jews, and other religious groups continued, as did societal discrimination against persons with disabilities. Women suffered societal discrimination and domestic violence. The government maintained unequal educational systems for Arab and Jewish students. While trafficking in persons for the purpose of prostitution greatly decreased in recent years, trafficking for the purpose of labor remained a problem, as did abuse of foreign workers. "

Sounds like our own country, certainly nothing to the extent that you cited.

There were “violations” found by a UN commission, but the UN is so blatantly biased against Israel I don’t accept anything from them.

Under Respect for Human Rights, it states: “The government or its agents did not commit politically motivated killings.”

There was also this:

"Section 2 Respect for Civil Liberties, Including:

a. Freedom of Speech and Press

The law provides for freedom of speech and of the press; while the government generally respected these rights, in practice there were some restrictions. Individuals may criticize the government publicly and privately without reprisal, but the law prohibits hate speech and incitement to violence, and the 1948 Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance prohibits expressing support for illegal or terrorist organizations. The government imposed a blanket ban on foreign journalists entering Gaza during the offensive, which ended on January 23."

"b. Freedom of Peaceful Assembly and Association

Freedom of Assembly

The law provides for freedom of assembly, and the government generally respected this right in practice. "

"c. Freedom of Religion

The law provides for freedom of religion, and the government generally respected this right in practice."

"d. Freedom of Movement, Internally Displaced Persons, Protection of Refugees, and Stateless Persons

The law provides for these rights, and the government generally respected them in practice for citizens"

None of the abuses outlined in the 2009 report were any more eggregious than those we see right here in our own country, and come nowhere near what we see in Arab countries.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

There is no way I have the time to go through all of these. If you really want to prove your point, you need to put a link after each accusation you cited.

I’ve already provided you with my source, links to every report, and even told you the specific section where the quotes were taken from. The fact that the IDF uses Palestinian civilians as human shields is mentioned in all 11 reports. It’s clear that you simply refuse to accept the truth.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I’ve already provided you with my source, links to every report, and even told you the specific section where the quotes were taken from. The fact that the IDF uses Palestinian civilians as human shields is mentioned in all 11 reports. It’s clear that you simply refuse to accept the truth.

There are an equal number of Palinistian atrocities listed including torture, murder and human shield use.

You cherry picked…as usual.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

You cherry picked…as usual.

At issue was whether or not Israel uses human shields so the term “cherrypicking” doesn’t apply. Are you a supporter of the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields?

 

[scipio337]

At issue was whether or not Israel uses human shields so the term “cherrypicking” doesn’t apply. Are you a supporter of the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields?

Strawman, and moving the goalposts.