Ireland asks Israel to allow ship to Gaza

[Ridgerunner]

That’s the foundation for propaganda. The Nazis did the same thing when they manipulated the population into hating the Jews. Now the Jews are doing the same thing. But that’s OK because they’re “chosen.”

I didn’t think some would get it, and obviously, some didn’t.

See, it’s like this. Some in the U.S. seem to consider this country and its institutions their “enemy”. And so, some choose to believe the enemies of this country over this country. In choosing to believe Hamas or any other source related to Islamic terror over one’s own country, one is, in effect, disclosing who one’s friends and enemies are in one’s heart of hearts.

Get it now?

 

[TechieJustin]

I didn’t think some would get it, and obviously, some didn’t.

See, it’s like this. Some in the U.S. seem to consider this country and its institutions their “enemy”. And so, some choose to believe the enemies of this country over this country. In choosing to believe Hamas or any other source related to Islamic terror over one’s own country, one is, in effect, disclosing who one’s friends and enemies are in one’s heart of hearts.

Get it now?

Well… no not really.
Choosing to listen to a variety of news sources doesn’t equal capitulation with the so called enemy.
Thats the point of “teh inratnetz”
We can get information from all over the world without having Bill-O or Keithy translate it for us.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Well, I will - your posts won’t get reported, mine will.

It’s part of our conspiracy with Israel!

There’s really an IDF unit that follows bloggers and reports Anti-Israel posts in an effort to control the blogosphere!

 

[TechieJustin]

It’s part of our conspiracy with Israel!

There’s really an IDF unit that follows bloggers and reports Anti-Israel posts in an effort to control the blogosphere!

you have it all wrong.
Its the Evangelical Christians who worship Gods chosen people- the Jews don’t have to do anything.

 

[Muzhik]

I have already given you this link, which is the report on Israel for 2009. Where is the section?

state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2009/nea/136070.htm

f. Arbitrary Interference with Privacy, Family, Home, or Correspondence

OK. I’ve pulled up the 2009 Human Rights Report: Israel and the occupied territories. I’ve scrolled down to section f. I’m just going to quote the first sentence or two of each paragraph in order to save space:

The law provides for protection of privacy of the individual and the home. In criminal cases the law permits wiretapping under court order; in security cases, the MOD must issue the order. Under emergency regulations authorities may open and destroy mail on the basis of security considerations.

The law provides for police officers and other public investigators to request court orders to obtain personal information from private communications companies, including landline and cellular telephones and Internet service providers.

Separate religious court systems adjudicate personal status, such as marriage and divorce, for the Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and Druze communities.

Many Jewish citizens objected to exclusive Orthodox rabbinic control over aspects of their personal lives.

The authority to grant status (citizenship and residency) to a non-Israeli spouse, including Palestinian and other non-Jewish foreign spouses, resides with the Ministry of Interior (MOI).

After the Supreme Court upheld the law, the Knesset expanded it to bar family reunification in cases where one spouse is a non-Jewish citizen of Iran, Iraq, Syria, or Lebanon.

There is absolutely nothing in any of this section regarding the use or the approval of the use of human shields by the military.

So, where is your documented proof?

 

[TechieJustin]

OK. I’ve pulled up the 2009 Human Rights Report: Israel and the occupied territories. I’ve scrolled down to section f. I’m just going to quote the first sentence or two of each paragraph in order to save space:

There is absolutely nothing in any of this section regarding the use or the approval of the use of human shields by the military.

So, where is your documented proof?

any documented proof would be considered anti-semitic.
So here is one from 2006.
btselem.org/english/human_shields/20060720_human_shields_in_beit_hanun.asp
But I’m sure since this isn’t from the US State department or Foxnews this site must be biased.

Yes, you may find it hard to believe “Gods chosen people” resorts to the same tactics as terrorists.

 

[Muzhik]

The State Department is part of the US government which is Pro-Israel.
Therefore it is biased.

having been the victim of attempted police intimidation - I’m going to side with AI.

I’m afraid you’ve got no experience or have done no research into the policies of the US State Department. They have a long history of viewing the President as simply a “temp” and so the right and proper view of US national interests lies with them. (There’s a reason they call the place where they built the State Dept. “Foggy Bottom.”)

When the debate was going on in the UN over what to do with British Mandated Palestine when the Mandate ended, the State Department would go into meetings and make statements that were in direct contradiction to what the President had ordered. In the first decades of Israel’s life, the State Department was actively hostile towards Israel. It was a “wild card” in the Mediterranean that was out of their control. (FWIW, Stalin viewed Israel the same way when it became clear that the Communist Party in Israel was not going to follow Moscow’s directives.)

The Six-Day War actually started two weeks earlier, when Egypt blockaded the Israeli port of Elat. By international law, blockading another nation’s ports is a de-facto declaration of war. President Johnson spent two weeks trying to organize flotillas to break the blockade, with no success. Throughout this time, he was pressuring Israel not to attack. Israel launched its attacks when both Jordan and Syria made speeches in the UN pointing out that they had not signed peace treaties with Israel, they had signed armistices: a cease-fire, so a state of war still existed. (In hind sight, they did that to lay the groundwork for justifying their own attack. Sauce for the goose…) Johnson was royally p*$$ed when the attack was launched.

During the Yom Kippur war, Kissinger blocked access to President Nixon. He said later he “wanted the Jews to bleed a little.” It was only when Golda Meir called at 3AM Washington time, when Kissinger had by chance gone home to get some sleep, that she got through to Nixon, who personally approved sending military supplies to keep Israel alive.

Like I said, the State Department has been opposed to Israel for decades, and a case can be made that it has NEVER been supportive of Israel. IOW, any US support for Israel came in spite of the State Dept., not because of it.

 

[TechieJustin]

I’m afraid you’ve got no experience or have done no research into the policies of the US State Department. They have a long history of viewing the President as simply a “temp” and so the right and proper view of US national interests lies with them. (There’s a reason they call the place where they built the State Dept. “Foggy Bottom.”)

When the debate was going on in the UN over what to do with British Mandated Palestine when the Mandate ended, the State Department would go into meetings and make statements that were in direct contradiction to what the President had ordered. In the first decades of Israel’s life, the State Department was actively hostile towards Israel.

SNIP!

.

and then AIPAC was founded - from there the US government was pro-israel 100% of the time.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well… no not really.
Choosing to listen to a variety of news sources doesn’t equal capitulation with the so called enemy.
Thats the point of “teh inratnetz”
We can get information from all over the world without having Bill-O or Keithy translate it for us.

Yes, really. And it’s not “capitulation”, it’s “siding with”.

In any event, the source being discussed is the State Department, not Bill O’Reilley or “Keithy”, whoever that might be.

 

[Ridgerunner]

and then AIPAC was founded - from there the US government was pro-israel 100% of the time.

And so you think AIPAC controls U.S. foreign policy?

 

[donsnow]

So I guess it was anti-Muslim hate laws that forbid Iraq from keeping Kuwait when it was invaded and annexed by Saddam???

Nope - it’s the law - and the law says you cannot aquire and keep land by war and you cannot settle that land.

So what Israel is doing with it’s settlements and Jerusalem is illegal.

It’s not anti-Jewish hate laws, it’s the law. Plain and simple.

No law save Kuwait from Saddam Hussien. The United States Armed forces saved Kuwait to forbid their oil reserves to Saddam Hussien.

There’s no way to enforce that alleged law. Unenforceable laws should not be quoted.

It’s illegal for me to smoke on a bus, too, but it doesn’t stop me from smoking off the bus. And, anyway, shooting rockets from Syria and the Palestinian Authority is illegal, but I don’t hear anybody screaming about that. Get the Hezbollah and Hamas doing legal, then I’ll worry about any illegality of Israel.

It is anti-Jewish hatred, with or without legalities. Like I said, the Jews, not the Palestinians, are the underdogs.

 

[donsnow]

Well, at least you know now that the jews haven’t ‘‘bought’’ Israel.

So I guess you learned something from this well intentioned internationalist.

What makes you think I pay attention to your anti-Jewish propaganda? I’m learning to stand for Israel against a hateful world.

 

[donsnow]

Don’t try to change the subject. The subject is Israel’s use of Palestinian civilians as human shields. We can move on to conditions within Israel after you acknowledge and condemn their use of Palestinian civlians as human shields.

The topic, you thread hi-jacking person, is Israel refusing the Irish ship to land at Gaza. And it seems disingenuous of you to claim your personal agenda as a topic. So, there.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

No law save Kuwait from Saddam Hussien. The United States Armed forces saved Kuwait to forbid their oil reserves to Saddam Hussien.

WHAT!!!

Tu rigoles ou quoi!!!

The United States Armed Forces!!!

It was a COALITION of more than 30 NATIONS !!!

It was mandated by the UN.

On the principles of International Law.

 

[TechieJustin]

Yes, really. And it’s not “capitulation”, it’s “siding with”.

In any event, the source being discussed is the State Department, not Bill O’Reilley or “Keithy”, whoever that might be.

Keith Olbermann.

And so you think AIPAC controls U.S. foreign policy?

Yes. Absolutely.
Pat Buchanan agrees. He calls the US Congress Israel occupied territory.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

So, where is your documented proof?

It is the section I mentioned under the Occupied Territories.

2009

The law, High Court rulings, and an IDF order prohibit Israeli forces from using “human shields,” but the prohibition reportedly was not always observed. When complaints are registered, according to the MOJ, the Investigative Military Police (IMP) open investigations.

According to Amnesty International, Israeli soldiers used civilians, including children, as human shields, endangering their lives by forcing them to remain in or near houses which they took over and used as military positions. Amnesty International also reported that some were forced to carry out dangerous tasks such as inspecting properties. At year’s end the IDF was investigating alleged use of human shields, including in Jabaliya and Beit Lahiya.

2008

Israeli forces are prohibited from using “human shields” by law, High Court rulings, and an IDF order, but the prohibition was not always observed. There was no additional information available in the disciplinary proceedings against Brigadier General Yair Golan who ordered the 2007 operation in which 24-year-old Samah Amira was held at gun point to serve as a human shield as the IDF searched houses in Nablus. In October 2007 IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi initiated a disciplinary proceeding against Brigadier General Yair Golan for authorizing the operation. In 2006 B’Tselem claimed that during an incursion in northern Gaza, IDF soldiers seized control of two buildings and used six residents as human shields. The IDF previously informed B’Tselem that the investigation continued; however, at year’s end there were no developments.

2007

Israeli forces are prohibited from using “human shields” by law, High Court rulings, and an IDF order, but the prohibition was not always observed. On February 25, television broadcasts showed soldiers in Nablus forcing 24-year-old Samah Amira at gun point to serve as a human shield as they searched houses. On October 18, IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenzi initiated a disciplinary proceeding against Brigadier-General Yair Golan for authorizing the operation. In July 2006 B’Tselem claimed that during a July 2006 incursion in northern Gaza, IDF soldiers seized control of two buildings and used six residents as human shields. The IDF informed B’Tselem that investigation was ongoing; however, at year’s end there were no developments.

etc etc

 

[scipio337]

Keith Olbermann.

Yes. Absolutely.
Pat Buchanan agrees. He calls the US Congress Israel occupied territory.

Pat also calls World War II and “unnecessary war”, and that the US should have just let the Soviets and Nazis work it out.

Sorry, Techie, but the whole “AIPAC controls the United States” line is just rehashed Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, conspiratorial navel-gazing. As I pointed out earlier, AIPAC donated $600k during the 2008 election cycle. In comparison, the National Association of Realtors’ PAC donated $4mil. See opensecrets.org. Is there some insidious plot by realtors to control US foriegn policy?

The US has waaaay more control over Isreali policy than they do us.

 

[TechieJustin]

Pat also calls World War II and “unnecessary war”, and that the US should have just let the Soviets and Nazis work it out.

Sorry, Techie, but the whole “AIPAC controls the United States” line is just rehashed Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, conspiratorial navel-gazing. As I pointed out earlier, AIPAC donated $600k during the 2008 election cycle. In comparison, the National Association of Realtors’ PAC donated $4mil. See opensecrets.org. Is there some insidious plot by realtors to control US foriegn policy?

The US has waaaay more control over Isreali policy than they do us.

I agree WW2 was stupid and useless.
and you’re wrong about Israeli policy. Buchanan is right, The US is nothing more than Israel’s patsy. Its disgusting.

 

[scipio337]

I agree WW2 was stupid and useless.
and you’re wrong about Israeli policy. Buchanan is right, The US is nothing more than Israel’s patsy. Its disgusting.

Hey, I guess I’ll just take your word for it!

 

[Brooklyn]

I agree WW2 was stupid and useless.
and you’re wrong about Israeli policy. Buchanan is right, The US is nothing more than Israel’s patsy. Its disgusting.

WWII was stupid and useless? Now we know how way out there you really are. I guess we should have just let Hitler dominate the world, kill all of the Jews, put priests and nuns into concentration camps and kill them and anyone else he deemed “unfit to live”, allowed the Japanese to terrorize and torture the Chinese, etc. We certainly wouldn’t be on the internet right now discussing this because we would be living in a cruel worldwide dictatorship and would have no freedoms whatsoever, if we were even alive.

TechieJustin, I know this is taking the thread way off point, but I would love to know just what kind of world you would like to live in. It certainly isn’t the democracy and freedom of the United States nor that of Israel (and yes, like it or not, Israel is a free democracy, unlike all of its enemies).

Also, what is your solution to the problems between Israel and the Arab world?